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Who won the Vietnam War?

Who won the Vietnam War?

  • The French

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The British

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The Americans

    Votes: 6 6.1%

  • The Canadians

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The Chinese

    Votes: 3 3.0%

  • The Russians

    Votes: 3 3.0%

  • The Japanese

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The Vietnamese

    Votes: 46 46.5%

  • No one

    Votes: 23 23.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 18 18.2%
  • Total voters
    99
I voted ‘other.’
What does ‘The French’ or ‘The Americans’ or ‘The Vietnamese’ mean?
Do you mean the French people, or the American government or the Vietnamese elite?
Who won what in relation to goals made public, to goals only people in government knew of, to goals that were secret to only to be known at a later time, etc.
The Vietnam War is a huge subject and I am unsure if we can break it down piece by piece in this thread.
I mean, do we talk about the aspects of non-interventionism or do we talk about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that was deliberately falsified, or do we talk about the loss of liberty at home during the war, etc?
:doh
 
I voted other ... The Military Industrial Complex is the only clear victor.
 
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Dittohead not! said:
So, it was the Communist Party that installed a capitalist system, or it was the Communists that united China? Neither one seems to make a lot of sense.

Wasn't China pretty unified before the Communists took over?

Why would a Communist government institute capitalism?
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actually both statements are true. no, to answer your question, china was not unified much at all before Mao came to power, he pulled the country into the modern world, and the later leaders of the party would transition the economic policies to a sort of (and im using this term loosely) capitalist / government controlled market economy.
 
Let's simplify things then, the government of Vietnam OWNED the government of the United States. Agreed?
 
peepnklown said:
I voted ‘other.’
What does ‘The French’ or ‘The Americans’ or ‘The Vietnamese’ mean?
Do you mean the French people, or the American government or the Vietnamese elite?
Who won what in relation to goals made public, to goals only people in government knew of, to goals that were secret to only to be known at a later time, etc.
The Vietnam War is a huge subject and I am unsure if we can break it down piece by piece in this thread.
I mean, do we talk about the aspects of non-interventionism or do we talk about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that was deliberately falsified, or do we talk about the loss of liberty at home during the war, etc?
:doh
Click to expand...

i think we we ask, 'who won', we want to know who ultimately prevailed. let's examine our choices one by one:
* The French
they fled in defeat
* The British
they never showed up, unlike the aussies and ROK
* The Americans
we fled in defeat
* The Canadians
nope
* The Chinese
they were the wellspring of supplies during the war. vietnam - south as well as north - was in its orbit after the war, making the chinese the ulitmate winner. thru their support, the chinese sent the non Communist world power home in shame. winning!
* The Russians
the war fractured its relationship with china, so no, russia lost this one, too
* The Japanese
not even playing the game. no position to win or lose
* The Vietnamese
many did. those who aided the USA during the war, not so much. Christian Montagnards, who were our foremost indigenous ally, are still being persecuted (and the UN has ceased monitoring the ongoing mistreatment of these people.) the Montagnards were the biggest losers of the war.
* No one
only where no one gets hurt. never seen during times of war
* Other
another poster, Dion, nailed it. the military industrial complex won ... and continues to win big to this day
 
paris said:
This question was brought up in another thread about Libya which I don't want to derail any further; but I find it interesting. It appears that many people have a different perspective and I find it funny. So please, cast your vote and if you are enclined explain your choice.

I have voted the Vietnamese. The goal of their war was to reunite Vietnam and it was achieved.
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Vietnam wasn't a war - it was a police action. At least as far as the U.S.'s involvement.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
Vietnam wasn't a war - it was a police action. At least as far as the U.S.'s involvement.
Click to expand...

It was a war and the Vietnamese totally won it.

Nobody could logically disagree with this statement: "The government of Vietnam won the war against the United States government."
 
March said:
It was a war and the Vietnamese totally won it.

Nobody could logically disagree with this statement: "The government of Vietnam won the war against the United States government."
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That's right, they won every battle. Oh, wait...
 
apdst said:
That's right, they won every battle. Oh, wait...
Click to expand...

The question was "who won the Vietnam War," not "who won the Vietnam Series-of-Battles." You can win every battle and still lose the war, in which case winning battles is irrelevant.
 
This statement right there represents the entire reason we lost Vietnam in the first place. A failed philosophy of war. Communism doesn't work because it doesn't take into account human nature. I'd say thats a pretty big design flaw.

Likewise, any war strategy that doesn't take into account domestic politics is an inherently flawed idea. A monumental failure at that. We've won pretty much every single battle here in Afghanistan too, but we're probably gonna lose this war as well. Why? Because of a catastrophic failure in logic that people like yourself often engage in.

apdst said:
That's right, they won every battle. Oh, wait...
Click to expand...

Because winning a war means winning every single battle, like we did in the American Revolution! And the Civil War! Oh wait....

Like I said, that statement right there is a spectacular example of why we keep getting involved with these losing wars.
 
March said:
This statement right there represents the entire reason we lost Vietnam in the first place. A failed philosophy of war. Communism doesn't work because it doesn't take into account human nature. I'd say thats a pretty big design flaw.

Likewise, any war strategy that doesn't take into account domestic politics is an inherently flawed idea. A monumental failure at that. We've won pretty much every single battle here in Afghanistan too, but we're probably gonna lose this war as well. Why? Because of a catastrophic failure in logic that people like yourself often engage in.



Because winning a war means winning every single battle, like we did in the American Revolution! And the Civil War! Oh wait....

Like I said, that statement right there is a spectacular example of why we keep getting involved with these losing wars.
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I completely agree...it's ridiculous how many people fail to see this. And it is a principle that holds much more relevance in a democracy.
 
“War does not determine who is right - only who is left.”
 
justabubba said:
* The Chinese
they were the wellspring of supplies during the war. vietnam - south as well as north - was in its orbit after the war, making the chinese the ulitmate winner. thru their support, the chinese sent the non Communist world power home in shame. winning!
* The Russians
the war fractured its relationship with china, so no, russia lost this one, too
Click to expand...

1. Viet Nam was NOT in China's orbit following the war, it was in the SOVIET orbit after the war.
2. The relationship between the Soviet Union and China was already fracturing of other causes. Mao never trusted the Soviets and Moscow never trusted Mao. That far preceeded anything that happened in Viet Nam.
3. China actually invaded Viet Nam in 1979 because Viet Nam invaded a state that DID fall into Beijing's orbit in the 1970s, that being Kampuchea (formerly and once again known as Cambodia)...
 
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March said:
Vietnam won of course. To say anything different would be lying to yourself. What some people don't want to admit is that the world, the United States, and Vietnam probably would have been much better off we never got involved in the first place.

Just as communisms failure to account for human nature represents an inherent design flaw in the system, so too does any military strategy that fails to account for the effects of domestic politics. We lost Vietnam, yep, say it yourselves. "We lost a war." You can debate the causes all you want, but you can't change the facts.
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No, but you can always ignore the facts in order to keep from changing your opinion. People do it all the time.
 
The smart people were the Americans who dodged the draft, even that cowardly piece of camel excrement G. Bush Junior. Over 58000 young men were sacrificed to the alter of corporate greed. May the leaders of thsoe corporations, those disgusting bastards, rot and burn in the everlasting fires of hell and may those who died be forgiven for their stupidity.
 
justabubba said:
one huge nation under one government, with the marshaling of national assets to create an infrastructure capable of competing internationally

without communism china would still be mired in third world status

this is an inconvenient truth that many will want to deny
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Ayn Rand is so rolling in her grave on that remark....
 
Yukon said:
The smart people were the Americans who dodged the draft, even that cowardly piece of camel excrement G. Bush Junior. Over 58000 young men were sacrificed to the alter of corporate greed. May the leaders of thsoe corporations, those disgusting bastards, rot and burn in the everlasting fires of hell and may those who died be forgiven for their stupidity.
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First of all, G.W. was not a "junior". Get your facts straight.

Second of all, do you know that the Vietnamese people today generally LIKE the United States? They generally do NOT like France, Japan or especially China, but the LIKE the United States. Of course facts like that really are something you and your ilk can't deal with, huh???
 
ludahai said:
First of all, G.W. was not a "junior". Get your facts straight.

Second of all, do you know that the Vietnamese people today generally LIKE the United States? They generally do NOT like France, Japan or especially China, but the LIKE the United States. Of course facts like that really are something you and your ilk can't deal with, huh???
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everyone LIKES the united states around the world dude, no one is refuting that.
 
StillBallin75 said:
The question was "who won the Vietnam War," not "who won the Vietnam Series-of-Battles." You can win every battle and still lose the war, in which case winning battles is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

And, what is a war?

What part of, "from a tactical point of view", don't you get?
 
March said:
This statement right there represents the entire reason we lost Vietnam in the first place. A failed philosophy of war. Communism doesn't work because it doesn't take into account human nature. I'd say thats a pretty big design flaw.

Likewise, any war strategy that doesn't take into account domestic politics is an inherently flawed idea. A monumental failure at that. We've won pretty much every single battle here in Afghanistan too, but we're probably gonna lose this war as well. Why? Because of a catastrophic failure in logic that people like yourself often engage in.



Because winning a war means winning every single battle, like we did in the American Revolution! And the Civil War! Oh wait....

Like I said, that statement right there is a spectacular example of why we keep getting involved with these losing wars.
Click to expand...

We lost all the battled during those wars? oh, wait...

The North Vietnamese, on the other hand lost every decisive action that we engaged them in. All the way from The Ia Drang Valley to the Easter Offensive.
 
apdst said:
And, what is a war?

What part of, "from a tactical point of view", don't you get?
Click to expand...

Like I said, any strategy that doesn't account for domestic politics is ultimately a failed strategy.

Communism is a great theory too, except it doesn't account for human nature. That's a pretty big design flaw, wouldn't you agree? Likewise, any strategy that doesn't account for domestic politics has an inherent design flaw.

apdst said:
We lost all the battled during those wars? oh, wait...
Click to expand...

How on Earth could you derive that from what I said? My point was that winning and losing battles is irrelevent when you have an inherent design flaw in your overall strategy. You're still stuck on trying to "prove" that we won more battles. Amazing!

apdst said:
The North Vietnamese, on the other hand lost every decisive action that we engaged them in. All the way from The Ia Drang Valley to the Easter Offensive.
Click to expand...

And they still won the war! What does that tell you?
 
apdst said:
We lost all the battled during those wars? oh, wait...

The North Vietnamese, on the other hand lost every decisive action that we engaged them in. All the way from The Ia Drang Valley to the Easter Offensive.
Click to expand...

Ya and then you gave up and left. Hence they won the war by default.
 
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