Is the Muslim Brotherhood made up of extremist Muslims?

Barbbtx · Feb 11, 2011

Dion said:
Oh ... well so much to cover on this ... here is one intelligence report on The Muslim Brotherhood.

US Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said during a House Intelligence Committee hearing Thursday that Egypt’s branch of the Muslim Brotherhood movement was "a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried al-Qaeda as a perversion of Islam."

US spy chief: Muslim Brotherhood secular - Israel News, Ynetnews

There are lots of people upset by what Clapper said. This is just a sample.

Kirk to Clapper on Muslim Brotherhood: WTF? | The Cable

But the gaffe was enough to invoke the ire of many in Congress, who are warning about the risks of the Muslim Brotherhood coming to power. Kirk, who was a Naval intelligence officer, issued a statement criticizing Clapper Thursday afternoon.

"I am concerned that the DNI's assessment does not agree with recent public statements by senior leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood nor does it agree with the organization's publicly stated goals," Kirk's statement read. "As the world watches these historic events unfolding in Egypt, the United States should support an orderly transition to democracy that prevents the radical Muslim Brotherhood from grabbing power."

earthworm · Feb 11, 2011

Catz Part Deux said:
They aren't well-supported by the Egyptian people, so the assumption that they will gain power if Mubarack steps down is a bit like assuming that the KKK would take over if Hailey Barber stepped down.

But, in our nation, during the last century, the KKK wielded a great deal of local power....And the KKK is still alive, much like binLaden, its in hiding.

earthworm · Feb 11, 2011

Kali said:
Islam should be banned? Are you serious?

Kind of offtopic but everyone please support this Independent Film coming out called Mooz-Lum. It will maybe/hopefully bring awareness to folks in reguards to Muslims in our country. It is about a Muslim American family in a post 9/11. For more info see this review or visit their site please
Movie review: 'Mooz-lum' - latimes.com

"A potent feature debut for writer-director Qasim Basir, "Mooz-lum" attacks Islamist extremism while offering audiences a rare and illuminating depiction of life as a Muslim in America."

We need to wake up in the U.S.A. and understand that Muslims among us are not all evil.

Then, I suggest to the Muslins that they clean house and root out the extremists and O bin Laden....I have no reports of this being done.

spud_meister · Feb 11, 2011

earthworm said:
Then, I suggest to the Muslins that they clean house and root out the extremists and O bin Laden....I have no reports of this being done.

So what have you done to root out the KKK, or do you support them?

mbig · Feb 11, 2011

Dion said:
There might be some extremist arms; yet by and large they are very close in hand to the birth of neoconservatism.

Think ... Paul Wolfowitz and Ayman al-Zawahiri as two examples ... flip side of a similar coin.

The Power of Nightmares : Adam Curtis : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
[video youtube;eOlwbaPe2os]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOlwbaPe2os[/video]

How Ridiculous.
I wonder what Leftist wack job is behind that film.

Neocons want to democracy to spread. IOW, local leaders and people's determining their own fate.
Islamists want a worldwide Islamic Caliphate under Shariah law.

and for the record, Pau Wolfowitz's long time paramour is a progressive Arab Woman who works at the World Bank.
Would Zawahiri date a Jewish woman?

mbig · Feb 11, 2011

Temporal said:
The people in this thread talking about Islam are the people who suddenly became experts after September 11, 2001 and without doing any real reading into history. These are the same people who tend to think that Iraqis are Arabs or think the middle east is one big terrorist regime. At them I laugh.

The Muslim Brotherhood and whether it is or isn't a terrorist organization doesn't matter, because the majority of Egyptians do not support them and they will not be coming to power.

1. Iraq IS an Arab country (80%)

2.

me said:
The Brotherhood & co are only 1/6th of the Parliament but the Largest single party among many factions.
This despite being Suppressed by Mubarak.

I posted an estimate the other day (mine and a secular opposition leader) that this would Double without that suppression.

So they can't leave out what is the largest single party by far at app 1/3 of the electorate; 'The Hood'.

What an amazing string. Full of wrong-headed posts.

One problem, 'Extremist' wasn't defined.
Terrorists are undoubtedly 'extremists' but everything else is open to interpretation.. at least in Islam.
Is wanting Shariah or at least many of it's elements "extremist'?
Penalties for Apostasy, Adultery, Insulting Islam, etc.
That's a solid Majority of Muslims.
Muslims are in the main literalists. "Fundamentalists" as we call the minority who are literalist Christians.
Of course, literalist/fundamentalists Christians everyone loves to Bash, wouldn't support the Barbarity literalist/the majority of Muslims do.

earthworm · Feb 11, 2011

spud_meister said:
So what have you done to root out the KKK, or do you support them?

Meaning ?
People who know me know far better than that....
But you do have a point....I am not a political activist, and I did know of a KKK rally in York County in the previous century. Should I go there and confront them ?
And do not let "independent" fool you.

Ockham · Feb 11, 2011

DiAnna said:
I honestly don't know enough about the MB to make such a decision. I do, however, know that the majority of the Egyptian populace wants a secular government which bestows freedom and democracy on its people. If the MB does not stand on such a platform, I believe it will never have enough approval from the majority of Egyptians to gain a "power" position. MB may have representation in the Egyptian parliament in the future... it's not a bad thing to have minority voices heard in government... but I don't forsee a MB candidate for president getting enough votes to actually run the country, let alone toss out the constitution and install an Islamic theocracy.

I pretty much take organizations at their word. The MB states they are extremists, they also state very clearly their intent. I for one believe them.

Turin · Feb 11, 2011

mbig said:
1. Iraq IS an Arab country (80%)

Well Arab is actually a linguistic category, like Romance languages and yes about 80% speak Arabic. I had thought he meant Iran. However, the point Temporal made about average americans knowledge of the mid east is correct.

mbig said:
One problem, 'Extremist' wasn't defined.
Terrorists are undoubtedly 'extremists' but everything else is open to interpretation.. at least in Islam.
.

Good point.

Ockham said:
I pretty much take organizations at their word. The MB states they are extremists, they also state very clearly their intent. I for one believe them.

I do not know enough about all of the MB and I would suspect it has many components just like Christians ... which are a mix of faithful people who follow Christ, Nazis, KKK, Fred Phelps types ... all kinds.

However, their predominant word is speaking out against terrorism. Core value of most who subscribe to MB ... I do not know.

Define extremist that you reference in your post.

Ockham · Feb 11, 2011

Dion said:
I do not know enough about all of the MB and I would suspect it has many components just like Christians ... which are a mix of faithful people who follow Christ, Nazis, KKK, Fred Phelps types ... all kinds.

However, their predominant word is speaking out against terrorism. Core value of most who subscribe to MB ... I do not know.

Define extremist that you reference in your post.

FIrst, I'd suggest reading something other than the Wiki page on the Muslim Brotherhood. I've provided some links at the bottom of this page. Second, when the MB identifies in their own core values what their stated goals are, you should believe them. "Islam is the solution" and "Jihad is our way". Their organization bred multiple terrorists groups, they've assassinated in the past - but now that the media says "they denounce violence" we're all supposed to believe it?

Define extremists:

Unremittingly negative. In past decades, the group had a blatantly anti-Semitic agenda, translating Hitler’s Mein Kampf and the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion into Arabic and disseminating them to foment hatred of the Jews. More recently, it has contented itself with railing against “U.S. and Zionist domination.” The Brotherhood does not recognize Israel, and it crossed sectarian lines to openly support the Shiite militant group Hezbollah during the 2006 Lebanese war with Israel. Recently, Brotherhood leaders have given mixed signals about whether they would actually seek to abandon Egypt’s 1979 peace treaty with Israel.

Extremists that came out of the MB... read the PDF linked here - this is a translated PDF document which outlines what the MB in America are all about.

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/PDF/exhibit-033-0085-muslims.pdf

It's a global organization. I'm no expert on the MB, but in the last week I've read a lot about them. They're no secular group which helps little old ladies across the street and holds rally's against violence. Their history going back to Sayyid Qutb and Al Bana. For an organization who's views were started in Jihad and has existed for 80 years as a violent group, all of a sudden they've turned a new leaf? I guess I'm just the cynic.

Here's some more information:
Muslim Brotherhood

Understanding the Muslim Brotherhood - The Week

spud_meister · Feb 11, 2011

earthworm said:
Meaning ?
People who know me know far better than that....
But you do have a point....I am not a political activist, and I did know of a KKK rally in York County in the previous century. Should I go there and confront them ?
And do not let "independent" fool you.

Meaning, that you say Muslims have to root out OBL, what responsibility does an Indonesian Muslim have to OBL's actions?

Muslims are not a homogeneous group, and saying that they share a responsibility to root out the extremists is ridiculous, akin to me saying all Americans should be rooting out the KKK.

Barbbtx · Feb 11, 2011

Ockham said:
Extremists that came out of the MB... read the PDF linked here - this is a translated PDF document which outlines what the MB in America are all about.

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/PDF/exhibit-033-0085-muslims.pdf

It's a global organization. I'm no expert on the MB, but in the last week I've read a lot about them. They're no secular group which helps little old ladies across the street and holds rally's against violence. Their history going back to Sayyid Qutb and Al Bana. For an organization who's views were started in Jihad and has existed for 80 years as a violent group, all of a sudden they've turned a new leaf? I guess I'm just the cynic.

Here's some more information:
Muslim Brotherhood

Understanding the Muslim Brotherhood - The Week

this **** creeps me out:wow:

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/PDF/exhibit-033-0085-muslims.pdf

8- Absorbing Muslims and winning them with all of their factions and colors in America
and Canada for the settlement project, and making it their cause, future and the basis of
their Islamic life in this part of the world:
This issues requires from us to learn "the art of dealing with the others", as people are different
and people in many colors. We need to adopt the principle which says, "Take from people ... the
best they have", their best specializations, experiences, arts, energies and abilities. By people here
we mean those within or without the ranks of individuals and organizations. The policy of
"taking" should be with what achieves the strategic goal and the settlement process. But the big
challenge in front of us is: how to connect them all in "the orbit" of our plan and "the circle" of
our Movement in order to achieve "the core" of our interest. To me, there is no choice for us
other than alliance and mutual understanding of those who desire from our religion and those
who agree from ow belief in work. And the U.S. Islamic arena is full of those waiting ...., the
pioneers.

Khayembii Communique · Feb 11, 2011

spuddy said:
Meaning, that you say Muslims have to root out OBL, what responsibility does an Indonesian Muslim have to OBL's actions?

Muslims are not a homogeneous group, and saying that they share a responsibility to root out the extremists is ridiculous, akin to me saying all Americans should be rooting out the KKK.

But if Muslims aren't homogeneous, then we can't rail against them as the "other"! Then all we're left with are homosexuals, abortion recipients, atheists, immigrants, union workers, welfare recipients, democrats, liberals, climate change activists, the Fed, taxes/the IRS...

Apocalypse · Feb 12, 2011

Well, they are an Islamist organization, which is enough for me to label them as extremists, but beyond that they are also the parent organization of Hamas and are maintaining ties with terrorist organizations from all around the world, so I'm struggling to see how is this even a question.

Josie · Feb 12, 2011

With all the information presented on this thread, how can anyone say they are NOT extreme?

Turin · Feb 12, 2011

Ockham said:
FIrst, I'd suggest reading something other than the Wiki page on the Muslim Brotherhood.

Define extremists:

Extremists that came out of the MB...

That is deflection ... I do not use Wiki when researching anything. You have no clue of me or what I have read or not read. I stated I do not know all ... yet have traveled to the Mideast and in my healthcare research position report to both a Israeli and a Syrian. I read one of the links you provided yet spent time on more academic research of the topic although not enough time in the past week to come to a conclusion and simply stated such.

Now ... is that settled on your wiki deflection of my previous post?

Next ... You are jumping to one extreme already. The MB as you stated is a global organization. The majority are non violent and reject terrorism. Yes, there might be side arms that have supported extremism. Yes, most global organizations with religious roots have those factions.

I am not making any case for the MB beyond open observation to watch how this unfolds in Egypt.

Besides, I take a more libertarian view on foreign policy and think US should stay out of their new found voice and for the most part non violent revolt against a dictator. (although as far dictators rule Mubarek was not on the level of SH or others). Yet, there were no open elections or democratic process.

I am not going to follow only cherry picked jihad WorldNutDaily news.

I wish for a peaceful and non violent transition for Egypt and they work through their revolution as our country did not so long ago.

MSgt · Feb 12, 2011

spud_meister said:
So what have you done to root out the KKK, or do you support them?

The KKK has been "rooted" out. The fact that an insignificant organization remains under the same laws that protect the insignificant Nazi Party wannabes does little to defend the overwhelming influential presence of the Muslim Brotherhood. The KKK will not control government. No member will be elected to power. And no national policy will resort to KKK guidance.

Until the MENA region goes through a religious reformation and weeds out their extremist organizations, they will be forever tied to social failure, and thus celebrate religious terror and extremism upon themselves and others.

Course...that's just me using my brain to look at the obvious.

pragmatic · Feb 12, 2011

DiAnna said:
I honestly don't know enough about the MB to make such a decision. I do, however, know that the majority of the Egyptian populace wants a secular government which bestows freedom and democracy on its people. If the MB does not stand on such a platform, I believe it will never have enough approval from the majority of Egyptians to gain a "power" position. MB may have representation in the Egyptian parliament in the future... it's not a bad thing to have minority voices heard in government... but I don't forsee a MB candidate for president getting enough votes to actually run the country, let alone toss out the constitution and install an Islamic theocracy.

Believe the Muslim Brotherhood already has a sizable footprint in the Egyptian parliament. Mubarak prevented them from having an even larger presence. Would say that the current state of Egypt is (unfortunately) an ideal environment for a driven minority (such as the MB) to capture control of the government.

Hope/wish the best for the people of Egypt. But am not optimistic about what is going to evolve from this current vacuum.

If the Muslim Brotherhood does rise to power in that country it will not be a good thing for the majority of Egyptians or the world in general. Just an opinion....

.

Turin · Feb 12, 2011

Cole said:
Believe the Muslim Brotherhood already has a sizable footprint in the Egyptian parliament. Mubarak prevented them from having an even larger presence. Would say that the current state of Egypt is (unfortunately) an ideal environment for a driven minority (such as the MB) to capture control of the government.

Hope/wish the best for the people of Egypt. But am not optimistic about what is going to evolve from this current vacuum.

If the Muslim Brotherhood does rise to power in that country it will not be a good thing for the majority of Egyptians or the world in general. Just an opinion....

.

Good point on the Parliament ... and I do agree any thing could happen at this point. I hope for the best for the people of Egypt.

Their culture, conservative social lifestyle, laws are different ... yet I hope whatever happens it is step closer to real freedom for the people. It may not be ideal ... just another step closer.

Fascinating point in history of the mid east to watch this unfold ...

Ockham · Feb 12, 2011

Dion said:
That is deflection ... I do not use Wiki when researching anything. You have no clue of me or what I have read or not read. I stated I do not know all ... yet have traveled to the Mideast and in my healthcare research position report to both a Israeli and a Syrian. I read one of the links you provided yet spent time on more academic research of the topic although not enough time in the past week to come to a conclusion and simply stated such.

Now ... is that settled on your wiki deflection of my previous post?

It was not meant as a deflection. It was meant to show that Wiki is not by far the most reliable source and that it is best to utilize multiple sources.

Dion said:
Next ... You are jumping to one extreme already. The MB as you stated is a global organization.

Actually, the links I provided stated they are a global society.

Dion said:
The majority are non violent and reject terrorism. Yes, there might be side arms that have supported extremism. Yes, most global organizations with religious roots have those factions.

So your stating that Christian Missionary organizations which are global have groups which are extremists? Can you provide an example?
How about Buddhist Missionaries like the following: Buddhist Missionary Society. Do they have extremist arms? Example?

Dion said:
I am not making any case for the MB beyond open observation to watch how this unfolds in Egypt.

That's fine.

Dion said:
Besides, I take a more libertarian view on foreign policy and think US should stay out of their new found voice and for the most part non violent revolt against a dictator. (although as far dictators rule Mubarek was not on the level of SH or others). Yet, there were no open elections or democratic process.

I am not going to follow only cherry picked jihad WorldNutDaily news.

You don't have to. You just need to listen to the MB and what they THEMSELVES say, unless you have another very good reason to not believe their own words.

Dion said:
I wish for a peaceful and non violent transition for Egypt and they work through their revolution as our country did not so long ago.

As do we all. I just hope groups like the MB also wish for that.

Is the Muslim Brotherhood made up of extremist Muslims?