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Is flag burning free speech?

Should flag burning be protected as free speech?

  • Yes, I agree with the supreme court ruling

    Votes: 49 81.7%

  • No, flag burning should be illegal/a crime

    Votes: 7 11.7%

  • I am not sure

    Votes: 1 1.7%

  • Other, explain

    Votes: 3 5.0%
  • Total voters
    60
Radical Ron said:
Flag burning isn't really free speech but what are you going to do? I mean it is the symbol of our great land and I think it's shameful when it is burned in protest.
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Page 4, Post #33
 
Yes it is free speech.
 
cpgrad08 said:
There is a huge difference between retiring a flag and burning in protest. When we burn the Flag to retire it's done in a ceremony with the UT most respect to the Flag and to what it represent. When you burn the flag in protest it usually done to show one's disrespect/hatred to what it represent.
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Actually, the burning is supposed to be done in private with no ceremony. Now by no cermony I don't think it means just chunk it on the fire. It should be done with respect and dignity. I take my flags to bonfires I hold and add them there. I find it appropriate that they should help kick off a celebration of freedoms.

I'll have to find my little book of flag ettequte(sp) and post the actul passage here.
 
Arcadius said:
Am I the only one that just sees a colorful piece of cloth?
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Probably... It's not the "cloth" as you put it but what it symbolize. Symbolism is important to many people.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Probably... It's not the "cloth" as you put it but what it symbolize. Symbolism is important to many people.
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I agree, but we can't control what symbolism everyone puts into it. Obviously someone who burns the flag considers it to be a symbol, and considers burning it to be symbolic as well. Symbolism is quite important to them as well. They just see it as a different symbol than those who oppose burning the flag.
 
Tucker Case said:
I agree, but we can't control what symbolism everyone puts into it. Obviously someone who burns the flag considers it to be a symbol, and considers burning it to be symbolic as well. Symbolism is quite important to them as well. They just see it as a different symbol than those who oppose burning the flag.
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I agree with you. Just letting Arcadius now that the Flag means more to most people one way or another.
 
The flag means something to me, but free speech means even more. If someone buys a flag to burn, then so be it as it is their property. Does not mean I have to like it but I do have to respect their rights.
 
cpgrad08 said:
I agree with you. Just letting Arcadius now that the Flag means more to most people one way or another.
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Very true.

It's interesting because I don't personally place any symbolism on the flag. I have no internal reaction whatsoever to seeing it burned, but I would never actually burn one myself because I know that others feel so strongly about it and I because of that I consider it a douchebag-type thing to do.
 
Tucker Case said:
Very true.

It's interesting because I don't personally place any symbolism on the flag. I have no internal reaction whatsoever to seeing it burned, but I would never actually burn one myself because I know that others feel so strongly about it and I because of that I consider it a douchebag-type thing to do.
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The flag means many thing to me. My Country, Our History and Traditions, Those who have died in her service. So you could say I slighty feel strong about our Flag.
 
cpgrad08 said:
The flag means many thing to me. My Country, Our History and Traditions, Those who have died in her service. So you could say I slighty feel strong about our Flag.
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And that's why I would never burn it despite not attaching that kind of symbolism to it myself.
 
I am not thinking of taking away any "rights".
Obviously, freedom of speech needs to be defined.
Our flag represents too much, and it must be above being insulted so.
Civility?
Respect?
Sensitivity?
Today, these seem to be forgotten in our discourse and media...

Are these forgotten in a misguided effort to the "fair and just" ?
Our Supreme Count ruling is wrong !....and this is not the first time.
I am in the minority, big time, I know, but much more is needed for me to alter my decision.
 
earthworm said:
I am not thinking of taking away any "rights".
Obviously, freedom of speech needs to be defined.
Our flag represents too much, and it must be above being insulted so.
Civility?
Respect?
Sensitivity?
Today, these seem to be forgotten in our discourse and media...

Are these forgotten in a misguided effort to the "fair and just" ?
Our Supreme Count ruling is wrong !....and this is not the first time.
I am in the minority, big time, I know, but much more is needed for me to alter my decision.
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Why? A flag is just a piece of cloth. It's usually made in China. Burning it is no different than burning a shirt or a bedsheet. Besides, isn't the proper way to dispose of a flag by burning it?
 
earthworm said:
I am not thinking of taking away any "rights".
Obviously, freedom of speech needs to be defined.
Our flag represents too much, and it must be above being insulted so.
Civility?
Respect?
Sensitivity?
Today, these seem to be forgotten in our discourse and media...

Are these forgotten in a misguided effort to the "fair and just" ?
Our Supreme Count ruling is wrong !....and this is not the first time.
I am in the minority, big time, I know, but much more is needed for me to alter my decision.
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So you want to tell people what they can do with their own property instead? As long as no las are being broken, it is their right. By saying the SCOTUS is wrong, you absolutely want to take away someone's right.
 
Cephus said:
Why? A flag is just a piece of cloth. It's usually made in China. Burning it is no different than burning a shirt or a bedsheet. Besides, isn't the proper way to dispose of a flag by burning it?
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The question at hand is burning the Flag in protest Free Speech. There is a certain respectful cermony when you retire (burn) a Flag.
 
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Cephus said:
Besides, isn't the proper way to dispose of a flag by burning it?
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Yes, but it would seem apparent to most that there is a difference between respectfully burning an old, worn flag so that it need not touch the ground and burning the flag in protest because one opposes what it stands for.
 
cpgrad08 said:
The question at hand is burning the Flag in protest Free Speech. There is a certain respectful cermony when you retire (burn) a Flag.
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I think the question at hand is why people are getting so upset over a perceived symbol when, in reality, it means nothing. I get really tired of people attaching so much meaning to a simple piece of cloth, to the point that they're willing to violate what they think it really stands for, freedom.
 
Cephus said:
I think the question at hand is why people are getting so upset over a perceived symbol when, in reality, it means nothing. I get really tired of people attaching so much meaning to a simple piece of cloth, to the point that they're willing to violate what they think it really stands for, freedom.
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It doesn't just mean freedom to many people, though. For a lot of people -especially those who have served in the military- it represents the blood spilled to preserve the nation. this kind of symbolism adds a human element to the flag for many. They don't think of burning the flag as a denial of freedom, but an actual instance of disrespect towards those people who have spilled their blood in defense of the nation. This is not an unreasonable symbolism.

This means that the reality for them is that the flag is much more than just a piece of cloth, despite the fact that you and I might view it as just a piece of cloth.

I don't agree that flag burning should be illegal, but I can certainly understand why some people feel that way and I certainly understand why it is seen as offensive to many.
 
Tucker Case said:
It doesn't just mean freedom to many people, though. For a lot of people -especially those who have served in the military- it represents the blood spilled to preserve the nation. this kind of symbolism adds a human element to the flag for many. They don't think of burning the flag as a denial of freedom, but an actual instance of disrespect towards those people who have spilled their blood in defense of the nation. This is not an unreasonable symbolism.
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Then by all means, if it means that much to someone, they shouldn't burn their flags. However, they have no control over flags owned by other people, nor do they have any say in what is done with them. Like it or not, no one is owed respect, no matter what they've done and the view that somehow burning a piece of cloth is showing disrespect to others is absurd in the extreme. Then again, I guess people who tie their entire emotional views to a piece of cloth aren't terribly rational to begin with.

This means that the reality for them is that the flag is much more than just a piece of cloth, despite the fact that you and I might view it as just a piece of cloth.

I don't agree that flag burning should be illegal, but I can certainly understand why some people feel that way and I certainly understand why it is seen as offensive to many.
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No one has a right not to be offended and for those who react in the extreme, wishing physical violence toward those who would exercise the freedoms guaranteed us in this country, there is something seriously wrong with them.
 
Cephus said:
Then by all means, if it means that much to someone, they shouldn't burn their flags. However, they have no control over flags owned by other people, nor do they have any say in what is done with them. Like it or not, no one is owed respect, no matter what they've done and the view that somehow burning a piece of cloth is showing disrespect to others is absurd in the extreme. Then again, I guess people who tie their entire emotional views to a piece of cloth aren't terribly rational to begin with.



No one has a right not to be offended and for those who react in the extreme, wishing physical violence toward those who would exercise the freedoms guaranteed us in this country, there is something seriously wrong with them.
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So you question a person mind just because they see Flag as something more then a piece of cloth?
 
The flag is a symbol of the State, essentially the government. Burning it in protest against the State is well within the rights and liberties of any individual.
 
I think you're belittling your own ideologies by saying they can be sized up in simple stars and stripes. I also think you're belittling those who have died in your wars by saying they can be defined by simple stars and stripes. It's just a piece of cloth. And as long as it's that person's property they should be able to do whatever they want with it.
 
Cephus said:
Then by all means, if it means that much to someone, they shouldn't burn their flags. However, they have no control over flags owned by other people, nor do they have any say in what is done with them. Like it or not, no one is owed respect, no matter what they've done and the view that somehow burning a piece of cloth is showing disrespect to others is absurd in the extreme. Then again, I guess people who tie their entire emotional views to a piece of cloth aren't terribly rational to begin with.

No one has a right not to be offended and for those who react in the extreme, wishing physical violence toward those who would exercise the freedoms guaranteed us in this country, there is something seriously wrong with them.
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And so...you see a lot of people here that are OPPOSED to flag burning denying people free speech? Cuz...funny...I dont. Evn those that vehenently disagree with the act have said that it is still within someones 'right' to do so.

ANd you are either being dishonest or horribly naive if you truly believe it is 'just' a piece of cloth. If that were the case there wouldnt be such strong and passionate stands against the acts. The most passionate voices against flag burning typically come from people who have actually had to work and sacrifice. To those individuals I promise you...its not just a piece of cloth. But from the perspective of some spoiled little **** who has equates combat and sacrifice to giving up on the bong party early on a Sunday so he can take a midterm at 11 on Monday and then go down to the big Free Speech rally...well...totally different perspective...
 
cpgrad08 said:
So you question a person mind just because they see Flag as something more then a piece of cloth?
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They can see it as a grilled cheese sandwich if they want, that doesn't change the fact that it is, in fact, a piece of cloth.
 
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