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New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

What of the New Ban.

  • Good

    Votes: 19 27.1%

  • Too far

    Votes: 49 70.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • Total voters
    70
ludahai said:
If one wants to smoke, fine. Just don't subject non-smokers to your cancer-causing poison...
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That is a fair request. Not asking that they make tobacco illegal like heroin.

But a cigarrette addict usually can't go two hours without a smoke so limiting areas of smoking will limit their addiction.

With a typical addict's response they try to garner support from others. Thus they try to convince non-smokers that they may lose all their rights if banning occurs.

Then of course anyone opposed to smoking must be a nazi.

These are desperate people. I wouldn't be surprized in another 10 years you will be hard pressed to fine cigarettes for sale. With continuing lawsuits against the US tobacco industry coupled with a diminishing market changes are on the way. It would not be surprizing if they ship their product to a more receptive Asian market and simply ignore the US market.
 
Crosscheck said:
That is a fair request. Not asking that they make tobacco illegal like heroin.

But a cigarrette addict usually can't go two hours without a smoke so limiting areas of smoking will limit their addiction.

With a typical addict's response they try to garner support from others. Thus they try to convince non-smokers that they may lose all their rights if banning occurs.

Then of course anyone opposed to smoking must be a nazi.

These are desperate people. I wouldn't be surprized in another 10 years you will be hard pressed to fine cigarettes for sale. With continuing lawsuits against the US tobacco industry coupled with a diminishing market changes are on the way. It would not be surprizing if they ship their product to a more receptive Asian market and simply ignore the US market.
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Many areas of Asia are also beginning to restrict smoking, as well. Taiwan, where I live, has passed some anti-public smoking legislation and they are considering more restrictions -- though that will likely be shelved until after our legislative elections later this year. Singapore and Hong Kong also have anti-public smoking provisions. Japan and Korea, while behind Taiwan, are also putting restrictions in place. Personally, I would like to see higher taxes here in Taiwan on cigs. They are still way too inexpensive -- especially considering our national health care system is strained, partly due to treating smoking-related diseases...
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, and another reality is that we live in a free society where tobacoo is legal and some people are going to choose to use it. We reap a lot of tax dollars and benefit from it as well. Someone smoking in a park while you walk by is not going to kill you, it's just a bad smell and there's plenty of those to go around. You're rights are not being violated at all by someone smoking near your proximity. Your senses are offended is all, and there's no right against being offended.
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I don't know if that's factually true or not as I have not researched the subject. There are plenty of studies done on indoor smoking and even exposure in parts per billion can cause health problems. It could maybe be argued that outdoor air dilutes it further so it's not a risk but I want to see that in writing before we just assume it's okay. In theory, the fact that I can smell it means that I am already being exposed in parts per billion.

Again, I have no problem with people choosing to do it but I don't think that warrants exposing others on a whim. If I have a picnic all setup with my family, why should I have to move because someone decided to light up a few feet away from me? THEY should move. I'm not packing up all my **** because of one inconsiderate asshole. The incentive should be theirs, not mine.
 
Arcadius said:
If someone wants drugs they're going to get drugs. It's simple, we can educate people on drugs negative effects, and we'll still have rehab clinics. But the amount of revenue that's supporting organized crime, should be supporting our economy.
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Sure, I can agree with that idea, but I was hoping to have a slightly deeper conversation.

How many heroin addicts earn an income which can support their addiction? Is there such a thing as a functional methadone addict like a functioning alcoholic?
 
Blackdog said:
That would depend on the person, medical history, number of years smoked and if the smoking did actually contribute at all. For example: My grandfather died of colon cancer. Had nothing at all to do with his smoking. My father however died of lung cancer as did my aunt. Neither of them smoked at all.



Smoking may or may not do anything to you at all. You are speculating at best. What I stated are tangible FACTS. Those things do destroy lives, period. Smoking may or may not depending on many factors.

Now does smoking increase your risk? Yes. Is it guaranteed? No. That's why it is called a risk.
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A couple years ago, smokers in SD got their hackles up over smoking on a brake in their car parked on the employer's property.

The employer's argument was it was their property, so if they said no smoking, then you had to leave the property.

The smoker's argument was it was their property, so they had the right to smoke in their car if they wanted.

The courts sided with the smokers, saying that the car was an extension of the individual, and that employers had to allow smoking in cars parked on their property.

Many employers responded with strict rules about how the car has to be closed, windows rolled up, and the smoker can't smell like smoke when they return from their brake.

A similar legal fight was waged over the storage of firearms in vehicles on employer property. In that case also, unless there was a separate reason for disallowing the firearm, such as the property being in a gun-free zone, the employer has to allow the firearm.
 
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Jerry said:
A couple years ago, smokers in SD got their hackles up over smoking on a brake in their car parked on the employer's property.

The employer's argument was it was their property, so if they said no smoking, then you had to leave the property.

The smoker's argument was it was their property, so they had the right to smoke in their car if they wanted.

The courts sided with the smokers, saying that the car was an extension of the individual, and that employers had to allow smoking in cars parked on their property.

Many employers responded with strict rules about how the car has to be closed, windows rolled up, and the smoker can't smell like smoke when they return from their brake.

A similar legal fight was waged over the storage of firearms in vehicles on employer property. In that case also, unless there was a separate reason for disallowing the firearm, such as the property being in a gun-free zone, the employer has to allow the firearm.
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Smoking was banned on company property where I work. Now smokers walk a quarter mile, cross the street and smoke on a street corner for their ten minute break. They have enough time walk there, smoke half a cigarette and walk back, but dozens of them do it anyway. It's a tough addiction. They can not smoke in their cars.
 
USA_1 said:
Smoking was banned on company property where I work. Now smokers walk a quarter mile, cross the street and smoke on a street corner for their ten minute break. They have enough time walk there, smoke half a cigarette and walk back, but dozens of them do it anyway. It's a tough addiction. They can not smoke in their cars.
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I once worked for an employer who got around the law by simply refusing to hire smokers. This employer cited health care costs and flammable materials as the rational. I was told then that the employer was sued in a class action suit by current and former employees, but the employer won. He didn't win because 'discrimination is ok' or anything like like that, he won because in the hiring process you certified that you did not smoke and agreed that you would not start smoking while in their employ or you understood that you would be fired. The employee broke the contract.

I wonder how many meth addicts could even wait until brake to get their fix.
 
USA_1 said:
Smoking was banned on company property where I work. Now smokers walk a quarter mile, cross the street and smoke on a street corner for their ten minute break. They have enough time walk there, smoke half a cigarette and walk back, but dozens of them do it anyway. It's a tough addiction. They can not smoke in their cars.
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I think it's the hardest somewhat acceptable addiction to break. Most people frown upon smokers. They are getting to be social outcasts. I'm glad I was able to quit.
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
I think it's the hardest somewhat acceptable addiction to break. Most people frown upon smokers. They are getting to be social outcasts. I'm glad I was able to quit.
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Me too....
 
USA 1,
How's my lungs?
That's a bit personal isn't it?
No matter I go for walks everyday, and my lungs still work.
For the record how much you weigh, and how is your heart?

As far as shortened my lifespan who wants to spend their last years in a nurseing home or popping 20 pills a day or wearing depends, and uesing Viagra. on a diet of bland foods,

That may be how you want to go out but that lifestyle is not for me.
The key word is individualism.
Just because you want to live to 120, don't mean everybody else does.
 
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presluc said:
How's my lungs?
That's a bit personal isn't it?
No matter I go for walks everyday, and my lungs still work.
For the record how much you weigh, and how is your heart?

As far as shortened my lifespan who wants to spend their last years in a nurseing home or popping 20 pills a day or wearing depends, and uesing Viagra. on a diet of bland foods,

That may be how you want to go out but that lifestyle is not for me.
The key word is individualism.
Just because you want to live to 120, don't mean everybody else does.
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Most people want to live past 60 and enjoy their retirement and not be stuck in a nursing home hooked to an oxygen tank.

I am 6'1" and weigh 185. My heart is in good shape and I can run for an hour.
Had I not quit smoking 25 years ago I could not say that.

The most important thing in ones life is your health. You can have everything else in the world, but if you don't have your health it doesn't mean ****.
 
Temporal said:
Again, I have no problem with people choosing to do it but I don't think that warrants exposing others on a whim. If I have a picnic all setup with my family, why should I have to move because someone decided to light up a few feet away from me?
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Because we live in a free society.

Temporal said:
THEY should move. I'm not packing up all my **** because of one inconsiderate asshole. The incentive should be theirs, not mine.
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Don't pact up all your **** then. But in essence, you're behaving the exact same way that you're arguing against. You're being a jerk demanding that everyone cow tow to your demands in public. You don't want X, thus no one should be allowed to do X around you. Sorry, but in a free society lots of people are going to do things that you don't like; you have to learn to live with it.
 
USA_1 said:
You can have everything else in the world, but if you don't have your health it doesn't mean ****.
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I'd say you can have everything else in the world, but if you don't have your freedom it doesn't mean ****. I'd rather die young and free than old and enslaved.
 
Ikari said:
I'd say you can have everything else in the world, but if you don't have your freedom it doesn't mean ****. I'd rather die young and free than old and enslaved.
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Freedom? Being enslaved to nicotine is freedom?
If you have freedom but not your health then freedom isn't all that great.
 
USA_1 said:
Freedom? Being enslaved to nicotine is freedom?
If you have freedom but not your health then freedom isn't all that great.
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I smoke and I scuba, play paintball and everything else I want to do. I retired at 45.

So again you are speculating on something that has thousands of contributing factors.

Am I in a higher risk group for certain things? Yes. Does this mean you have no risk? No.
 
Blackdog said:
I smoke and I scuba, play paintball and everything else I want to do. I retired at 45.

So again you are speculating on something that has thousands of contributing factors.

Am I in a higher risk group for certain things? Yes. Does this mean you have no risk? No.
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Thats great you retired early, but don't you want to enjoy it as long as possible? What good is retiring early and then dying soon after or sufferring with emphezima or other smoking related illness the rest of your life? I had a smoking co-worker that retired at 50 to pursue his dream as a pro bass angler. A year later he was diagnosed with lung cancer. After a long illness he died a year later. My dad was going to retire at 62. He died at 60 from smoking.
I know you aren't going to quit smoking and no one will ever convince you it is the smart thing to do, so there really is no point to go on. I have helped to convince others to quit and it made us all happy when they did.
Have a nice life.
 
USA_1 said:
Thats great you retired early, but don't you want to enjoy it as long as possible?
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Yes

USA_1 said:
What good is retiring early and then dying soon after or sufferring with emphezima or other smoking related illness the rest of your life?
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I am fine. I could be dead in my car tomorrow.

So you are saying if I don't quite those things will happen? You can't, and yet you try and use fear to motivate grown adults who can make decisions for themselves. I guess you are much smarter and know what is best for all of us? Hehehehe!

USA_1 said:
I had a smoking co-worker that retired at 50 to pursue his dream as a pro bass angler. A year later he was diagnosed with lung cancer. After a long illness he died a year later. My dad was going to retire at 62. He died at 60 from smoking.
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Good for them. Their suffering in this life is over and they begin a new journey. I hope they had full lives and lived it to the fullest.

USA_1 said:
I know you aren't going to quit smoking and no one will ever convince you it is the smart thing to do, so there really is no point to go on.
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The "smart" thing would be for you to realize your argument is based on maybes.

USA_1 said:
I have helped to convince others to quit and it made us all happy when they did. Have a nice life.
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Oh I am! Thanks. :)
 
USA_1 said:
Freedom? Being enslaved to nicotine is freedom?
If you have freedom but not your health then freedom isn't all that great.
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Well that's your opinion. As I said, I'd rather die young and free than old and enslaved.
 
Blackdog said:
The "smart" thing would be for you to realize your argument is based on maybes.

:)
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My argument is based on risk and probablities. Just like playing russian roulette. The likelyhood of being shot in the head drops exponentially if one choses not to play.
 
Ikari said:
Well that's your opinion. As I said, I'd rather die young and free than old and enslaved.
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the boast of someone who has done neither.
 
ricksfolly said:
If you believe smoking can cause cancer and are against the Gov ban, you're either playing games or an anti authority extremist.

ricksfolly
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Regular consumption of nicotine can dramatically effect the probabilities of many types of diseases including cancer. At the same accord, tobacco is currently a legal product and as such people should be free to make the choice to use it or not. If you walk by a person who is smoking, you're not going to get cancer nor are your probabilities of getting cancer dramatically effected (not compared to being outside in the radiation, being outside raises your probability of getting cancer too. That being the case, banning smoking outside is rather silly. The real offense is not health concerns, but smell concerns. Some people don't like the smell of cigarettes. I certainly do not like it. But if it's just a smell thing, then too bad too sad. I have to smell all sorts of things outside that I'd rather not.
 
haymarket said:
the boast of someone who has done neither.
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Is there anything other than this insult to your post? No, just making a worthless statement aimed at insulting people instead of contributing to the debate? Yes? Thought so.

Grow up, come back when you wish to engage in debate as an adult.
 
Ikari said:
Well that's your opinion. As I said, I'd rather die young and free than old and enslaved.
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But you are enslaved to nicotine and the tobacco companies. So you won't die free as long as you are an addict. Just young.
 
USA_1 said:
My argument is based on risk and probablities. Just like playing russian roulette. The likelyhood of being shot in the head drops exponentially if one choses not to play.
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Your argument is that if you smoke you will die young. Nothing about probability's etc. In fact I am the only one who has even brought it up.

Here is a perfect example...

So you won't die free as long as you are an addict. Just young.

You don't know this. I know smokers alive and well from the ages from 18 to 97. So your comment is a lie.

This is why you don't even bother to answer my challenges to your statements. You know my points are valid.
 
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