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Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social programs?

Do you agree with Obama?


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Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Exactly. Why should people work to better their lives when the government can just give them stuff. No muss, no fuss.

It's even worse that we have social programs that make it possible for those who don't work at all to live better than some who do work.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

it doesn't happen that way. able bodied men and (childless) women are expected to take care of themselves. are the systems abused? yes. so let's take care of that, instead of pretending EVERYONE can earn enough to take care of themselves.

And social programs encourage able bodied men to be absent in the lives of the children they donated their sperm to.
Our social programs encourage single mom's to remain single.
It's not that easy to find a husband/father that makes enough to replace all the benefits a single mom is eligible for.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

It's even worse that we have social programs that make it possible for those who don't work at all to live better than some who do work.

I wonder if there was a law that those on welfare could not vote would the dems try so hard to keep so many people dependent on the government
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

It is my opinion that any great nation should always have programs in place that help citizens who struggle, particularly in poverty. If we were a nation that let the "least" of our society stay as they are without any national effort, then we would not be great. Charities cannot handle all the work required to take such actions.

That's true, but government shouldn't take tax dollars to provide food stamps etc for people who can afford to have cell phones, big screen TV's, Dish Network etc. either. We've gone way beyond helping the needy and those going through hard times.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I do not think I would have phrased it just the same way, but yes, I do agree with the sentiment. We are the greatest country on earth, and a big part of why is that we do care enough as a society to take care of the elderly.

Yes, phrase it more subtlely so that the American people don't know EXACTLY what you mean. That's the usual approach, Obama ****ed up.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I love watching conservatives tell liberals what they believe. As always, they get it wrong.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I love watching conservatives tell liberals what they believe. As always, they get it wrong.

just as most liberals tell us false reasons for what they believe?
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I wonder if there was a law that those on welfare could not vote would the dems try so hard to keep so many people dependent on the government

I couldn't go along with that. However, if we had a fair tax, poor people wouldn't be able to vote for the candidates most likely to raise taxes on others to benefit themselves.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I love watching conservatives tell liberals what they believe. As always, they get it wrong.

I've seen so many threads that just turn into conversations between conservatives about what liberals "really" believe. I like to watch.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

just as most liberals tell us false reasons for what they believe?

It seems important for you to believe that... or else you might actually have to discuss what people say, rather than what you want them to say

Btw, you just proved Redress correct.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I've seen so many threads that just turn into conversations between conservatives about what liberals "really" believe. I like to watch.

Get used to it. It's a weak debate tactic. Respond to what you WANT your opponent to say or believe rather than what he/she ACTUALLY says or believes. Remember, when you talk to yourself, you can always respond, perfectly. Some of our conservatives seem to do this a lot.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I couldn't go along with that. However, if we had a fair tax, poor people wouldn't be able to vote for the candidates most likely to raise taxes on others to benefit themselves.

that works for me

anything that prevents politicians from buying the votes of the many by taking from those who pay most of the taxes

people should not be able to vote themselves the wealth of others when they have not contributed to the pot
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

It seems important for you to believe that... or else you might actually have to discuss what people say, rather than what you want them to say

Btw, you just proved Redress correct.

really captain

so tell me

when liberal politicians say they want to ban or restrict guns to prevent crime do you think they really believe that--or do they have other reasons

when they say the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes do they say that to appeal to class envy or because they really believe that

and to throw you a bone-when many conservatives say they are against abortion because it ends innocent life I think they say that because its far more wholesome than saying they want to punish women for engaging in sex outside of marriage
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

really captain

so tell me

when liberal politicians say they want to ban or restrict guns to prevent crime do you think they really believe that--or do they have other reasons

I think some really believe that. And I think many of those who would say that are either stupid, uneducated on the issue, or naively idealistic.

when they say the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes do they say that to appeal to class envy or because they really believe that

Again, some really believe that. Doesn't mean they are correct.

Turtle, you can't paint this stuff with broad strokes, which is what you tend to do. You are not a mind-reader. People have different motivations for things... sometimes different people have different motivations for the same things.

and to throw you a bone-when many conservatives say they are against abortion because it ends innocent life I think they say that because its far more wholesome than saying they want to punish women for engaging in sex outside of marriage

And I think that some believe it is because they truly believe that abortion ends an innocent life.

Wow... and you've called ME cynical in the past. ;)
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

some do but most do not.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

some do but most do not.

I don't agree, but I think it depends on the issue. Thing is, most people, from my experience, who make claims about what the other side believe, do so because of their own biases, not because of what the other side believes. Listen and interpret. It is true that people don't always say what they mean, but they also don't always say what you want them to mean.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I don't agree, but I think it depends on the issue. Thing is, most people, from my experience, who make claims about what the other side believe, do so because of their own biases, not because of what the other side believes. Listen and interpret. It is true that people don't always say what they mean, but they also don't always say what you want them to mean.

I think most politicians who say things that are clearly contrary to fact do so not because they are stupid or ignorant but rather because their true motivations would cost them votes

saying you want to ban guns to stop crime is a convenient facade that sheeple might believe while saying you want to ban guns to punish voters who tend to vote against your party or to cover up your coddling of criminals is not a winning admission

same with saying you want higher taxes on the rich so you can claim there are ways of paying for handouts needed to buy the votes of your supporters is honest but not politically viable.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I think most politicians who say things that are clearly contrary to fact do so not because they are stupid or ignorant but rather because their true motivations would cost them votes

Facts are funny things, though. It's kinda like saying socialism is a failed economic system. Not true. Under the absolutely perfect circumstance, socialism would work. Now, we know that in practice, this would not be possible, but fact is, theoretically, it would. Theoretically, if we were able to eliminate every gun on earth, and every factory that had the ability to produce guns, gun crime would be reduced to zero. Now, is this feasible? No... someone will want a gun and figure out how to manufacture one, so there goes utopia.

saying you want to ban guns to stop crime is a convenient facade that sheeple might believe while saying you want to ban guns to punish voters who tend to vote against your party or to cover up your coddling of criminals is not a winning admission

Nah, I don't think most politicians are this smart. They believe that banning guns will reduce crime. They are correct... however, they would need to ban the guns from criminals, not law-abiding citizens, something that I have yet to see a gun law really address.

same with saying you want higher taxes on the rich so you can claim there are ways of paying for handouts needed to buy the votes of your supporters is honest but not politically viable.

We've discussed this. You know that I see your position on this as totally absurd and illogical. The position of having the rich pay a higher percentage of taxes is completely logical. Doesn't mean it is correct. Some politicians present this because they see it as logical. Some present it to get votes, solely. Arguing that you absoltuely know the motivation of another is silly, turtle.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I respectfully disagree with the President. His belief that federal government programs define compassion and, thus, the
greatness of America, is misplaced. It reminds of the occasion when President Clinton defined the role of government in a way which asserted, "government gives us the tools to make the most out of our lives", which fits with the view of his wife that the "village" necessary for raising kids demands a powerful central government.
It is true that the visions of President Obama and the vision of persons like me are too different to reconcile, even though more conservatives than most non-conservatives wish the nation was not alienated over politics.
We need to be a nation that cares deeply about each other, and helps each other, in order to live out our destiny. Some of us honestly believe that overbearing, bankruptcy threatening, centralized government actually UNDERMINES the greater ability to lift up every citizen to the highest potential possible!
God bless, both those who agree with the President and others, so long as you try to do right by your families!
Paul Richard Strange Sr
dadprs@hotmail.com
Waxahachie Texas 75165
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

anyone who has a machine tool can make a gun so your analogy fails.

and I reject your position on taxes. I think most rich dems who push that argument do it to buy votes.
sadly we cannot hook all of them up to jumper cables and get the truth:mrgreen:

so we will agree to disagree on this. I actually think most politicians are smart and dishonest. of course Jim bunning, Maxine waters and a few others are dumber than dog poop
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Oh I certainly won't call them Amazing. You get what you pay for...they are sufficient, though, to get anyone out of the hood that wants to get out.

It is not that simple and that is not true. Tell that to the parents of loved ones that lose kids daily over drive by shootings. Those kids are not getting out of anywhere but out of the hood in coffins.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

No you're not. You're trying to find reasons other than welfare to blame on the perpetuation of poverty. If our social programs work so well, why are there still poor Americans?

Because we are not doing enough to help that is why. Not to mention we can make folks on welfare do jobtraining but if there are no jobs? Of course they will stay poor.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

anyone who has a machine tool can make a gun so your analogy fails.

Actually, I said something like that, so you just supported my analogy. Thank you. ;)

and I reject your position on taxes. I think most rich dems who push that argument do it to buy votes.
sadly we cannot hook all of them up to jumper cables and get the truth:mrgreen:

We've argued this lots. I completely disagree with your position on this, and unlike gun issues, I have seen nothing that you have said on it that compells me to think any differently. You are correct. We must agree to disagree.

so we will agree to disagree on this. I actually think most politicians are smart and dishonest. of course Jim bunning, Maxine waters and a few others are dumber than dog poop

I think most politicians are narrow-minded, ignorant, and dishonest.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

It is not that simple and that is not true. Tell that to the parents of loved ones that lose kids daily over drive by shootings. Those kids are not getting out of anywhere but out of the hood in coffins.

So, I am confused. Are you suggesting we start ANOTHER federal entitlement program to supply coffins to the needy?
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Actually, I said something like that, so you just supported my analogy. Thank you. ;)



We've argued this lots. I completely disagree with your position on this, and unlike gun issues, I have seen nothing that you have said on it that compells me to think any differently. You are correct. We must agree to disagree.



I think most politicians are narrow-minded, ignorant, and dishonest.

damn I agree with you on your last post

(reminds me of Cardinal Ximinez)
 
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