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Who won the Vietnam War?

Who won the Vietnam War?

  • The French

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The British

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Americans

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • The Canadians

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Chinese

    Votes: 3 3.0%
  • The Russians

    Votes: 3 3.0%
  • The Japanese

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Vietnamese

    Votes: 46 46.5%
  • No one

    Votes: 23 23.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 18 18.2%

  • Total voters
    99
Please explain? Seems to me we lost the war in every way, shape and form..... the results don't lie.

American forces never lost a significant battle in Vietnam. We were well on our way to victory when we abandoned the campaign and our allies due to political pressure and domestic unrest.

We didn't lose. We quit. And frankly, as far as I am concerned, that is more shameful.
 
Whose only purpose was to draft a constitution that was then ratified by popular vote. I fail to see how that influenced Iraq to give us oil contracts that we in fact failed to get long term.

There would not be a "new" corrupt government without our invasion and occupation to allow western oil back in Iraq for the first time since Iraq Nationalized their oil in 1972.

Iraq is a treasure chest of black gold, and now it's offering contracts to foreign firms for the first time since 1972.


No we did not.

What a convincing case you make. LOL!

We did not influence the elections.

I would argue that just having the most powerful military beat back a country's opposition to that occupation for years influneces people. It is further evidenced that the corrupt government we helped install cannot stand against their own people without our continued military occupation.

The fastest conversion to democracy ever. We certainly are not propping up the government.

Amazing what can happen when you back one side in a civil war and use taxpayer money to buy off the bad actors. Too bad it can't stand on its own with out occuapation by the most powerful military on the planet


We only received short-term contracts and did not land a single contract in the last round, which were long-term contracts.


It was never about our US companies getting contracts. Have you never read Cheney's and his oil cohorts report? The goal of our war against Iraq was laid out before we were ever attacked on 9/11:

"The report, Strategic Energy Policy Challenges For The 21st Century, concludes: "The United States remains a prisoner of its energy dilemma. Iraq remains a de-stabilising influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export programme to manipulate oil markets. Therefore the US should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq including military, energy, economic and political/ diplomatic assessments.

"The United States should then develop an integrated strategy with key allies in Europe and Asia, and with key countries in the Middle East, to restate goals with respect to Iraqi policy and to restore a cohesive coalition of key allies."
Baker who delivered the recommendations to Cheney, the former chief executive of Texas oil firm Halliburton, was advised by Kenneth Lay, the disgraced former chief executive of Enron, the US energy giant which went bankrupt after carrying out massive accountancy fraud.

The other advisers to Baker were: Luis Giusti, a Shell non- executive director; John Manzoni, regional president of BP and David O'Reilly, chief executive of ChevronTexaco. Another name linked to the document is Sheikh Saud Al Nasser Al Sabah, the former Kuwaiti oil minister and a fellow of the Baker Institute."

Official: US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis | Sunday Herald, The Newspaper | Find Articles at BNET





You bring only the same old tired cynical leftist retard anti-war bull**** to the table, Catawba. What gives you away? The fact that you fail to be nuanced about your evaluation and list positives and negatives, of which there are both. To your way of looking at the war, ideologically trapped, all of it is negative. It completely discredits your opinion. Spout whatever crap you want, assume I respond to you again telling you you are wrong.

I bring facts to bear, and you bring "no its not" as a retort. So, I await your usual response.
 
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"Destroy the North's government and unify Vietnam with the South in power? Or drive the North back to the agreed upon line?"

Either one could have been done in under seven years. The only reason the war drew out for that long was because of the war policies. WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH THE WAR IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.

They would have surrendered if America allowed itself to actually fight the war.


If you actually finished reading the post, you would find that problems still arise after the deed is done. To stop South Vietnam from falling into Communism, American presence must be maintained well beyond 7 years, the same as South Korea.
 
Hardly. They had their fair share of support, no doubt, but did they really have a choice? Communism talks a good game, plus the Communist Party was an organizing principle that the south lacked sufficiently in opposition, but when it was over in '75, communists reverted to their true colors and purged ideological dissent. That is the only way a "communist" movement can survive post conflict: it becomes a autocracy. The people of Vietnam suffered decades of maltreatment.


Would it have been better with a strong man "democracy" like those in Africa and Egypt? The reality is that a transfer to true democracy is not always successful either, alot of countries end up being autocracy because that is the path of least resistence.
 
Many of the responses cause me to wonder...... at conservative insitutions of higher learning, do they teach courses in actual History or do they just rename them Rightist Ideology?

:shrug: i couldn't tell you; i went to a thoroughly left-wing institution; which had the benefit of teaching me to becoming self-educating.

UPSIDE: our new school president is a former Commandant.



wait a minute; aren't you the history teacher that didn't even know that FDR had destroyed food?
 
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Really? What did we win?

a reflexive fear of engagement, destruction of a critical portion of American will and confidence in the Cold War, political power... the biggest portion of the victory was mooted when the USSR fell.
 
Really? What did we win?

a reflexive fear of engagement...
Former President Clinton proved the absurdity of that by being the president who deployed troops more times than any other president.

... destruction of a critical portion of American will ...
The American people proved the absurdity of that when we rallied behind Former President Bush's invasion of Afghanistan following 9.11.

... and confidence in the Cold War ...
The fall of South Vietnam to the Communists caused that -- and that was inevitable whenever we left.
 
:shrug: i couldn't tell you; i went to a thoroughly left-wing institution; which had the benefit of teaching me to becoming self-educating.

UPSIDE: our new school president is a former Commandant.



wait a minute; aren't you the history teacher that didn't even know that FDR had destroyed food?

Isn't the doctor who treats himself someone who has a fool for a patient? Seeking affirmation in everything only shows the strength of ones onw bias.
 
American forces never lost a significant battle in Vietnam. We were well on our way to victory when we abandoned the campaign and our allies due to political pressure and domestic unrest.

We didn't lose. We quit. And frankly, as far as I am concerned, that is more shameful.

When you're digging a whole, sometimes the best solution is to stop digging.
 
America lost the Vietnam war because of overreach. Not only were we trying to handle Vietnam, we were also heavily involved in guerrilla warfare in West Africa and South America. We lost mostly because we were trying to impose our 'values' of freedom and democracy while supporting far right governments and torture in others. We lost mostly because we had no clue what it was we were up against. Just as with Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia we didn't really understand the culture or people in those countries. We just kind of assumed they'd see things our way if we killed enough of their left wing leaders.
 
When you're digging a whole, sometimes the best solution is to stop digging.

The only people digging a hole were the goddamned traitors and hippies who wouldn't let our military do its job.
 
America lost the Vietnam war because of overreach. Not only were we trying to handle Vietnam, we were also heavily involved in guerrilla warfare in West Africa and South America. We lost mostly because we were trying to impose our 'values' of freedom and democracy while supporting far right governments and torture in others. We lost mostly because we had no clue what it was we were up against. Just as with Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia we didn't really understand the culture or people in those countries. We just kind of assumed they'd see things our way if we killed enough of their left wing leaders.

I'm not sure if these are the reasons we lost in Vietnam per se, but what you say is very true.
 
LOL love American right wing revisionist thinking, so devoid of truth and fact.

You should be more concerned with the EU cluster**** going on in Libya. You guys are going to look like the biggest assclowns in history. I can't wait; it's long overdue.
 
Former President Clinton proved the absurdity of that by being the president who deployed troops more times than any other president.

3 decades later; what was it HW Bush crowed after the first Gulf War? "We have licked Vietnam Syndrom"? there's a reason it had to be licked. and how did the Left lead the charge against the Iraq War? it's vietnam, it's vietnam, it's vietnam...

The American people proved the absurdity of that when we rallied behind Former President Bush's invasion of Afghanistan following 9.11.

i'm going to assume this makes sense to you because it makes none to me.

The fall of South Vietnam to the Communists caused that -- and that was inevitable whenever we left.

actually it wasn't; South Vietnam beat off an invasion from the North. It wasn't until a few years later, when China was still supplying the North and we ceased to aid the South that the North was successful. Vietnam Syndrome beat the South Vietnamese as surely as the American Left beat the US.
 
Isn't the doctor who treats himself someone who has a fool for a patient? Seeking affirmation in everything only shows the strength of ones onw bias.

which is why i'm actually glad that our institutions are left wing; though i wish they would allow some contrarian viewpoints. it forces conservative students to think and helps keep the liberal ones dumb.
 
3 decades later; what was it HW Bush crowed after the first Gulf War? "We have licked Vietnam Syndrom"? there's a reason it had to be licked. and how did the Left lead the charge against the Iraq War? it's vietnam, it's vietnam, it's vietnam...

Are you comparing the miltitary abilities of the North Vietnamese with the Iraqis???? Well, if that's the case don't forget to add the Grenada war feather to your cap.

And even still, eight years later the corrupt government we helped set up there can't stand against its own people with out the continued occupation by the most powerful military on the planet.
 
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Are you comparing the miltitary abilities of the North Vietnamese with the Iraqis

nope, simply pointing out that vietnam became a rallying cry for the left as a symbol of their ability to counteract the US' ability to wage war.
 
nope, simply pointing out that vietnam became a rallying cry for the left as a symbol of their ability to counteract the US' ability to wage war.

Some wars are just not meant to be waged, in my opinion. In the past few decades policymakers have been all too cavalier in their deployment of armed force to solve problems.
 
nope, simply pointing out that vietnam became a rallying cry for the left as a symbol of their ability to counteract the US' ability to wage war.


I'm proud to have helped put an end to needless killing :sun
 
I'm proud to have helped put an end to needless killing :sun

so you consider the hell that was unleashed following the fall of SVietnam to have been 'needful killing'? i have a Hmong buddy whose family (what's left of it) might take exception to that.
 
so you consider the hell that was unleashed following the fall of SVietnam to have been 'needful killing'? i have a Hmong buddy whose family (what's left of it) might take exception to that.

Maybe the killing in Vietnam and Cambodia would not be so horrendous without US involvement. If the South was not supplied by the US to fight against the North, the unification of the country would have happened much sooner with much less hunger for vengance by the North. In cambodia, without US encouragement, who knows if Lon Nol would actually succeed in overthrowing Sikhanouk, then there would not have been the insanity of the Khmer Rouge.

Politicians should not play God, especially in regions with cultures they couldn't understand.
 
Maybe the killing in Vietnam and Cambodia would not be so horrendous without US involvement. If the South was not supplied by the US to fight against the North, the unification of the country would have happened much sooner with much less hunger for vengance by the North. In cambodia, without US encouragement, who knows if Lon Nol would actually succeed in overthrowing Sikhanouk, then there would not have been the insanity of the Khmer Rouge.

Politicians should not play God, especially in regions with cultures they couldn't understand.

Your justifying the Slaughter of the South by the North with U.S. involvement?
 
3 decades later; what was it HW Bush crowed after the first Gulf War? "We have licked Vietnam Syndrom"? there's a reason it had to be licked. and how did the Left lead the charge against the Iraq War? it's vietnam, it's vietnam, it's vietnam...

Reagan didn't seem to feel the same way when he ordered troops into Grenada. Or the air strike against Libya.
 
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