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Is flag burning free speech?

Should flag burning be protected as free speech?

  • Yes, I agree with the supreme court ruling

    Votes: 49 81.7%
  • No, flag burning should be illegal/a crime

    Votes: 7 11.7%
  • I am not sure

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Other, explain

    Votes: 3 5.0%

  • Total voters
    60
And so...you see a lot of people here that are OPPOSED to flag burning denying people free speech? Cuz...funny...I dont. Evn those that vehenently disagree with the act have said that it is still within someones 'right' to do so.

ANd you are either being dishonest or horribly naive if you truly believe it is 'just' a piece of cloth. If that were the case there wouldnt be such strong and passionate stands against the acts. The most passionate voices against flag burning typically come from people who have actually had to work and sacrifice. To those individuals I promise you...its not just a piece of cloth. But from the perspective of some spoiled little **** who has equates combat and sacrifice to giving up on the bong party early on a Sunday so he can take a midterm at 11 on Monday and then go down to the big Free Speech rally...well...totally different perspective...

It is, inherently, just a piece of cloth just like the work f*ck is just, inherently, a collection of sounds. Any other meaning attached to either is relative and not a part of the cloth or the word. Meaning is a part of the mind, not the objects we attach it to...
 
Why? A flag is just a piece of cloth. It's usually made in China. Burning it is no different than burning a shirt or a bedsheet. Besides, isn't the proper way to dispose of a flag by burning it?
Reverence is also tossed, along with respect ? I think its good to have some things that are on a sacred level.
The proper way of disposing of an old worn out flag cannot be compared to how it is treated when "alive and well"....
 
So you want to tell people what they can do with their own property instead? As long as no las are being broken, it is their right. By saying the SCOTUS is wrong, you absolutely want to take away someone's right.
Far too many people do not always do the right thing with their property....And , of course, I am discussing public display flags, but even those private ones should be treated with respect..
Whatever happened to respect, honor, sensitivity, civility ?
These are more than just words....
Rights must be limited, we do not have the quality of people to have unlimited rights....
SCOTUS consists of a bunch of old worn out men, they had best remember this, that they too are public servants..
 
It is, inherently, just a piece of cloth just like the work f*ck is just, inherently, a collection of sounds. Any other meaning attached to either is relative and not a part of the cloth or the word. Meaning is a part of the mind, not the objects we attach it to...
And we can regress into being a bunch of wild animals as well, being rude,disrespectful, inconsiderate, selfish....It is happening, right in front of us - the liberals on TV, the liars,the wealthy, the tea party, the criminals and the next-to-be criminals.
 
And we can regress into being a bunch of wild animals as well, being rude,disrespectful, inconsiderate, selfish....It is happening, right in front of us - the liberals on TV, the liars,the wealthy, the tea party, the criminals and the next-to-be criminals.

I'm lost. What does this have to do with my comment on the nature of meaning?
 
Far too many people do not always do the right thing with their property....And , of course, I am discussing public display flags, but even those private ones should be treated with respect..

Public display flags are different. That is either the publics governmental flag or a privately owned flag. You have no right to burn someone else's property and definitely not public property.

It does not matter if you feel what they are doing is right. As long as they are breaking no law, they have the right. Property rights and free speech are much more important than your individual feelings.

Whatever happened to respect, honor, sensitivity, civility ?
These are more than just words....

You are preaching to the choir here. This does not however apply in this situation. I put my life on the line to defend this Republic and what it stands for. I would do it again to protect the right of someone to burn their flag to make a statement. Free speech is to important.

Rights must be limited, we do not have the quality of people to have unlimited rights....

So you would silence dissidents for the sake of what? Someones feelings? PC bull****. We mite as well get rid of the first amendment while we are at it. As long as your right does not infringe upon mine, no other limits are necessary.

SCOTUS consists of a bunch of old worn out men, they had best remember this, that they too are public servants..

Because you know so much better. :doh
 
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"If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag, wash it."

Norman Thomas

If you were to burn a flag, isn't to say that you dislike the USA enough to set on fire the very symbol of it?
 
It is, inherently, just a piece of cloth just like the work f*ck is just, inherently, a collection of sounds. Any other meaning attached to either is relative and not a part of the cloth or the word. Meaning is a part of the mind, not the objects we attach it to...

And the constitution is after all just a piece of paper...
 
And the constitution is after all just a piece of paper...

But...it is just a piece of paper. The words that make up the constitution are, inherently, a collection of symbols. The meaning that we attribute to those symbols is located in our minds and their expression is dependent on the patterns of our action...
 
Burning a copy of the constitution no more negates the symbolism and the force of law behind it than burning a flag would negate the symbolism behind it. Now burning the original wouldn't negate it's legal force, just deprive us of a historical item.

I have to wonder if those who are stating that the burning of the flag is wrong and thus should be illegal because of what it stands for, would maintain it for all other flags including the stars and bars? Because the same principle hold for all flags. Basically it's an all or nothing deal.
 
So you question a person mind just because they see Flag as something more then a piece of cloth?

No, I'm stating that it is a piece of cloth, no matter what anyone thinks. What do you think a flag is made of? Cloth. Okay, I suppose some can be made of plastic, but the normal material such things are made of is some form of cloth. So there is no argument about what these flags actually are, is there? If an individual attributes something more to that piece of cloth, that's their problem. It's still a piece of cloth.
 
Reverence is also tossed, along with respect ? I think its good to have some things that are on a sacred level.
The proper way of disposing of an old worn out flag cannot be compared to how it is treated when "alive and well"....

You can revere or respect it as you wish, you're welcome to feel however you want about it. You cannot, however, mandate how others must feel about it. The simple fact is, a flag is a piece of property, people buy and sell them every day. There is a very basic concept, enshrined in our society and, according to some, made a symbol by the flag, that says people have the freedom to do with their own personal, private property whatever they wish, so long as it doesn't harm others.

You'd rather worship a piece of cloth and ignore everything it stands for. That's sad.
 
And the constitution is after all just a piece of paper...

Yes it is, and if you buy a copy of the Constitution, you're more than welcome to burn it if you want. Of course, since the original Constitution cannot be bought and is the property of the United States as a whole, obviously that doesn't apply.
 
Yes it is, and if you buy a copy of the Constitution, you're more than welcome to burn it if you want. Of course, since the original Constitution cannot be bought and is the property of the United States as a whole, obviously that doesn't apply.

If it is as simple, cut and dried as you want to pretend it is we wouldnt be having this discussion, now would we. There wouldnt be lawsuits, demonstrations, court rulings, etc. Pretending it is 'just' a piece of cloth is simply foolish. But hey...show some balls. Go to an American legion hall and burn that cloth. Go to a VA hospital. Find out just how many people disagree with you.

Just a piece of cloth to people that have never had to sacrifice for it. And thats OK...you have the right to feel that way.
 
If it is as simple, cut and dried as you want to pretend it is we wouldnt be having this discussion, now would we. There wouldnt be lawsuits, demonstrations, court rulings, etc. Pretending it is 'just' a piece of cloth is simply foolish. But hey...show some balls. Go to an American legion hall and burn that cloth. Go to a VA hospital. Find out just how many people disagree with you.

Just a piece of cloth to people that have never had to sacrifice for it. And thats OK...you have the right to feel that way.

It is, inherently, just a piece of cloth. The meaning that we give it comes from our minds. Why is that so difficult to understand? The reason people get upset when you burn it is because of the meaning they project onto it from their minds. This is just a fact. No object is inherently anything. This is why children need to be taught the meaning of the American flag.
 
If it is as simple, cut and dried as you want to pretend it is we wouldnt be having this discussion, now would we. There wouldnt be lawsuits, demonstrations, court rulings, etc. Pretending it is 'just' a piece of cloth is simply foolish. But hey...show some balls. Go to an American legion hall and burn that cloth. Go to a VA hospital. Find out just how many people disagree with you.

Just a piece of cloth to people that have never had to sacrifice for it. And thats OK...you have the right to feel that way.

Go onto private property and antagonize? Not really the best of all ideas, huh?
 
"If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag, wash it."

Norman Thomas

If you were to burn a flag, isn't to say that you dislike the USA enough to set on fire the very symbol of it?

Or that you dislike the US government enough to set on fire the very symbol of it.
 
Go onto private property and antagonize? Not really the best of all ideas, huh?

WHat could POSSIBLY be wrong with that? since its 'just' a piece of cloth.
 
WHat could POSSIBLY be wrong with that? since its 'just' a piece of cloth.

People usually don't take too kindly to strangers showing up, burning **** on their private property. I mean, I can similarly say you can come onto my property and burn anything you want and we can see how well that flies.
 
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WHat could POSSIBLY be wrong with that? since its 'just' a piece of cloth.

It's not their property not to mention they would be charged with arson.

This is a REALLY stupid argument. Ikari is absolutly right as is the SCOTUS.

Property rights and freedom of speech are to important to start restricting them because someones feelings mite get hurt.

PS I thought libertarians were supposed to be the champions of property rights and free speech?
 
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It is, inherently, just a piece of cloth. The meaning that we give it comes from our minds. Why is that so difficult to understand? The reason people get upset when you burn it is because of the meaning they project onto it from their minds. This is just a fact. No object is inherently anything.

By the same token, you're just a collection of random chemicals worth less than it would cost to extract them. All value is subjective because valuation is a process of the mind.
 
By the same token, you're just a collection of random chemicals worth less than it would cost to extract them. All value is subjective because valuation is a process of the mind.

I agree. Human beings do not have an an inherent value. Any meaning that we attribute to ourselves is purely subjective in located in our minds. This phenomenon is why philosophers and scientists have tried for centuries to understand the nature of the mind and the self.
 
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