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Is Raising Revenue More Important Than Raising Tax Rates?

What Should the Government Focus On, Raising Revenue or Tax Rates?

  • Revenues

    Votes: 22 91.7%
  • Tax Rate

    Votes: 2 8.3%

  • Total voters
    24
Not about points, buddy, it was just showing everyone you didn't know what your were talking about...



Why do you avoid to addressing any of the points I made and default to your usual talking points?



Saying the President is trying to 'screw over' someone is beyond stupid--an ignorant thought process that is dragging our country back to the brink.

And, again you seem incapable of understanding the issues -- hedge funds pay earn returns. Capital gains.

W. gave the managers a loophole tax break, alas, no more...


why would a net tax consumer assume he knows more about taxes than someone who actually pays them?

your president tries to appeal to the envious, the spiteful and the slothful by claiming that the rich need to pay even more taxes. He buys your votes by telling you he will give you more and more handouts and OTHERS will have to foot the bill.

We give most americans tax breaks. Most americans don't pay close to what their share of the tax bill is
 
you know, it suddenly occurs to me. when we cut spending in the 40's after WWII, Keyensians screamed up and down that we were going to see massive losses to the economy; just like you are doing now.

Odd, isn't it, how the models are always wrong, yet they never get questioned? It's like a weird faith in the Omniscience of Government.

that is because what really motivates them is class warfare and buying the votes of the envious rather than sound economics. winning elections is what matters because having their people in power improves their personal economics
 
Raise the rates and you raise the revenues, lower the rate and you lower revenues. Not rocket science. Only math.
that is a rather specious claim

in some cases raising taxes raises revenues. In other cases it lowers revenues

example-the clinton luxury tax hike

you also do not understand that raising taxes can have other deleterious results such as people avoiding such taxes, or moving away from high tax jurisdictions

so your claim is a total fail
 
Raise the rates and you raise the revenues, lower the rate and you lower revenues. Not rocket science. Only math.

Not the GOP's strong suit.

Unfunded wars and prescription drug program + Tax Cuts for wealthy = - Trillions...

Thanks W.
 
that is a rather specious claim

in some cases raising taxes raises revenues. In other cases it lowers revenues

example-the clinton luxury tax hike

you also do not understand that raising taxes can have other deleterious results such as people avoiding such taxes, or moving away from high tax jurisdictions

so your claim is a total fail
When Clinton left office we were getting close to reducing our debt, so Bush said he wanted to give back the surplus that Clinton, he increase the debt by giving tax breaks to everyone - that INCREASED the debt.
 
When Clinton left office we were getting close to reducing our debt, so Bush said he wanted to give back the surplus that Clinton, he increase the debt by giving tax breaks to everyone - that INCREASED the debt.

Lowering capital gains partially caused the mortgage bubble.

**The markets get flooded with new money...

**Bankers have to invent new 'products' - mortgage backed securities MBS

**This floods lenders with new money, they push mortgage brokers to find more homebuyers...

--remember the mortgage broker gets his payment no matter what happens to the paper...

**despite what the pundits say, the investment houses packaging the MBS put more pressure on mortgage brokers than CRA--supply and demand.
 
When Clinton left office we were getting close to reducing our debt, so Bush said he wanted to give back the surplus that Clinton, he increase the debt by giving tax breaks to everyone - that INCREASED the debt.

wrong-spending created the deficit
 
that is because what really motivates them is class warfare and buying the votes of the envious rather than sound economics. winning elections is what matters because having their people in power improves their personal economics

no, i think he really believes it - i tend more here to blame the temptation of the pretense of knowledge and power.
 
When Clinton left office we were getting close to reducing our debt, so Bush said he wanted to give back the surplus that Clinton, he increase the debt by giving tax breaks to everyone - that INCREASED the debt.

interesting claim. how much did revenue drop as a percentage of GDP under Bush after those tax cuts?
 
Raise the rates and you raise the revenues, lower the rate and you lower revenues. Not rocket science. Only math.


well, i never claimed to be good at math.


i am good at history:


11-30-10-Hausers-law.gif




historically it seems your claim that higher rates will equal higher revenues doesn't hold much water.
 
well, i never claimed to be good at math.


i am good at history:


11-30-10-Hausers-law.gif




historically it seems your claim that higher rates will equal higher revenues doesn't hold much water.

so what does that graph tell you CPwill

About tax rates on the rich, the middle class, the poor?

If the top marginal tax rate is decreasing while tax revenue for the federal government remains generally fairly stable, what does it mean

Generally it would indicate a couple of things

A probable increase in the number of people paying the top marginal rate, and that sources of government revenue outside of income taxes has most likely increased
 
:lol: hilarious. you really can't draw a connection between the Government taking less money from the private sector, and the private sector having more money, can you? :)

Hilarious. You really can't draw a connection between how demand impacts an economy can you? :)

Btw, your notions of taxation = theft make you look like an idiot.

And you seem to be highly unaware of the basic reality that businesses don't invest if they don't have good projects.

Congrads. You just said the stupidest thing of your career here. And detailed just how ignorant you are of economic history.
 
i am good at history

Your posts suggest otherwise. Particularly how you did not understand how releasing private demand backed by private wealth can subsitute for a drop in government spending is not the same as how massive decline in private demand cannot subsitute for a decline in government spending.

You did just argue that the time after WWII is comparable to right now. Not a sign you are good at history.
 
Hilarious. Btw, your notions of taxation = theft make you look like an idiot.

.

Only to those who worship more government taking more money to buy the votes of people who want more government but aren't willing to pay for it. I know who looks like an idiot with his position on taxation and it sure isn't cpwill
 
As the wealthy and "wealthier" provide for all the jobs, they should not have to pay any tax at all, nor should anyone, for that matter. We can just regress to the times of land barons and slaves - millenia ago..
This seems to be the direction the conservatives are taking us ( or trying to)...
 
Fixed. Does the sun go down because the street lights turn on?

Why does every ****hole in this country have a Democrat at the helm.......and has had a Democrat at the helm--for DECADES?

At the same time the government expanded spending. Or are you going to be worthless partisan hack and ignore that? We know for a fact that government spending boosts activity. Do we have a period of time where we don't have that factor?

I do believe PORKULUS--The Largest Spending Bill in History..... is the most expensive example of how Government Spending clearly doesnt benefit an economy.......and more often than not......acts as a detriment.

Which is your answer because you can't find one.

If you understood statistics (which you clearly do not), you would understand why I am asking. Isolate factors. Ponder that for a change.

Federal Tax Revenue AFTER The Bush Tax Cuts
usgs_linephptitleTotalDirectRevenueyear2003_2007snameUSunitsbbar0stack1sizemcolcspending0178231_188011_215361_240687_2567.png



Federal Tax Revenue AFTER The Reagan Tax Cuts
usgs_linephptitleTotalDirectRevenueyear1982_1988snameUSunitsbbar0stack1sizemcolcspending061777_60056_66644_73404_76916_85429_909.png


Federal Tax Revenue AFTER The JFK/Johnson Tax Cuts
usgs_linephptitleTotalDirectRevenueyear1964_1970snameUSunitsbbar0stack1sizemcolcspending011261_11682_13084_14882_15297_18688_192.png


........you Libtards do want MORE REVENUE right?
.
.
.
.
 
so what does that graph tell you CPwill

About tax rates on the rich, the middle class, the poor?

well, the graph doesn't tell us this - but it is telling considering that when people talk about raising taxes in order to raise revenues - they are (usually) talking about raising taxes on the wealthy (those evil small business owners, etc). So it's worth pointing out that higher taxes on the wealthy hasn't really produced more revenue for us in the past - and that there is an argument to be made that it has produced worse.

Federal-Personal-Income-Tax-Collections.JPG


again, looking backwards, we see the effect of punitive rates.

however, if it eases your worries, I can inform you that middle and lower tax rates moved in concert with the upper ones - and that all tax rates dramatically being reduced still did not move our revenue off of the historical average range.

now, if revenues were a function of rates - then that would be just about impossible.

If the top marginal tax rate is decreasing while tax revenue for the federal government remains generally fairly stable, what does it mean

Generally it would indicate a couple of things

A probable increase in the number of people paying the top marginal rate

well that is true. lowering rates generally increases growth, which means wealth-building. it also reduces the incentive for avoidance.

and that sources of government revenue outside of income taxes has most likely increased

actually - as I understand it - the percentage paid by income taxes (and the related payroll tax) has increased, also,just as the percent of revenues paid by the highest-earners has also increased, even as their rates fell.
 
You really can't draw a connection between how demand impacts an economy can you?

let us say that I am better at that than you are at realizing that government expenditures represent money that had to come from somewhere.

Btw, your notions of taxation = theft make you look like an idiot.

a fascinating statement. Do i look as much like an idiot as you do for claiming that I have argued that taxation = theft?

And you seem to be highly unaware of the basic reality that businesses don't invest if they don't have good projects

business doesn't invest unless they think they have good projects; and they want the good projects, they seek out the good projects because that will make them lots of money.

politicians, on the other hand, don't care if the recipient of their largess is a good project.

:) which is why (well, it's one of many reasons why) private spending and investment is superior to public spending and investment.

and it's also why (well, it's one of many reasons why) the "oh we can stimulate demand through spending" artists are always so wrong in their predictions - because they fail to take into account opportunity costs.


:lol: but i'm sure what will get us out of high unemployment is more spending studying robot bees. that's sure to do the trick! And studies on the habits of homosexual emo left -handed syrian youth!
 
As the wealthy and "wealthier" provide for all the jobs, they should not have to pay any tax at all, nor should anyone, for that matter. We can just regress to the times of land barons and slaves - millenia ago..
This seems to be the direction the conservatives are taking us ( or trying to)...

that's rather silly but its the lefties who want barons death taxes and high income taxes provide insulation for the uber rich and prevent hard working and frugal people with high salaries from becoming truly rich.

as to slaves-again that is the left. if you are a tax payer in states with massive income taxes you spend half of your working hours working for the government. If you don't pay income taxes you are enslaved by the addiction of entitlement.

most conservatives I know want people to be independent and responsible for their own upkeep. we don't want slaves-we don't want teat sucklers we have to pay for. its you lefties who want massive numbers of people controlled by big brother
 
Your posts suggest otherwise. Particularly how you did not understand how releasing private demand backed by private wealth can subsitute for a drop in government spending is not the same as how massive decline in private demand cannot subsitute for a decline in government spending.

You did just argue that the time after WWII is comparable to right now. Not a sign you are good at history.

:) actually I pointed to the early 20's and post-WWII. both are good examples, and for good reason.

1. in 1920 we saw a massive market crash - that was nearly as severe peak-to-trough as the one that would kick off the great depression later (sound familiar)? The government was running a huge deficit (sound familiar?) and millions were thrown out of work (sound familiar?). Did the government "stimulate demand" by taking money out of the productive sectors of the economy and pouring it into the unproductive ones? no, the poor fools in government didn't understand the intricacies of the economy, and so they just reduced taxes and reduced spending. Keynesians, of course, would have howled at such a scheme - and used many neat little charts to prove how, with rising unemployment, demand was already lowering, and lowering government spending as well would surely spend the economy into a tailspin as no one bought.... Instead we saw rapidly dropping unemployment rates, rapidly rising economic growth, the creation of the middle class, and a budget surplus. the peacetime unemployment rate they achieved hasn't been matched since.

2. WWII: we had just spent a decade and a half in the depression known as Great, when - according to the Administration's own Secretary of the Treasury - the government had spent unprecedented gobs of money attempting to "create demand", all of it to no effect. It turns out that the awesome strategy of taking resources from the productive sectors of society and pouring it into the unproductive ones worked out less well than they had hoped, and hiking taxes in order to pay for it all hadn't helped, either. During WWII we had deprived our citizenry of basic goods, forcing them into austerity through rationing in order to divert preciously rare resources (such as foodstuffs and rubber) to the military. Lots' of good ole wealth-building there.

And after WWII, what happened? Well, the push was to immediately curb the huge deficit spending (sound familiar?), which - it was claimed - was unsustainable and unnecessary (sound familiar?). And how did people like you respond? Well, Keynesians (up and down) swore (up and down) that reducing the massive deficit spending would reduce aggregate demand and send us back into the economic shambles from which we were just then recovering (sound familiar?).

and you know what? they were wrong then too. :)

just like they were wrong (again) when they swore up and down that a stimulus package in 2008 would "jump start" the economy.

just like they were wrong (again) when they swore up and down that a bigger stimulus package in 2009 would keep us below 8% unemployment...

and so on and so forth :)

Keynesian Predictions v American History. The record for you folks isn't pretty.


You know what the definition of insanity is, OC?

It's making the same mistake every time, but thinking you will get a different result.



But, hey, I'm a sporting fellow - and I do enjoy a chance to learn more about history. So please; regale me with even a single time in modern history that reducing government spending has caused the economy to collapse due to the reduced aggregate demand.



......I'll wait...... :)
 
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darn ole American History:


...During the 1920s, the U.S. slashed government spending and achieved budget surpluses each year of the decade. We started that decade with 11.7 percent unemployment in 1921, but from 1923 to 1929 the U.S. averaged 3.3 percent unemployment, and the nation had rapid economic growth. In 1945, right after World War II, the U.S. again sharply slashed federal spending and we again had strong economic expansion and 3.9 percent unemployment in 1946 and 1947.

By contrast, during the 1970s, the U.S. increased government spending and the result was stagflation during both the Nixon and Carter presidencies. In the 1930s, the U.S. desperately threw dollars at unemployment and we doubled the national debt from 1931 to 1939; but in 1939 we still had 19 to 21 percent unemployment much of the year. President Obama has copied much of the New Deal spending pattern in the last two years and unemployment has actually increased...
 
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