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Domestic Drilling

Additional domestic drilling will reduce oil prices


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On a more serious note - Yes, in the short term. It would have to be a large increase to make much impact at all on prices, but it's still a better short-term option than hoping prices on alternate sources drop to be comparable..

I think we'd be better off bombing China and India back to the stone age so they stop boosting global demand. Frankly nothing we can do can stop their voracious increase in demand. Even at a super conservative 1.5% (rather then a realistic 3% to 6%) annual increase for both nations in oil consumption, there's no place put up for oil prices.
 
I think we'd be better off bombing China and India back to the stone age so they stop boosting global demand. Frankly nothing we can do can stop their voracious increase in demand. Even at a super conservative 1.5% (rather then a realistic 3% to 6%) annual increase for both nations in oil consumption, there's no place put up for oil prices.
I suppose it wouldn't work to somehow set it up that none of the oil produced in the USA would be exported?

I have no real knowledge of our production/demand numbers, but I would think that we could, with a boost in production and (if I'm understanding correctly) removal of our oil from the world market, potentially reduce our dependence on imported oil at least somewhat.

I'm not sure if that would be possible, however...I've never looked into this all that much.
 
I suppose it wouldn't work to somehow set it up that none of the oil produced in the USA would be exported?

I have no real knowledge of our production/demand numbers, but I would think that we could, with a boost in production and (if I'm understanding correctly) removal of our oil from the world market, potentially reduce our dependence on imported oil at least somewhat.

I'm not sure if that would be possible, however...I've never looked into this all that much.

Unless you want to make it illegal to buy and sell oil, it won't do anything. And energy independence won't come from domestic drilling. Even liberal estimates put us at only meeting 25% of our oil needs through domestic production.
 
I suppose it wouldn't work to somehow set it up that none of the oil produced in the USA would be exported?

Well, that would just encouraging investment in production to go elsewhere. If you can't sell your oil for the highest price because of export restrictions, then they'd go elsewhere where they don't have such restrictions. Furthermore that would actually drive prices up. I've never heard of an export restriction that didn't rack up prices. Sizable amounts of food commodities right now are high due to export restrictions from Egypt to Russia to Thailand. Rice and Wheat are artificially high as inventory is sitting around isolated from global commodity markets.

I have no real knowledge of our production/demand numbers, but I would think that we could, with a boost in production and (if I'm understanding correctly) removal of our oil from the world market, potentially reduce our dependence on imported oil at least somewhat.

In the short run I suppose, but wouldn't that just cause less imports? After all, if refined products can't be exported, won't extractors send oil to non-restricted refineries? US refineries are exporting refined oil products: What Energy Problem? U.S. Oil Exports Are on the Rise - Yahoo! Finance

I'm not sure if that would be possible, however...I've never looked into this all that much.

I don't see how these help. Export/Import restrictions as I understand history don't reduce prices. Trade barriers rarely do anyways.

Honesty, the best way to reduce oil is to reduce demand. A 10% reduction in US demand would have pretty drastic reductions in price. A 50% would change how Russia behaves. a 70% would get rid of all of the oil backed dictators in the world.
 
I say we move away from oil all together, and focus on new energy sources.
That is a fine idea but currently we need oil to do that and in the interm we can't let our gpovernment bankrupt us in the name of progress. Just the idea being put out for the u.S. to start domestic drilling will lower the current oil prices.
 
That is a fine idea but currently we need oil to do that and in the interm we can't let our gpovernment bankrupt us in the name of progress. Just the idea being put out for the u.S. to start domestic drilling will lower the current oil prices.

So oil traders could reap huge profits by merely starting rumors about impending domestic drilling to buy oil after the drop only to sell it high after prices inevitably rise? That's a good idea to reduce the deficit. The US government leaks ideas to allow more domestic, buys up huge amounts of oil contracts after the price drop and sells when the news that there isn't any new plans reaches the media!
 
So oil traders could reap huge profits by merely starting rumors about impending domestic drilling to buy oil after the drop only to sell it high after prices inevitably rise? That's a good idea to reduce the deficit. The US government leaks ideas to allow more domestic, buys up huge amounts of oil contracts after the price drop and sells when the news that there isn't any new plans reaches the media!
Not reading my post correctly take one more step further when we are actually drilling for oil. This country also has to build the refineries to accommodate the increase, because currently even if we did increase the supply we can only refine a certain amount. It's very simple supply and demand. Now in regards to your statement about buy low and sell high, yep there is some truth to this but then again who are the consumers.
 
Not reading my post correctly take one more step further when we are actually drilling for oil.

But won't actually change anything considering the actual amount added coupled with increased demand. Speculation is largely happening due to the weak dollar. Oil is basically acting as a dollar hedge. Drilling more won't solve that.

This country also has to build the refineries to accommodate the increase, because currently even if we did increase the supply we can only refine a certain amount.

Except that US refined inventories right now are stocked and oil is still super high.

It's very simple supply and demand.

Then by such measure additional US Domestic won't do squat. The additional supply we can bring is tiny compared to the massive growth in demand overseas. Unless we nationalize like Chavez.
 
We need to start at some point, starting in 100 years when we are out of oil is much worse prospect than starting now while we have time.

The problem is we are not in a good position right now.

For example, corn ethanol is causing a rise in food prices which is hurting the economy. (Not to mention that it will be impossible to grow large enough crops to make a substantial amount of corn ethanol)
 
I say we move away from oil all together, and focus on new energy sources.

like magic!


seriously, there is nothing that replaces oil currently on the market. let's lower energy prices while the technology improves to the point where we can have a viable alternative, instead of choosing to keep ourselves poorer.



opening up domestic supply for drilling would be a jobs bonanza - of jobs that pay higher than the national average. It would lower energy prices, it would increase revenues, it would increase growth, and it would help pull us out of this slump. waiting for windmill-driven unicorns to bring us magical 'alternative' energy isn't a strategy, it's a hope that you keep while working on what you have today.

Increasing Domestic supply would become a powerful foreign policy multiplier. It gives us a world in which the US can use it's monopsony position to tell Chavez to get bent, a world in which we can reduce the strategic importance of the Middle East.

Critics point out that it would take time to get the wells up and running, and that current spikes are caused by speculators - they are partially correct. Futures markets serve as predictors of the price of oil in... well, the future. What do you think those "speculators", those futures traders are going to think about the future price of oil if they see that the supply is going to be massively increasing in said future?


Drilling here gives us jobs. It increases wages. It increases revenues in a time in which we are facing a debt crises. It grows the economy at a time when growth is anemic and we desperately need to get on a more sharply upward-curving track. It reduces our need to control the stability of foreign sources, increases our strength vis-a-vie our enemies, and gives America more control over her future.

Those who say America's best days are behind her? They haven't looked around. There are huge ways in which we could explode upward. We just gotta use them.
 
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Of course it will. Putting more oil on the market alters the balance of supply and demand.

Duh.
 
The problem is we are not in a good position right now.

For example, corn ethanol is causing a rise in food prices which is hurting the economy. (Not to mention that it will be impossible to grow large enough crops to make a substantial amount of corn ethanol)

Note that very few of the liberals opposed to "corporate welfare" opposes corn ethanol subsidies.

Even though it makes food more exensive for the poor, and everyone else, the left is not complaining. Clearly they have other reasons for pursuing the policies they do, even as the make noises about "social justice" and other nonsense.
 
like magic!


seriously, there is nothing that replaces oil currently on the market. let's lower energy prices while the technology improves to the point where we can have a viable alternative, instead of choosing to keep ourselves poorer.

You obviously aren't taking into account the environmental cost of getting said energy, nor are you looking at the waste of energy for getting the harder to reach fossil fuels, like the sand oil in Canada, takes like 4x the energy to extract it that it produces (from memory) or fracting for natural gas that destroys water supplies.

Of course it will. Putting more oil on the market alters the balance of supply and demand.

Duh.

It won't make gas go below $3/gallon because of the rate of increase in demand around the rest of the world. All you do is force alternative energy sources to be more expensive by comparison.
 
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So is everyone just going to ignore my previous post about oil sands and how it well sure everyone up of all kinds of views? Oil sands
 
So is everyone just going to ignore my previous post about oil sands and how it well sure everyone up of all kinds of views? Oil sands

No, I mentioned the tar sands. Sure, its profitable, but is it worth the overall cost?

I realize that these sources are "biased", but shift through the bias for the facts

STOP: Stop Tar Sands Operations Permanently
Ellen Cantarow: Energy Is Ugly: Tar Sands Make Their Mark
NEB - Energy Reports - Canada's Oil Sands: Opportunities and Challenges to 2015 - Questions and Answers
Turning tar sands into oil | Energy Bulletin

Natural gas requirements for the oil sands industry are projected to increase substantially during the projected period from 17 million cubic metres (0.6 billion cubic feet) per day in 2003 to a range of 40 to 45 million cubic metres (1.4 to 1.6 billion cubic) feet per day in 2015. In response to higher and more volatile gas prices, producers are seeking ways to reduce their dependence on natural gas as the major sources of energy and hydrogen for their operations.

Yea, that sounds really smart...

The tar sands are mostly mined, but they are pumped, too, after high-pressure steam is injected underground to separate the valuable oily bitumen from the sand, consuming huge amounts of water. Hydrogen is later added to turn it into a synthetic crude.

Thats an awful lot of water waste.

All this is energy intensive, as the equivalent of one barrel of oil is needed to process three barrels of synthetic crude. Production of conventional oil requires much less energy.

I hope that quote is right. Makes it less costly in the long run than I thought.
 
Increasing Domestic supply would become a powerful foreign policy multiplier.

Only if you don't know how commodities markets work.

It gives us a world in which the US can use it's monopsony position to tell Chavez to get bent, a world in which we can reduce the strategic importance of the Middle East.

So no, you don't know. You do realize that Canada is our biggest supplier no? Furthermore, tell me, you support a Chavez like nationalization of American oil? After all, that's the only way to get what you are claiming.

What do you think those "speculators", those futures traders are going to think about the future price of oil if they see that the supply is going to be massively increasing in said future?

Massively? Where are you getting that? Want to see massive? Compound ten years of BRIC oil demand. Then compare to that to any additional supply we bring to market. And then compare to that to likely decline in OPEC to stabilize total oil supply. Prices ain't going nowhere but up.

Drilling here gives us jobs. It increases wages. It increases revenues in a time in which we are facing a debt crises. It grows the economy at a time when growth is anemic and we desperately need to get on a more sharply upward-curving track. It reduces our need to control the stability of foreign sources, increases our strength vis-a-vie our enemies, and gives America more control over her future.

It also keeps us tied into the oil commodity market which benefits Iran, Chavez and Russia. Oh wait. You didn't think about that did you?
 
Um no. When large portions of the buying market aren't buying for their domestic needs due to light trading due to holidays, prices drop.

That is one thing, but only one thing. Speculation is another.
 
That is one thing, but only one thing. Speculation is another.

The dominate drive of cost is demand. Speculation is only slightly increasing the cost of gas, around the +/- 10-15cents/gallon range.
 
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You obviously aren't taking into account the environmental cost of getting said energy

nope. we are overregulated in that regard, not under protected.

nor are you looking at the waste of energy for getting the harder to reach fossil fuels, like the sand oil in Canad

:shrug: if it's not worth the squeeze, then the market either won't pursue it, or will advance the technology to make it so.

It won't make gas go below $3/gallon because of the rate of increase in demand around the rest of the world. All you do is force alternative energy sources to be more expensive by comparison.

hilarious. we won't force the price of gas lower, but the problem is that we will force the price of gas lower.

convince the market that an increase in supply like what we are talking about is coming down the pike... and watch the sell-off begin.
 
nope. we are overregulated in that regard, not under protected.

Of course, thats why people are having their farms destroyed by natural gas drilling :doh



shrug: if it's not worth the squeeze, then the market either won't pursue it, or will advance the technology to make it so.

Markets rarely care about long run circumstances



hilarious. we won't force the price of gas lower, but the problem is that we will force the price of gas lower.

You mis read. I said that it won't cause the price of gas to go lower, but it will keep gas cheaper compared to alternatives for the short run, which prolongs the problem.
 
Only if you don't know how commodities markets work.

what, you mean because they're fungible? how does fungibility change the fact that price (stated simply) is a function of supply and demand?

So no, you don't know. You do realize that Canada is our biggest supplier no?

:) actually I do. and then comes venezuela.

Furthermore, tell me, you support a Chavez like nationalization of American oil?

of course not.

After all, that's the only way to get what you are claiming.

wrong. all I am talking about is the ability to either refuse to import Venezuelan crude (which is a market in which we are a de facto monopsony - we are the only ones with a significant refinery capacity capable of turning that sludge into gasoline - light sweet crude it ain't), and that increasing the percent of oil that comes from other-than-the-ME means that fluctuations in that region will effect the oil market less.

Massively? Where are you getting that?

bringing the full American resources that are available online does represent a massive bump in supply.

Want to see massive? Compound ten years of BRIC oil demand. Then compare to that to any additional supply we bring to market. And then compare to that to likely decline in OPEC to stabilize total oil supply. Prices ain't going nowhere but up.

gosh then I guess we'd better start drilling as soon as possible so that we are positioned to provide a resource whose' demand is guaranteed to go up.

It also keeps us tied into the oil commodity market which benefits Iran, Chavez and Russia. Oh wait. You didn't think about that did you?

it certainly doesn't - not any more than we would or wouldn't have been before. Chavez is more dependent on us than we are on him. Iran and Russia benefit more from being suppliers of a rarer commodity - we become a major supplier, we reduce their market share, we reduce their benefit. Russia wants to play games with Eastern Europe? :) US companies can speed up production and help ya'll out with that.

windmills and solar replacing Oil in the near future is a pipe dream; at the very least (assuming at some point something will replace oil - something always does) while we are waiting for the tech to get there we should do what we can to keep us growing in the here and now. choosing not to exploit our reserves is the economic equivalent of shooting ourselves in the foot. It slows us down and allows others to pass us for no particularly good reason.
 
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