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Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?kkkkkkk

If you support workers ability to collectively bargain, what do you support?


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jamesrage

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Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support? The votes will be public because people like to cheat on poll questions.


Workers have to join a specific union in order to get a job.

Workers can join any workers union in order to get a job.

Workers don't have to join a union in order to get a job

Workers have to pay union dues in order to get a job.

Workers do not have to pay union dues in order to get a job.

Workers can form a different union if they do not like the unions that are available.

Votes to join a union or other union related votes not being anonymous.

Votes to join a union or other union related votes being anonymous.

other.

I oppose unions.(please specify if it's all unions or just public sector unions you oppose). I even added a option for those who oppose unions or just public sector unions.












Workers don't have to join a union in order to get a job.
Workers do not have to pay union dues in order to get a job.
Workers can form a different union if they do not like the unions that are available.


I oppose closed shops so I voted for these three options.

Votes to join a union or other union related votes being anonymous.
I voted for this option because oppose people being intimidated in to voting a certain way.
 
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Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I chose other. I sit on the fence on the issue of forced unionization. Not a black-and-white issue.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I oppose unions, think no worker should be forced to join a union, and think no worker should be subjected the threats or harrassment to force his decision in a union election.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Provided that all laws are followed, I support whatever arrangement the union and the employer come up with.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I chose several of the above options, mostly relating to the fact that I'm not a fan of union shop.

I am also not a fan of unions being powerful enough to buy off government officials -- but then again, I'm also not a fan of anyone being able to buy off government officials.

I also believe that governments should not be able to use the force of law to break contracts they have entered into with unions.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Private sector unions should get the best deal they can through negotiations, collective bargaining, whatever. Public unions are not needed, not now not ever.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Banning unions/collective bargaining was one of the oppressive hallmarks of both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Private sector unions should get the best deal they can through negotiations, collective bargaining, whatever. Public unions are not needed, not now not ever.

I disagree. Some public unions represent people we hire to go into harm's way. I don't think there's anything wrong with them getting together to ensure their interests are protected.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I choose: 'don't have to join a union'.

However, when certain workers opt out a union it may cancel out the work the unions do to help members. On the one hand, I think people should be able to do what they want. But on the other, I think that choice might be damaging, in the long run, to all workers. I have to do more research on the matter of choice in this instance.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Unions are a lot different now than what they used to be. But I think that worker's should always have the right to organize. I mean we wouldn't have some of the laws we have if it were not for unions and the violent labor history this country has.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I'm against some unions. The UAW for example is a cancer and was a significant part of the reason why GM and Chrysler went bankrupt. Others I'm more torn about. Teacher's unions do some good things (such as mandated minimum student to teacher ratios) and some bad (hiring and firing based strictly on seniority for example).

I do not believe anyone should ever have to join a union or pay union dues to get a job, and I support anonymous votes on union issues so workers can't be intimidated into voting a certain way.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I believe in unions. I believe in free collective bargaining. I do not believe in the closed shop. I do not believe anyone should be forced to join a union but I also believe that anyone who does not join a union does not have the right to benefit from any pay increase or improvement of conditions campaigned for and negotiated by the unions in a company. The unions manage to increase paternity leave from 2 to 4 weeks, for example, then only union members should benefit from that change. Stands to reason.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I believe in unions. I believe in free collective bargaining. I do not believe in the closed shop. I do not believe anyone should be forced to join a union but I also believe that anyone who does not join a union does not have the right to benefit from any pay increase or improvement of conditions campaigned for and negotiated by the unions in a company. The unions manage to increase paternity leave from 2 to 4 weeks, for example, then only union members should benefit from that change. Stands to reason.

That's a good point, I hadn't thought about it like that. If you don't pay dues or contribute to an organization, you shouldn't benefit from what it negotiates. Without that stipulation, people could just not pay the money or make the effort and get the benefits for free.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

That's a good point, I hadn't thought about it like that. If you don't pay dues or contribute to an organization, you shouldn't benefit from what it negotiates. Without that stipulation, people could just not pay the money or make the effort and get the benefits for free.

Yes that's why I'm on the fence: the issue of free-ridership. However, in practical terms how can you make an individual worker not benefit from improved or safer working conditions?
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I'm against some unions. The UAW for example is a cancer and was a significant part of the reason why GM and Chrysler went bankrupt.

Couldn't have anything to do with the crap cars they were designing, could it? What did the UAW do to make the Chrysler 200 a pale imitation of a Mercedes? Or a Chevrolet a re-badged Korean Daewoo? I know the big corporations are desperate to find someone to pin their monumental failures on, but the unions aren't it. Poor management, profit milking, lack of investment in product development, entrenched lock-step relations with the oil industry and poor competitor monitoring are the reasons the US motor manufacturers went belly-up. Don't blame it on the unions just because it's the fashionable thing to do these days - blame the wrongs of the world on the unions, not on crap capitalists.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Yes that's why I'm on the fence: the issue of free-ridership. However, in practical terms how can you make an individual worker not benefit from improved or safer working conditions?

I think I'm going to have to switch my vote on this one. I would be pissed if I paid dues to a union and someone who didn't got the same benefits without working for them, particularly if I went to union meetings and strategized or went on strike. In theory, I believe in choice, particularly if unions aren't supporting the parties you vote for, but I think that should probably be an issue addressed within the unions themselves.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Couldn't have anything to do with the crap cars they were designing, could it? What did the UAW do to make the Chrysler 200 a pale imitation of a Mercedes? Or a Chevrolet a re-badged Korean Daewoo? I know the big corporations are desperate to find someone to pin their monumental failures on, but the unions aren't it. Poor management, profit milking, lack of investment in product development, entrenched lock-step relations with the oil industry and poor competitor monitoring are the reasons the US motor manufacturers went belly-up. Don't blame it on the unions just because it's the fashionable thing to do these days - blame the wrongs of the world on the unions, not on crap capitalists.

Their entire business structure was flawed, that's for sure.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Yes that's why I'm on the fence: the issue of free-ridership. However, in practical terms how can you make an individual worker not benefit from improved or safer working conditions?

That's true, and one of the strongest (albeit not very strong) arguments for the closed shop. Most unionists wouldn't wish poorer H/S conditions on someone who chooses not to join, but negotiated wage settlements, improved pension conditions, improved leave conditions? Damn right they should only apply to those contributing to the negotiation process. You want to go it alone, then you go negotiate those things for yourself.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I'm against public sector unions, and against closed shop private unions. I don't believe people should be forced to join a union in order to have a job.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I'm against public sector unions, and against closed shop private unions. I don't believe people should be forced to join a union in order to have a job.

But do you believe that people who don't join a union should have the right to benefit from any wage or conditions improvements negotiated by the unions?

Also, why do you believe that public sector workers have no right to self-organisation?
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I disagree. Some public unions represent people we hire to go into harm's way. I don't think there's anything wrong with them getting together to ensure their interests are protected.

It isn't a matter of protecting their interests, is it? It's a matter of getting all they can extort. FWIW, there are private sector jobs that are riskier. Farming is more dangerous than police work.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I'm against some unions. The UAW for example is a cancer and was a significant part of the reason why GM and Chrysler went bankrupt. Others I'm more torn about. Teacher's unions do some good things (such as mandated minimum student to teacher ratios) and some bad (hiring and firing based strictly on seniority for example).

I do not believe anyone should ever have to join a union or pay union dues to get a job, and I support anonymous votes on union issues so workers can't be intimidated into voting a certain way.

I am no fan of the UAW and it is the union I twice voted against having represent where I worked, however...

Blaming the UAW for GM/Chrysler going bankrupt is incredibly incomplete. First, remember that Ford also has UAW but did not go bankrupt. Toyota is not unionized, but had serious problems over the same time period. What caused GM/Chrysler to go bankrupt was a bad economy and very poor management decisions, plus the UAW contract.

Secondly, you cannot really blame the UAW for the contract. Their job was to get as much as they can for their workers. They succeeded.

Lastly, realize that pointing the finger to any one or two things as the reason a company the size of GM or Chrysler goes bankrupt is vastly oversimplifying things. This post vastly oversimplifies things. Details like problems with tier 1 and 2 suppliers, snowballing negative press, and many many other things played significant roles in GM and Chrysler going bankrupt. Blaming the UAW, even as "a significant reason" is simply looking for scapegoats and not looking at the real situation.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Couldn't have anything to do with the crap cars they were designing, could it? What did the UAW do to make the Chrysler 200 a pale imitation of a Mercedes? Or a Chevrolet a re-badged Korean Daewoo? I know the big corporations are desperate to find someone to pin their monumental failures on, but the unions aren't it. Poor management, profit milking, lack of investment in product development, entrenched lock-step relations with the oil industry and poor competitor monitoring are the reasons the US motor manufacturers went belly-up. Don't blame it on the unions just because it's the fashionable thing to do these days - blame the wrongs of the world on the unions, not on crap capitalists.

I didn't say it was completely the union's fault, the companies themselves certainly had their share of responsibility, but the unions were at least partially to blame.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

I am no fan of the UAW and it is the union I twice voted against having represent where I worked, however...

Blaming the UAW for GM/Chrysler going bankrupt is incredibly incomplete. First, remember that Ford also has UAW but did not go bankrupt. Toyota is not unionized, but had serious problems over the same time period. What caused GM/Chrysler to go bankrupt was a bad economy and very poor management decisions, plus the UAW contract.

Secondly, you cannot really blame the UAW for the contract. Their job was to get as much as they can for their workers. They succeeded.

Lastly, realize that pointing the finger to any one or two things as the reason a company the size of GM or Chrysler goes bankrupt is vastly oversimplifying things. This post vastly oversimplifies things. Details like problems with tier 1 and 2 suppliers, snowballing negative press, and many many other things played significant roles in GM and Chrysler going bankrupt. Blaming the UAW, even as "a significant reason" is simply looking for scapegoats and not looking at the real situation.

Trust me, I realize all of this. I work in the automotive industry. To pretend that the UAW doesn't share at least some of the blame though is very naive.
 
Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

Trust me, I realize all of this. I work in the automotive industry. To pretend that the UAW doesn't share at least some of the blame though is very naive.

I did not say they did not have a share of the blame. However, it is not nearly as big a share as many like to suggest.
 
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