Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?kkkkkkk

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

ThePlayDrive said:

I choose: 'don't have to join a union'.

However, when certain workers opt out a union it may cancel out the work the unions do to help members. On the one hand, I think people should be able to do what they want. But on the other, I think that choice might be damaging, in the long run, to all workers. I have to do more research on the matter of choice in this instance.

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I know of no union that forces anyone to join. However, those who do not wish to join will have to pay a percentage of the union wage (i.e.: 85%). This only stands to reason if they are going to earn the same wage as union members, a wage secured through the considerable efforts of these union members and through no effort of the scab.

Allowing scabs the option of not joining and not paying any percentage of the union wage, but enjoying the wage and benefits secured by the union amounts to union busting.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

TurtleDude said:

Private businesses tend to compete against one another. that is the last thing public sector unions want to do

can you see it-SEIU tells the City of Cincinnati it will set pay at 2X minimum wage and AFSCME comes in and wait it will supply janitors for city hall who only want 1.5X minimum wage

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Not sure competition with each other is always ideal for workers who often need to work together, but let's not confuse two different functions. There is more than one role to play here.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Try to get a job in lighting on a Hollwood movie set without being an IATSE member and then come back to tell us there aren't closed shops. Same thing with acting and SAG.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Boo Radley said:

Are you suggesting Business never plays a role in who is nominated? Wealthy people paly no role? If only unions donated to the cause, you might have a point. But frankly a lot of anti-union forces donate as much or more to candidates. I'm sorry, but there is no preversion, and unions are merely being scapegoated.

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No one of any intelligence would suggest that the private sector does not maintain the upper hand in spades compared to unions, as far as influence over public elections is concerned. This was most plainly evident in the Walker recall where an avalanche of private sector money made all the difference.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

clownboy said:

Try to get a job in lighting on a Hollwood movie set without being an IATSE member and then come back to tell us there aren't closed shops. Same thing with acting and SAG.

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Who said there wasn't? Though I did work in one (closed shop) without being a union member. But the statement I read is about forcing to join. Not whether there was a closed shop or not. There is a difference.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Ockham said:

Private sector unions should get the best deal they can through negotiations, collective bargaining, whatever. Public unions are not needed, not now not ever.

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Negotiation in union-speak for extortion that includes bribery, assault, arson, theft, sabotage, vandalism and any other criminal act they wish to encourage.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Sig said:

No one of any intelligence would suggest that the private sector does not maintain the upper hand in spades compared to unions, as far as influence over public elections is concerned. This was most plainly evident in the Walker recall where an avalanche of private sector money made all the difference.

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Was that the election where out of state union thugs registered to vote using the hotel as their address? Right, that was it. No one of any intelligence would have made the dishonest statement you made and expect to not be called on it. Does a company providing janitorial service have the upper hand over President Obama's beloved SEIU purple-shirted thugs? Did any president ever promise to cross a picket line like Barack Obama promised to march on a picket line. The avalanche of union money makes all the difference and they get it all back and then some if they deliver the promised votes.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Patrickt said:

Negotiation in union-speak for extortion that includes bribery, assault, arson, theft, sabotage, vandalism and any other criminal act they wish to encourage.

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prove to me that any private union has participated in these acts...

Second of all, NO one is forcing you to join a union. If you don't like the idea of unionization then you probably should have picked a different career path. For instance, if you wanted to be a teacher, maybe you should have taken into consideration what teachers unionization is all about, and if that is something that you can accept or not.

As far as private sector unions go, of course they are needed. The person who is contracting out the jobs goal is to pay the lowest dollar possible, the workers goal is to get paid the highest amount possible (and they deserve to be).


Ever get up on some iron, walking on less than a 1 foot wide piece of metal 100's of feet off the ground. Would you do that for 10 bucks n hour?

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Workers should NEVER be forced to join a union to get a certain job. That is a ridiculous infringement on our basic freedoms.

Also, people should be able to form their own unions if they want to. There shouldn't just be one official union for a certain career.

And of course votes should always be anonymous.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Generally, I don't mind if individual businesses or companies unionize, I absolutely oppose public employee unions and state or national unions that represent a huge number of companies. When the union has no direct stake in the survival or health of the individual company, it's not collective bargaining, it's union thuggery. When the company can say "here's all the money we have, this is all we can pay you, either take what we can give or we'll go out of business and you won't have a job", the union ought to understand that because it's reality. Large unions don't care if individual job sites go out of business, they have sources of income all over the place.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I don't think you should be forced to join a union but I do believe you have the right to if you want.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Patrickt said:

I oppose unions, think no worker should be forced to join a union, and think no worker should be subjected the threats or harrassment to force his decision in a union election.

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Divide and Conquer

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Andalublue said:

Couldn't have anything to do with the crap cars they were designing, could it? What did the UAW do to make the Chrysler 200 a pale imitation of a Mercedes? Or a Chevrolet a re-badged Korean Daewoo? I know the big corporations are desperate to find someone to pin their monumental failures on, but the unions aren't it. Poor management, profit milking, lack of investment in product development, entrenched lock-step relations with the oil industry and poor competitor monitoring are the reasons the US motor manufacturers went belly-up. Don't blame it on the unions just because it's the fashionable thing to do these days - blame the wrongs of the world on the unions, not on crap capitalists.

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The people doing the blaming got their own jobs the way these incompetent Motown Bizz Skool grads got theirs. Besides that solidarity with fellow corporate flunkies, their other reason was to get even. Because they lived like little boys while in college, since they weren't being paid to be there, they got extremely jealous of unionized 18-22 year olds who had money, cars, and dates. Revenge of the Brown-Nosing Wimps. Rewards: trophy wives and trophy lives. But their glorified status is nothing but a hood ornament on a clunker.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

PrometheusBound said:

The people doing the blaming got their own jobs the way these incompetent Motown Bizz Skool grads got theirs. Besides that solidarity with fellow corporate flunkies, their other reason was to get even. Because they lived like little boys while in college, since they weren't being paid to be there, they got extremely jealous of unionized 18-22 year olds who had money, cars, and dates. Revenge of the Brown-Nosing Wimps. Rewards: trophy wives and trophy lives. But their glorified status is nothing but a hood ornament on a clunker.

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Your hatred is obvious but you shouldn't allow it to lead you into a life of crime.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

PrometheusBound said:

Divide and Conquer

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Is that supposed to make sense? I never joined a union. I never was conquered. For me, since I was not lazy, incompetent, corrupt, or brutal, I really didn't need a union. I realize some can't survive without extortion and violence. Some people can live by working but some either don't know how or simply aren't willing.

Have you ever noticed the similarity in language between organized crime and unions. Rats, finks, stoolie. Never rat out your brothers no matter what they do. How pitiful.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

No man can gripe about a shortage of voting selections, thanks James..
So I vote other.
I maintain that unions will always be necessary until ownership/management learns respect (decency, fair play, etc).
I think we are ever so slowly achieving this paradigm.
Of course, respect is a two-way street, unions need to learn this..
So, the very imperfect world will continue, BUT when a man votes it MUST be anonymous.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I recognise there are different perspectives and objectives for workers and management and thus the need for bargaining. On the other hand in many ways what is good for workers is also good for management and vice versa. I would like to see more emphasis on this in labor negotiations.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

0bserver92 said:

I don't think you should be forced to join a union but I do believe you have the right to if you want.

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Unfortunately, that's just not the way unions work. If you want to work in a union shop, you are required to join the union, like it or not. There are many industries where the whole industry is unionized and you cannot work unless you're part of the union.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I suppose I support workers getting treated fairly and with respect. So, whatever reasonable action it takes for that to happen, I'm for it.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

johnny_rebson said:

China has had a growth rate over 5 percent for quite some time now.

Obviously we should look at them regarding union laws.

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More like human, civil, labor and environmental law, if we wanna score the fake (self-valued and exists elsewhere) capital.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Work places where employees have to be part of the unions is no different than the employer demanding that employees wear a uniform ... I am for anything that makes the workplace more democratic.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I am for private sector unions but against public sector unions. Public sector unions are to easily corruptible particularly in highly unionized areas. I am also against closed shops, I no not believe in forcing an employee into a union against their will only to become employed.

Several mention free riders on union benefits. Nineteen years ago I worked in a partially unionized shop, I was not a union member. My union counterparts who preformed the same job received 45 mins more break time in an 8 hour shift, were payed $3.00+ more per hour, had a separate break room that had a small staffed cafe style eatery where workers could order hot food during breaks, more sick days and vacation time, better health and life insurance packages. So no benefits do not necessarily have to be shared or freely ridden.

I was offered the opportunity to join the union force my very first day on the job (I think dues were about $35 a bi-weekly, its been a while) but I did not join. Now many may think that a stupid move I mean look at everything I would have gained by simply paying a few dollars a week in dues. My reason, I thought they were being over compensated for the job and harmful to the company. I mean 45 minutes additional break time in a 8 hour shift? Come on! thats all anyone needs in an 8 hour shift in my opinion, not additional to what we already received. Then when you take into account the spiffy break room with a staffed eatery for a small shop (probably 30 union workers max per shift) I quickly formed and held the impression that this was almost a vacation getaway and not viewed as a job to some of them. Several coworkers that I became familiar with overtime seemed to hold the impression that employment was something that should be made enjoyable and an employee should not feel they are having to preform tasks they dislike, like it was some sorta pastime activity and not a job. I am all for making your job as enjoyable as possible but not to the point it interferes with production or the bottom line. Also when I agreed to take the job I felt the compensation (non union) was fair and I agreed to it. I think it would have been pretty crappy of me to agree to the terms and then once hired say Nope! not good enough, Im joining the union! I do not live that way.

Some safety measures may have been established by Union involvement but I do not believe safety should have a price (fee?) and all employees union and non-union should receive full benefits of improved safety equipment/procedures cost free.

The place eventually closed down and moved to Mexico. I am not sure if this change had anything to do with the union presence but I would not be surprised.

Summary- Unions left a bad taste in my mouth early in my working life and the taste has remained since, perhaps unfairly but it is what it is.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Patrickt said:

Your hatred is obvious but you shouldn't allow it to lead you into a life of crime.

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If I had wanted to devote my life to crime, I would have joined the corporate parasites long ago.

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Patrickt said:

Is that supposed to make sense? I never joined a union. I never was conquered. For me, since I was not lazy, incompetent, corrupt, or brutal, I really didn't need a union. I realize some can't survive without extortion and violence. Some people can live by working but some either don't know how or simply aren't willing.

Have you ever noticed the similarity in language between organized crime and unions. Rats, finks, stoolie. Never rat out your brothers no matter what they do. How pitiful.

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A little muscle is very effective.
Do you have a problem with that? If you want to hire wimps, go to the Third World and you'll get all the slavish coolies you want. Oh wait, you've already done that. Aren't you proud of making money off people who love to grovel in the dirt before their Masters?

Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

RGacky3 said:

Work places where employees have to be part of the unions is no different than the employer demanding that employees wear a uniform ... I am for anything that makes the workplace more democratic.

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Actually those two things are different.

Uniforms distinguish employees from the customers and in some cases indicate their position or job title in the company.The employer has the right to dictate those things.

The union does not own the company.If a company or public sector job is closed shop it is due to the fact the union extorted the company or tax payers into making the company or public sector job 0a closed shop.The only purpose of this is to refill the ranks of the union and to help replenish the union's money.