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Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

  • Total voters
    52
True, they do trend to be socialists.
Good?
Bad?
Your three examples, Jerry, are they all bad ?
Too bad you did not live in the "good old days".
I believe I did.
 
how long is this lack of pride going to go on? You should have pride to be a good citizen. Was that the question?
 
sazerac said:
how long is this lack of pride going to go on? You should have pride to be a good citizen. Was that the question?
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an indeterminate amount of time.

Yes that was the question.
 
Apocalypse said:
IMO being a good citizen means not breaking the law and paying your debts for society. (taxes etc.)

The rest is more of being a good person, and that's quite the relative term there.
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Personally? I am o.k. with people breaking some of the B.S. laws in this country: like legal adults doing drugs and prostitution as someone doing those things does not make them a bad citizen. It simply makes them breaking laws that should have been done away with years and years ago:)
 
Kali said:
Personally? I am o.k. with people breaking some of the B.S. laws in this country: like legal adults doing drugs and prostitution as someone doing those things does not make them a bad citizen. It simply makes them breaking laws that should have been done away with years and years ago:)
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Yeah, goodness knows, when I think of a good citizen, my mind goes right to drug addicted pimps. :mrgreen:


Don't be mad Kali, I just had to give you a little **** for that.
 
I think "taking pride" in one's country is a silly idea (much like being proud of one's race, or ethnicity, it is a product of chance unless you are a foreign-born naturalized citizen). Being proud of America/proud to be an American, and loving America are two different things.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
I think "taking pride" in one's country is a silly idea (much like being proud of one's race, or ethnicity, it is a product of chance unless you are a foreign-born naturalized citizen). Being proud of America/proud to be an American, and loving America are two different things.
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Of course, I totally disagree that it's silly. I certainly do take pride in many things this country does and what it stands for. Like when we had the discussion about banning the burning of the Quran. I'm proud that we have such a dedication to free speech. Not every country does. :)
 
X Factor said:
Of course, I totally disagree that it's silly. I certainly do take pride in many things this country does and what it stands for. Like when we had the discussion about banning the burning of the Quran. I'm proud that we have such a dedication to free speech. Not every country does. :)
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I think this merits further discussion of the definition of pride, what it means to be proud, and what types of situations deserve pride. I personally think pride should be reserved for personal achievements. I think it's great that America has such strong dedication to first Amendment rights, and that's one of the reasons I LOVE my country. But am I proud of that? That's a different question entirely. As an individual, I personally had little involvement in America's strong tradition of dedication to 1st Amendment rights and free speech/expression. I don't think "pride" is a word that accurately describes my feelings about it.
 
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The answer is no. Personally, I love my country but am not always happy about things done in its name. There are people who do not love their country, are not proud of their country, and disagree with their government but are still "good citizens" in that they obey the law, even those they disagree with, maintain their civic obligations, and conduct themselves in a legal and moral (subjective, I know... but I'm going with the basics, don't steal, defraud, harm others, etc.) manner.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I think this merits further discussion of the definition of pride, what it means to be proud, and what types of situations deserve pride. I personally think pride should be reserved for personal achievements. I think it's great that America has such strong dedication to first Amendment rights, and that's one of the reasons I LOVE my country. But am I proud of that? That's a different question entirely. As an individual, I personally had little involvement in America's strong dedication to 1st Amendment rights and free speech/expression. I don't think "pride" is a word that accurately describes my feelings about it.
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But it does accurately describe mine. Haven't you ever been proud of someone else, a family member or friend maybe, for something they accomplished?
 
Kind of silly really. What does being a good citizen have to do with being proud of anything? A humble man can be as good a citizen as any patriotic loud mouth braggart.
 
X Factor said:
But it does accurately describe mine. Haven't you ever been proud of someone else, a family member or friend maybe, for something they accomplished?
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Not really, no, unless I played a role in helping them accomplish what they did. I think my parents have often been proud of my personal accomplishments because they played a role in shaping my upbringing and helping me achieve what I have achieved.
 
Blackdog said:
Kind of silly really. What does being a good citizen have to do with being proud of anything? A humble man can be as good a citizen as any patriotic loud mouth braggart.
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I agree; however are humility and pride necessarily mutually exclusive?
 
Blackdog said:
Kind of silly really. What does being a good citizen have to do with being proud of anything? A humble man can be as good a citizen as any patriotic loud mouth braggart.
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Pride is not necessarily the antithesis to humble, and it also doesn't mean "loud mouth braggart" either. In fact, it's usually the "braggarts" who are, underneath all the bravado, insecure.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I agree; however are humility and pride necessarily mutually exclusive?
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Of course not.

I am part of the latter by the way. I am a patriotic loud mouth braggart. Of course this in no way means people far more humble than I are any less good citizens.

Again to think "pride" is somehow needed to be a good citizen is just silly.
 
X Factor said:
Pride is not necessarily the antithesis to humble, and it also doesn't mean "loud mouth braggart" either. In fact, it's usually the "braggarts" who are, underneath all the bravado, insecure.
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Or they are just loud moth braggarts like myself. And yes humble is the polar opposite of prideful. You don't need to be proud of any nation to be a good citizen.

Again, silly.
 
Blackdog said:
Of course not.

I am part of the latter by the way. I am a patriotic loud mouth braggart. Of course this in no way means people far more humble than I are any less good citizens.

Again to think "pride" is somehow needed to be a good citizen is just silly.
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Pay your taxes, obey the law, vote, become a part of your community and actively work to make the lives of those around you better. I think that's the epitome of what it means to be a good citizen.
 
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X Factor said:
Ah well, I can't dictate your feelings any more than you can dictate mine, silly as they may seem to you.
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I'll put it this way: I'm very patriotic, I love my country. But I think the concept of national pride is silly because honestly I, personally, have played an extremely insignificant role in shaping the country that America is today, and what makes it a great country. In my opinion, it's pretty much the same situation as being proud of one's race. Asian pride? Black pride? Just what is there to be proud of? I'm Asian. Why should I be proud of that fact? It's a result of happenstance. Me being born with yellow skin was pretty much the luck of the draw. I had nothing to do with the Chinese invention of paper, or gunpowder, of whatever other achievements Asians as a whole have accomplished. Should an individual black person be proud of the fact that black people, as a whole, produce some ridiculous basketball players? I don't think so.

Personally, I think such pride of the type that I described above results from a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. Like I said before, I love my country and I am patriotic. But I don't think being proud of one's country is really all that logical; I hope u can understand where I'm coming from.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
I'll put it this way: I'm very patriotic, I love my country. But I think the concept of national pride is silly because honestly I, personally, have played an extremely insignificant role in shaping the country that America is today, and what makes it a great country. In my opinion, it's pretty much the same situation as being proud of one's race. Asian pride? Black pride? Just what is there to be proud of? I'm Asian. Why should I be proud of that fact? It's a result of happenstance. I had nothing to do with the Chinese invention of paper, or gunpowder, of whatever other achievements Asians as a whole have accomplished. Should an individual black person be proud of the fact that black people, as a whole, produce some ridiculous basketball players? I don't think so.

Personally, I think such pride of the type that I described above results from a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. Like I said before, I love my country and I am patriotic. But I don't think being proud of one's country is really all that logical; I hope u can understand where I'm coming from.
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Sure, what's not to understand? You think I have a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. How could I possibly take that personally or misunderstand that?




Ok, I'm totally messing with you. This is just another thing we're going to have to agree to disagree on before you go on to tell me that feeling proud for something or someone else is a sign of mental disease or something. :mrgreen:
 
X Factor said:
Sure, what's not to understand? You think I have a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. How could I possibly take that personally or misunderstand that?




Ok, I'm totally messing with you. This is just another thing we're going to have to agree to disagree on before you go on to tell me that feeling proud for something or someone else is a sign of mental disease or something. :mrgreen:
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You know I'll always respect your opinion. :2razz:

But I just want to dig into this issue a bit further because I think it's a healthy discussion to have. I think most of us can agree that racial pride is a concept that doesn't make a whole lot of sense (other posters, feel free to disagree with me on this one). My question is, if that doesn't make sense, how is national pride any different?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Personally, I think such pride of the type that I described above results from a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. Like I said before, I love my country and I am patriotic. But I don't think being proud of one's country is really all that logical; I hope u can understand where I'm coming from.
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I agree with this to a certain extent. Benedict Anderson, a political theorist, defined nations as "imagined communities" because most members of nations have not met one another, so their sense of unity is based on an image they form of their fellow nation members as opposed to one they would form from face-to-face interaction.

National pride reminds of this - most of us haven't had a substantial role in creating our nations and none of us know the people whom we take pride in being a nation with. National pride is all based on an idea that may or may not exist - the idea that "being American" means something more than the idea you have of it in your head.
 
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theplaydrive said:
I agree with this to a certain extent. Benedict Anderson, a political theorist, defined nations as "imagined communities" because most members of nations have not met one another, so their sense of unity is based on an image they form of their fellow nation members as opposed to one they would form from face-to-face interaction.

National pride reminds of this - most of us haven't had a substantial role in creating our nations and none of us know the people whom we take pride in being a nation with. National pride is all based on an idea that may or may not exist - the idea that "being American" means something more than the idea you have of it in your head.
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You put it better than I could have done. In many ways, the shared identity that forms a nation or a country is to a large extent a social construct.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Pay your taxes, obey the law, vote, become a part of your community and actively work to make the lives of those around you better. I think that's the epitome of what it means to be a good citizen.
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How can you do all that without having some pride ?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Well, personally, those things have little to do with national pride and more to do with personal pride and self-betterment.
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maybe...I have pride in my country, admittedly not as much as I had 10 yrs ago but I still do...I would be a very unhappy old fart if I couldnt feel pride for where i was born and raised....I feel for anyone that doesnt have pride in their country
 
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