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Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social programs?

Do you agree with Obama?


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Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I read his statement as being about now. We are a great country now because of those programs he mentioned.
Which can mean either a) You weren't a great country before them, or b) you wouldn't be a great country if they weren't introduced.
First off, Obama mentions several specific programs, not social programs in general. Also note that it depends on what "greatness" you are talking about. Greatest super power, probably we would still be. Great in terms of a great place to live, not as much.

But the thing is, and this is why I mentioned history in my above post, the historical precedent is there for America being a great country without these specific programs, and thus it is resonable to assume that the trend would have continued. But really it all falls down to if you interpret greatness as being dependent on a single thing, or an amalgamation.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Which can mean either a) You weren't a great country before them, or b) you wouldn't be a great country if they weren't introduced.

Egypt used to be a great country. They are not any more. If you do not continue to do great things, you cease to be great.


But the thing is, and this is why I mentioned history in my above post, the historical precedent is there for America being a great country without these specific programs, and thus it is resonable to assume that the trend would have continued. But really it all falls down to if you interpret greatness as being dependent on a single thing, or an amalgamation.

We used to be great without electricity and running water. Now one aspect of our greatness is that every one has them.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Disagree 99%..

That is good news to most of us-it is a stamp of sanity on his post
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

No, lack of ambition is caused by social welfare. It is lack of ambition that perpetuates poverty.

the party that needs lots of dependent people to vote them into power engages in policies that creates lots of dependent people who are beholden to their dem masters.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Government handouts DO promote a culture of entitlement and disincentive to work, or to find work.

On the other hand, sometimes poverty is systemic and thus breeds contempt and hopelessness.

It's not a one-sided argument.

what things are most prevalent among the poor

1) dropping out of HS before earning a diploma

2) doing drugs are co-habitating with drug abusers and dealers

3) breeding before getting married

avoiding those three things don't require the rich to pay more taxes or society to fund the poor.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

what things are most prevalent among the poor

1) dropping out of HS before earning a diploma

2) doing drugs are co-habitating with drug abusers and dealers

3) breeding before getting married

avoiding those three things don't require the rich to pay more taxes or society to fund the poor.

I'd say that:

1. Eating

2. Using utilities

3. Renting

Are things poor people do more often, that often do require rich people to pay taxes so they can afford it, otherwise their standard of living can drop rather sharply.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

what things are most prevalent among the poor

1) dropping out of HS before earning a diploma

2) doing drugs are co-habitating with drug abusers and dealers

3) breeding before getting married

avoiding those three things don't require the rich to pay more taxes or society to fund the poor.

Holy class warfare!
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I agree, poverty was perpetuated long before social welfare - it's not the problem. I think I would switch hatred and intolerance with indifference and intolerance. But yeah, an education system that adequately addresses the unique learning barriers that poor students bring with them would be the best way to tackle poverty.

What learning barriers? Mayor Snorkum was the poorest child in his public school class, and he had no difficulty learning, except that the teachers weren't very bright, in comparison, by the time he got to high school.

Since the Mayor was able to overcome his environmental handicaps without the blessed hand of the Socialist Elites, others can do it, too. And they'll do it better for having done it themselves. As for the others, the nation has a perpetual need for unskilled labor, no reason to be allowing the exploitation of invaders from Mexico when we're growing our own American strawberry pickers.

Children who do not wish to pick strawberries for a living should pay attention in school.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I'd say that:

1. Eating

2. Using utilities

3. Renting

Are things poor people do more often, that often do require rich people to pay taxes so they can afford it, otherwise their standard of living can drop rather sharply.

that's a silly response-care to try to be serious?
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Holy class warfare!

HOw is that class warfare? its not the fault of the rich republicans that the poor breed before marriage at far higher rates than successful people or do drugs or drop out of HS

the point is-much poverty could be erased if people didn't engage in obviously destructive behavior that provides no benefits anyway

and we should make it far more painful for those who do
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

“‘There but for the grace of God go I,’ we say to ourselves, and so we contribute to programs like Medicare and Social Security, which guarantee us health care and a measure of basic income after a lifetime of hard work; unemployment insurance, which protects us against unexpected job loss; and Medicaid, which provides care for millions of seniors in nursing homes, poor children, and those with disabilities,” Obama said. “We are a better country because of these commitments. I’ll go further – we would not be a great country without those commitments.”[/I]

Do you agree that we wouldn't be a great country without SS, Medicare and Medicaid?


Yes I agree. We are a great country, and we are great because of the promise made in the Preamble of the Constitution to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...". Though we had to struggle through a civil war, robber barons, a Great Depression and two world wars (among other hardships), we emerged in the years following WWII as the most prosperous and most powerful country in the world. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are simply examples of the committment we as Americans have toward that original promise.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Yes I agree. We are a great country, and we are great because of the promise made in the Preamble of the Constitution to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...". Though we had to struggle through a civil war, robber barons, a Great Depression and two world wars (among other hardships), we emerged in the years following WWII as the most prosperous and most powerful country in the world. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are simply examples of the committment we as Americans have toward that original promise.

we would still be great without that new deal crap and its progeny and we would be stronger more productive nation
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Well he's exactly right. I don't know how any American wouldn't agree with it 100%. Even cavemen cared for their sick. Being useless to the tribe didn't mean sure death.

It doesn't necessarily take government programs to get people to care for their friends, neighbors etc.
Obama on the other hand prefers "forced charity" through taxes etc. How do I know he prefers that? Because one of the first things he wanted to cut was tax deductions for charitable giving.
No one knows where we would be today without these social programs.
My opinion is that we would be a much more giving nation. As it is now, we consider it the government's job to take of people who can't take care of themselves.
To say that those programs is what makes America great, gives me a sick feeling in my stomach about this presidents view of America.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

It doesn't necessarily take government programs to get people to care for their friends, neighbors etc.
Obama on the other hand prefers "forced charity" through taxes etc. How do I know he prefers that? Because one of the first things he wanted to cut was tax deductions for charitable giving.
No one knows where we would be today without these social programs.
My opinion is that we would be a much more giving nation. As it is now, we consider it the government's job to take of people who can't take care of themselves.
To say that those programs is what makes America great, gives me a sick feeling in my stomach about this presidents view of America.

Obama was being honest-he thinks the dems winning elections makes america great and income redistribution is how those elections are won by dems
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

What learning barriers?


The National Household and Education Survey (NHES)—a nationally representative survey of households—asks parents of children ages 3–6 whether their child is able to do certain school readiness-related activitiesData from these surveys in 1990, 1993, and 2007 (years in which the questions were included) indicate that children from poorer families are less able to recognize their letters, count to 20, write their name, or read or pretend to read a book.

http://www.rif.org/documents/us/RIFandLearningPointMeta-FullReport.pdf

Caused in part by:

Children from poorer families have fewer books in their homes, have fewer books available in the school and classroom library, and live farther from public libraries than do children raised by middle- and upper-income families.

62% of parents with high socioeconomic status read to their children every day. 36% of parents with low socioeconomic status read to their children every day.

Lifehacker, tips and downloads for getting things done
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

So then what would you suggest to end the poverty problem in this country? On the one hand you say government maintains the problem and on the other you imply that personal problems like drug use and video games are part of the problem. What's your solution?

Oh, that's easy.

Redefine "poverty" to include only the truly impoverished, not the poor. If someone is poor because they're stupid and addicted to drugs, they shouldn't count in any "poverty" statistics, it's their own fault they're where they're at.

If someone has a state of the art cell phone, he's clearly not impoverished, and shouldn't be counted as such. He's a con man, and should be counted as such.

If a person is working in an area where only seasonal work employs his skills, and he chooses not to move to where he can work more, then he's not impoverished, he's stubborn, and certainly does not deserve to have his unemployed weeks supplemented with taxpayer dollars.

Finally, poverty should be something to ashamed of, since shame is something that motivates people to improve themselves.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

There are times when I don't disagree with the above sentiment, however this is not one of them. To me, this topic is what defines liberal and conservative.

It does not define anyone. I am conservative and I see that the social services we have are supposed to serve a TEMPORARY purpose. The problem is it's NOT. It is becoming a way of life for some people and this needs to stop.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra


Uh. Huh. And?

of course many parents of poor children don't give a crap about their spawn.

That does not make their spawn the public's problem, it makes them suitable goals for voluntary charitable (that's a redundant statement, for those of who believe the government can engage in charity) contributions and action. Again, the nation has a need for unskilled labor, and always shall.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

That hurts coming from you. :coffeepap

Nonetheless - we're not talking about "proud", we're talking about "really proud". Let me give you examples of times when Americans were "really proud" of their country - winning the revolutionary war, victory after WWII, passage of the Civil Rights of 1864, etc.. She was talking about pivotal moment in history where you think to yourself - "this is what America is all about". Got it yet?

I'm very proud of my country. However, I'll be really, really proud when the day comes that a black or gay, or woman is elected/hired for something and no mention of race, sexual preference, or gender is even mentioned.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Obama was being honest-he thinks the dems winning elections makes america great and income redistribution is how those elections are won by dems

In my opinion, redistribution of wealth is about as un-American as you can get.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Uh. Huh. And?

of course many parents of poor children don't give a crap about their spawn.

That does not make their spawn the public's problem, it makes them suitable goals for voluntary charitable (that's a redundant statement, for those of who believe the government can engage in charity) contributions and action. Again, the nation has a need for unskilled labor, and always shall.

You asked me this question:

What learning barriers?

I answered your question. Now that your ignorance is obvious, you're changing the subject to whose problem those barriers are. I'm over it.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Oh good God... you're whining because you claim a difference between 'proud' and 'really proud'? That's like the difference between blue and really blue. Get a grip.

The first time Ms Obama said it, she left out the word "really" and simply stated it was the first time she had been proud of her country. My guess is she was being honest here and later added really because she got so much grief over it.

http://truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/michelle-obama.htm

The Truth:
Did Michelle Obama say "For the first time in my adult lifetime I am proud of my country?"-Truth!
It was during speeches in Milwaukee and Madison, Wisconsin on February 18, 2008.
In Milwaukee she said, "People in this country are ready for change and hungry for a different kind of politics and … for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback.”

Sickening, for someone campaigning to be our First Lady in my opinion.


In Madison, she said, "“For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment.”

Sickening, but not quite as bad in my opinion.
 
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Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

The first time Ms Obama said it, she left out the word "really" and simply stated it was the first time she had been proud of her country. My guess is she was being honest here and later added really because she got so much grief over it.

Questions about Michelle Obama

The Truth:
Did Michelle Obama say "For the first time in my adult lifetime I am proud of my country?"-Truth!
It was during speeches in Milwaukee and Madison, Wisconsin on February 18, 2008.


Sickening, for someone campaigning to be our First Lady in my opinion.




Sickening, but not quite as bad in my opinion.
It sounds like a winning issue, I think the GOP should go for it again. Maybe this time it will work. :2razz:
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Depends on the individual. And I do think that some of the programs need to be altered to provide more encouragement for independence. That does not change that their mere existence demonstrates the greatness, civilly, and compassion that is the US.

Compassion would be giving of your own free will out of your own pocket. Compassion is not a government taking from it's citizens and giving to others. I am not against social programs that help those in need, however, those programs are not what makes us great.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Compassion would be giving of your own free will out of your own pocket. Compassion is not a government taking from it's citizens and giving to others. I am not against social programs that help those in need, however, those programs are not what makes us great.

many libs think they are being charitable when they vote for income redistributionist politicians. They tend to outsource to the government many things the rest of us see as personal responsibilities-be it helping those less fortunate, saving for our future or self defense
 
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