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Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

Would you give up your Social Security?


  • Total voters
    45
This is a great example of a good conservative argument... i like, just the problem is there are a lot of people that just want to break that system to it's very core; people try to get away as far as possible from the "the son bears the sins of the father" deal... people want to be absolute individuals where family doesnt really exist or play a part in it's original way, because there are f'd up families out there... But i think this way of thinking actually makes it worse then actually better( looking at other cultures like Japan)... idk im borderline conservative in this fashion.

I think the reason you see so many screwed up families now, too, is because the incentives to be good to family are also deteriorating. When grandma isn't in a position of needing to maintain good relations with the kids after they grow up because the dependancy and need for them isn't there anymore, of course little petty differences grow and take a life of their own. Children stray from their parents sooner and parents let them do it more easily. Bonds that were necessary now break with ease and a culture of hyper individuality is emerging in the absence of strong family values.
 
Vance I agree with alot of your post, but theres something your forgetting the middleclass paid taxs all their lives too and what they paid in taxs HURT THEM just as much as the wealthiests taxpayers who paid more its all relative.
We are in debt no doubt we need to cut spending no doubt we need to cut entitlements I agree..we DO NOT NEED TO eliminate most of the wealthiest americans tax burden and put it on the middle class....because the POOR cant pay.
You cant eliminate or change the numbers...the rich have gotten fabulously richer while paying taxs and the working class has stagnated...now the teaparty wants mOAR and mOAR ...enough of the whining please

IPast...the reality is that a great majority pay very little in taxes to support this country. Frankly, the class warfare thing annoys the piss out of me. Ive busted my ass to succeed. I dont begrudge those that have more than me but Im very tired of all the people that whine about how unfair their life is. I didnt fall into wealth...I busted my ass for 30 years planning for this point.

The rich get rich...and many poor and low to middle income people get rich as well. Hard work. Personal responsibility. Oh how I wish they would teach THAT in school instead of all the mindless social handwringing and bull****.

You do get that the 'tax cuts' do not mean that the rich pay no taxes but that they pay a lower percentage of taxes than they paid before...right? They still pay for those programs...many of which they will never use. Seriously...look up who actually pays for what in this country.
 
I essentially divide Social Security proponents into 4 categories:

1) Old and scared - These are the Baby Boomers and older people who bought into the lies and propaganda that "the government is stealing your money" and "they just want you to die quickly and cheaply". It's rather annoying, because even the most staunchly conservative or radical opponents of Social Security have no intention of denying people who have paid into the system their whole lives from getting back their due. It's basically the left-wing performing sensationalism and fear tactics.

2) Uneducated - These are the people who, quite frankly, know jack about the system and how it works. They're the ones who don't know that it was part of a socialist system by, in my opinion, THE worst American president by far: Captain NewDeal. When this was proposed 80ish years ago, the magic age was 65. Today's magic age? 65. The difference, you might ask? Today's average American life span is 77 years. In the early 30s? 62. This was designed to cover people who, essentially, "beat the system" by outliving the mean average. This is why back in those days there was a 16:1 ratio of pay-in to pay-out, and today it's less than 4:1. The vast majority of people who collect Social Security were not originally designed to be collectors in the system when it was implemented. It's an example of Keynesian economics run amok to a detrimental level.

3) Fiscally irresponsible - These are the people who worship at the altar of Big Government, think they know what is best for them and everyone else, and is more than willing to blindly hand over money because they think they can do it better. Track records have shown that, clearly, they can't. It's not hard to pick up the phone and call a financial expert, head down to the bank and grab a low-risk CD, or just do 5 minutes of research to find something to invest in. They'd rather slave away, numb from the head up, and wait for Big Brother to make all their decisions.

4) Lazy - These are people who just refuse to do a little bit of homework and want other horses to pull the cart. They may not trust the government, but they don't have the willpower, common sense, or the balls to stand up and do what it takes. Much like the fiscally irresponsible, they just give over money to the giant con-artists in Washington and cross their fingers that they know what's best.

Quite frankly, I've never seen any argument supporting Social Security that cannot be tucked into one or more of these brief explanations.
 
I find it amazing that people on this board can continuously call social security a pension

that is how people treat it. and they don't save because of it.

when the AVERAGE payout is 1,177.00, thats average which means just as many GET LESS than get more

yup. what a well-run program, eh?

I also find it incredible that so many of the richer americans on this forum cant even REALIZE that there are people that cannot survive without that little bit of SS and medicare

actually i think imagep and myself have demonstrated how anyone can retire with financial independence for about 40 bucks a week.

if people depend on those programs (and they do), then that is because they failed to properly plan for themselves, not - generally - because of circumstances outside of their control.

however, you are correct that current retirees depend on them, and that is why I'm glad that the Ryan Budget (in contrast to the Presidents' "plan") doesn't effect current retirees. or even anyone over the age of 55.

this gives those of us 55 and below the ability to plan in surer knowledge of what will be available when we retire.

and I cant believe that there are so many miserable self centered rich americans that cant REALIZE that the working poor and lower middle class workes...Walmart type workers DO NOT make enough money to save for their retirements and health benefits and still by lifes necessities

actually they do. I was doing it when I rated foodstamps, with a wife and a bouncing new baby boy. it's called "living within your means", "staying out of debt" and "using a budget".
 
Since social security will be bankrupt by the time I reach 65 (Im 26 now) providing I make it that far which I probably wont, I would give up social security. Obviously a refund would be impossible but I have no problem with cutting my losses and moving on.
 
14...lying or ignorant...you are on a tear today arent you?

Heres the basic reality. Every person that has worked has been forced under the threat of prison to pay taxes. Those taxes were not collected just for the operation of the country and spent by a responsible governing body. Those taxes TAKEN without say by citizens of the country were obligated to certain programs for people 'own good' whether they like them or not. Now you would suggest that people that have a reasonable expectation to receive back those funds which have been taken from them are hypocrites because even though they oppose government social programs they wont give up any claim to THEIR OWN MONEY which was taken from them for said programs. Its kind of a silly position to take, Lib...

You start out by claiming that you are going to teach Liblady something..........

Heres the basic reality

What follows that is the worst sort of right wing fantasy/nightmare that bears no relationship at all to reality.

1- the people of the USA elect representatives to run government for them and make the decisions of government for them.
2- part of those decisions were to levy taxes and spend the revenue collected and borrow if necessary to spend more
3- any time the citizens object to this methodology they can replace the duly elected representatives with others who are more to their liking
4- they can even run themselves
5- or they can exercise the ultimate in free market choices and withdraw their consent altogether and move somewhere else just like the immigrants to this nation did

and you call Liblady silly?!?!?!?!
 
I find it amazing that people on this board can continuously call social security a pension

Not a pension, an investment, a great investment for me. I've already gotten back ten times more than I put in, and still growing every month.

ricksfolly
 
Just a side note...for all those that say they cant save for their future...

A cell phone on the cheapest carrier with basic texting services is going to run about 600.00 a year.
Smoke a half a pack a day (10 smokes) costs about $730 a year.
Buy only 4 video games a year (a slacker staple) and you will pay about $160
Cut out alcohol and junk food and you save about $500 a year
Those tattoos arent really worth the $50-$400 (unless you are having a buddy do them)
Kill the internet...thats going to save you at LEAST $180.00a year
Basic cable...what...another $250 a year.

Now...I will grant you that not everyone incurs those costs, but you tell me HONESTLY if those arent average and very reasonable expenses many have...even low income folks...and from the anecdotal notebook...those expenses are VERY common with many of the people we see in our ERs and BHUs on a regular basis. Oh...they cant pay for insurance...they cant pay their rent or take care of their family responsibilities, or put anything away for their future...but they can manage to pay for all of those things and usually much more. Thats $2470 a year on the LOW end...most people pay a helluva lot more for cable, internet, phone, cig's and alcohol. Its amazing what people can afford when they assess their priorities and take responsibility for their lives.
 
You start out by claiming that you are going to teach Liblady something..........



What follows that is the worst sort of right wing fantasy/nightmare that bears no relationship at all to reality.

1- the people of the USA elect representatives to run government for them and make the decisions of government for them.
2- part of those decisions were to levy taxes and spend the revenue collected and borrow if necessary to spend more
3- any time the citizens object to this methodology they can replace the duly elected representatives with others who are more to their liking
4- they can even run themselves
5- or they can exercise the ultimate in free market choices and withdraw their consent altogether and move somewhere else just like the immigrants to this nation did

and you call Liblady silly?!?!?!?!

Good Lord...Whats pathetic is that you wasted...what...ten minutes of your life sticking your nose in someone else's business and THAT weak ass retort is the best that you can come up with.
 

ah yes. the magic of people believing that we don't have $17 trillion in spare cash sitting around now will make it become a reality.


but if we all just really believed and clicked our heels three times and repeated the words "there are no unfunded liabilities, there are no unfunded liabilities, the baby boomers are not about to retire, the baby boomers are not about to retire" then we will all be transported into a wonder kingdom where these things are true, and sunshine kittens will bring us candy giggles and baby smiles!
 
ah yes. the magic of people believing that we don't have $17 trillion in spare cash sitting around now will make it become a reality.


but if we all just really believed and clicked our heels three times and repeated the words "there are no unfunded liabilities, there are no unfunded liabilities, the baby boomers are not about to retire, the baby boomers are not about to retire" then we will all be transported into a wonder kingdom where these things are true, and sunshine kittens will bring us candy giggles and baby smiles!

If things get too bad we start a war. With somebody that has a lot of oil. And then somebody with lots of fertile land. "You're not gonna kill those magnificent whales!" And then somebody with lots of seafood.

Next thing we're all fat only worried about looking our best.
 
If things get too bad we start a war. With somebody that has a lot of oil. And then somebody with lots of fertile land. "You're not gonna kill those magnificent whales!" And then somebody with lots of seafood.

Next thing we're all fat only worried about looking our best.

we're already fat. and we could invade china, sell off all of her natural resources, put her people into slavery, and do it without spending a dime, and still not have anything like the money we would need to meet our liabilities.
 
ah yes. the magic of people believing that we don't have $17 trillion in spare cash sitting around now will make it become a reality.


but if we all just really believed and clicked our heels three times and repeated the words "there are no unfunded liabilities, there are no unfunded liabilities, the baby boomers are not about to retire, the baby boomers are not about to retire" then we will all be transported into a wonder kingdom where these things are true, and sunshine kittens will bring us candy giggles and baby smiles!

Where do I sign up for candy giggles and baby smiles?
Do they come from SS too? :lol:
 
:D whereas what we see is a bunch of hippy boomers who didn't save for their own selves, and so want to foist the costs of their extravagant lifestyles off on us.



actually, one way or the other, it is. the question is whether we reform it ourselves in a manner of our choosing, or whether our creditors alter it as they see fit, our desires bedammed.



:D or wait for ya'll to get too old to read your pill labels :D
I don't see myself as having ever lived an extravagant lifestyle. You seem to have heard of Hippies, yet no one told you that we shun material possessions? OK, fine, you're just a young pup.

I don't really have a problem with having supported the Greatest Generation's retirement, just to have the Gen-Ys turn a cold shoulder towards me. My life has always been like this, c'est-la-vie pup.
 
I'am 40. I'am willing to give up my social security, based upon the current SS witholdings being placed into a private account. Preferably a 401K type.

Do you want the back you paid into it?
 
Do you want the back you paid into it?

I certainly would, it's my money, paid into an investment account. If I close the account, I get back the money inside. The idea that I should pay into it for 30+ years and then throw away that investment is idiotic.
 
Give it back, phase it out.
 
VanceMack said:
Just a side note...for all those that say they cant save for their future...

A cell phone on the cheapest carrier with basic texting services is going to run about 600.00 a year.
Smoke a half a pack a day (10 smokes) costs about $730 a year.
Buy only 4 video games a year (a slacker staple) and you will pay about $160
Cut out alcohol and junk food and you save about $500 a year
Those tattoos arent really worth the $50-$400 (unless you are having a buddy do them)
Kill the internet...thats going to save you at LEAST $180.00a year
Basic cable...what...another $250 a year.

The funny thing is that they wouldn't even have to give up those creature comforts. By privatizing Social Security, everyone's paychecks would grow by that much. All they would have to do is tuck away the difference between old paycheck and new paycheck, and they would see absolutely no chance in average daily life.

I mean, it's not like this money just disappears in a puff of smoke. Then again, it is the government. Nobody can know for sure.
 
Where do I sign up for candy giggles and baby smiles?
Do they come from SS too? :lol:

yes. unless those evil republicans who are trying to murder your grandmother and your teenage daughter steal them and give them to the Koch brothers.
 
Do you want the back you paid into it?

HAH, i wish; but that money is long gone - spent. we can't get it "back" simply because the government doesn't have it anymore. better to just cut our losses and run.
 
I certainly would, it's my money, paid into an investment account

given that this is precisely not the way Social Security works at all, but rather is organized along the lines of a ponzi scheme, where your money was immediately paid out first to current retirees and then to pork barrel projects, how do you figure?
 
given that this is precisely not the way Social Security works at all, but rather is organized along the lines of a ponzi scheme, where your money was immediately paid out first to current retirees and then to pork barrel projects, how do you figure?

This is not a birther issue were you can continually restate BS and have people buy into it, SS is not a hand out nor is it as you state a ponzi scheme, but go ahead and get your party to run on a plank that includes the reduction and or the elimination of SS benefits.

I think we are seeing a repeat of the same tactics that worked to keep the republicans out of office in 2008, the republicans left the economy in such a mess that they wanted to lose in 2008 and it appears that they do not want to win in 2012. Why else would they support off shoring, alienate the unions, suggest reducing medicare and medicad benefits and talk about eliminating or reducing SS
 
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