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Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

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Patrickt said:
That's not hard. Most liberals don't pay their taxes. What percentage of the folks who pay no income tax, 47% of the people, are liberals? Most.
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Do you have a link for this?

And I agree. There was a time before the socialist took over that liberals did join the military. Like your father, your uncles, one of your cousins, and your grandfathers. I'm proud of them. And you?

Why do you think the liberals work so hard to disenfranchize the military?
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Liberals still join the military including some members of this website. And don't assume you have the right to question how I feel about my family members who served in the military. Of course I'm proud, if only because they would rip into for the bull**** your spewing all over this board.
 
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TheBook said:
I'd argue that the best thing a citizen can do is to criticize. It means they haven't settled and believe in making their country better.

Perfect is inherently unattainable. Striving to push your country closer to that unattainable ideal is truly admirable.
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Not when the push is toward a bigger government and socialism. That's when patriots need to push back and push back hard.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Speaking of painfully obvious, pointing out that one California Senator wants to socialize one specific industry doesn't come anywhere near refuting the comment, "The majority of democrats are not in favor of [socialism]." Not even when you point out that she represents other people.

Unless, of course, you're positing that the majority of Democrats in this country live in California, and that they all voted for her. :lol:
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There's a boatload of socialists in the democratic congress. Their black Caucus and their Progressive caucus are full of them.
 
Sometimes a truly good citizen has a moral and civic obligation to call his/her nation out when it's f'ing things up.
 
Barbbtx said:
There's a boatload of socialists in the democratic congress. Their black Caucus and their Progressive caucus are full of them.
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I'm pretty sure there's a socialist party for socialists...
 
One should be proud of the accomplishments of their anceastors and their own (however minor or unrecognized) contributions to the society that got them this far. In the past couple hundred years or even the last 50, we've come a long way baby. Failure to be able to take pride in one's nation is the result of:

1. Your country sucks (this pretty much only applies to dictatorships).
or
2. You have not traveled and lack perspective.

Being proud of your country is not exclusive of anything else. Have some respect, your life is not so bad.


Let's keep in mind, nationalism is thinking that everything about your country is the best and others are morons; patriotism is thinking that your country's ideals have been and will be pursued.
 
Barbbtx said:
I think you have a warped view of America if you think socialism should play a major part.
Socialism takes away personal responsibilty.
Personal responsibility is what makes it possible for us to pursue happiness.
Socialism comes with a heavy price tag. I'm not willing to give up my God given rights for "free" stuff.
Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer freedom.
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You mean "free" stuff like roads, airports, security (police & military), safety (EMTs, firefighters), etc?

Would you prefer the freedom to craft all of that infrastructure yourself? Do you think a child born in Somalia will do as well as a child born here simply because that child in Somalia has "freedom" and a sense of "personal responsibility"? Or do you think a child born in America has an advantage because of a civilized society full of "free" stuff?
 
You mean "free" stuff like roads, airports, security (police & military), safety (EMTs, firefighters), etc?
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Everything there would be better and cheaper if private, except military (national defense). Competition FTW.
 
ecofarm said:
Everything there would be better and cheaper if private, except military (national defense). Competition FTW.
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There are some public goods that should remain public goods, especially anything that is a natural monopoly.
 
ecofarm said:
One should be proud of the accomplishments of their anceastors and their own (however minor or unrecognized) contributions to the society that got them this far.
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I can understand being proud of one's own contributions. But why be proud of the accomplishments of previous generations?

ecofarm said:
In the past couple hundred years or even the last 50, we've come a long way baby. Failure to be able to take pride in one's nation is the result of:

1. Your country sucks (this pretty much only applies to dictatorships).
or
2. You have not traveled and lack perspective.

Being proud of your country is not exclusive of anything else. Have some respect, your life is not so bad.
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But recognizing that your country has some positive characteristics is not the same as being "proud" of it. I mean, I can see some good things in France, Norway, Japan, Brazil, China, and India. But I don't have any particular "pride" in them because I didn't do a damn thing to make them the way they are. For that matter, I didn't do anything to make the United States the way it is either, aside from my own contributions to the labor force and my vote in two presidential elections.

ecofarm said:
Let's keep in mind, nationalism is thinking that everything about your country is the best and others are morons; patriotism is thinking that your country's ideals have been and will be pursued.
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I think that patriotism inevitably leads to nationalism, even if it's of a more subtle form than overtly thinking that everyone else is a moron. For example, it manifests itself in our foreign policy all the time, when Americans of both political parties view themselves as magnanimously spreading our perfect ideals to the rest of the uncivilized world. And anyone who opposes those values (or just the fact that we're imposing those values) must be evil.
 
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