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New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

What of the New Ban.

  • Good

    Votes: 19 27.1%

  • Too far

    Votes: 49 70.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • Total voters
    70
USA-1 said:
Simple question. Do they? Smokers cost society a lot of money. It's fact, not hyperbole.
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I don't think you've got a scrap of evidence that analyzes the taxes smokers pay, including the cigarette taxes and the sales tax charged on cigarette taxes, versus the cost of care for smoking-induced conditions.

People like to talk about the expense and ignore all the taxes smokers pay to maintain the habit.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I don't think you've got a scrap of evidence that analyzes the taxes smokers pay, including the cigarette taxes and the sales tax charged on cigarette taxes, versus the cost of care for smoking-induced conditions.

People like to talk about the expense and ignore all the taxes smokers pay to maintain the habit.
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How much taxes do they pay? Is it $50 billion? I don't think so.


Cig tax vary from 30 cents a pack in Virginia to over 4 bucks a pack in New York.
 
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I don't really give a **** one way or the other. If your freedom to smoke is so precious to you, you can always move somewhere else.
 
It's pretty obvious to me that they are outlawing smoking in places where people go to see and be seen. No one cares about the online gambler that chain smokes in their computer room, or any haggard, aged individual who still smokes. It's all about mentoring by role model. Every time a hot 20 something lights up at the beach, or in the park, several children see them and associate the smoking with being smoking hot.

That's how all of us children of the '60s started. We watched beautiful models smoke cigarettes on TV.

I quit 5 years ago.
 
USA-1 said:
How much taxes do they pay? Is it $50 billion? I don't think so.
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The national average price for a pack of smokes is $4.32 (we pay more that twice than that here in NY). 82% of the price (50% of the price here) is tax.

Nationally, Americans consume over 15 billion packs of cigarettes per year.

So yeah, I do think so.
 
Mickey Shane said:
It's pretty obvious to me that they are outlawing smoking in places where people go to see and be seen. No one cares about the online gambler that chain smokes in their computer room, or any haggard, aged individual who still smokes. It's all about mentoring by role model. Every time a hot 20 something lights up at the beach, or in the park, several children see them and associate the smoking with being smoking hot.

That's how all of us children of the '60s started. We watched beautiful models smoke cigarettes on TV.

I quit 5 years ago.
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By that standard, you could regulate almost any behavior. For example: Football.

The Problem with Football: How to Make It Safer

High School Athlete Loses Leg to Football Injury

Sports-Related Injuries Among High School Athletes --- United States, 2005--06 School Year

Football is a dangerous sport. Participation in football increases the risk for lifetime injury, including a form early-onset dementia ("punch drunk"). What kind of message is Tom Brady sending to our children?

In my opinion, risk is a choice we should have the freedom to make. Unless you can show that smoking outdoors creates risk for anyone other than people voluntarily engaging in the activity, then I don't think you should criminilize that behavior.

I'm actually surprised more people who identify as liberal aren't opposed to sin taxes and these types of regulations, as they inhibit personal choice (it's my body after all) and in practice they are highly regressive. The poorer you are, the more likely you are to be a smoker.

Cigarette Smoking Among Adults --- United States, 2002
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
The national average price for a pack of smokes is $4.32 (we pay more that twice than that here in NY). 82% of the price (50% of the price here) is tax.

Nationally, Americans consume over 15 billion packs of cigarettes per year.

So yeah, I do think so.
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Overall All States’ Average: $1.45 per pack
Major Tobacco States’ Average: 48.5 cents per pack
Other States’ Average: $1.57 per pack

http://tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.pdf

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention estimates that smoking-caused health costs total $10.47 per pack sold and consumed in the U.S.
The average price for a pack of cigarettes nationwide is roughly $5.51 (including statewide sales taxes but not local cigarette or sales taxes, other than NYC’s $1.50 per pack cigarette tax), with considerable state-to-state differences because of different state tax rates,
 
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I did not read this thread to the end (19 pages so far) but since this law is a boneheaded law, why not another boneheaded alternative? Since the same people who would support this type of law want to place serial numbers on bullets why not put serial numbers on cigarette butts? They could be registered to a smoker at the time of the sale and then if the butt is found on the ground we could then know who is responsible for it. Yes my Smartitude is excelent. BAH-HA-HA-HA-HA!
 
USA-1 said:
Overall All States’ Average: $1.45 per pack
Major Tobacco States’ Average: 48.5 cents per pack
Other States’ Average: $1.57 per pack

http://tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.pdf

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention estimates that smoking-caused health costs total $10.47 per pack sold and consumed in the U.S.
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I had a hard time finding recent numbers for national health care expenditures, so I went looking at individual states. The first one I ran across was California, which takes in over a billion and experiences $800 million in expenses from smoking.

Tobacco Tax Revenue
CHIS News - October 21, 2010

There are areas of the US where cigarette taxes more than pay for whatever expenses can be blamed on smoking, and there are some where cigarette taxes are insufficient.
 
earthworm said:
Conservatives love to live in the past, don't they.
And, IMO, these old cigarette ads are far less offensive than todays TV commercials.
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Not all conservatives... believe me, there ARE conservatives who don't need Rush, Beck, Palin and the tobacco industry to do their thinking for them...
 
cpgrad08 said:
Yes am a real preson, am admitting to the fact that SHS can be a danger but to do the degree that some of these groups say that it is. Do you really think if I smoke around you for 30 mins outside that you are going to get cancer or ur chance of getting it increasing.
Isn't a debate a chance to present facts to change other opions? At first I said that SHS is no danger but with the info presented I concide that there is a danager. But also if the Info I researched no the degree that those groups mention aboved and anti-smoking agencies say that it is. Also I was piss off being called heartless demon cause I smoke.
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You admit to not knowing what that danger is. There IS a danger and a risk, and not only of cancer. Children, who are still growing, have a greater risk of developing various respiratory problems from second hand smoke, hence the increasing movement to restrict smoking in public spaces...
 
GhostlyJoe said:
By that standard, you could regulate almost any behavior. For example: Football.

The Problem with Football: How to Make It Safer

High School Athlete Loses Leg to Football Injury

Sports-Related Injuries Among High School Athletes --- United States, 2005--06 School Year

Football is a dangerous sport. Participation in football increases the risk for lifetime injury, including a form early-onset dementia ("punch drunk"). What kind of message is Tom Brady sending to our children?
In my opinion, risk is a choice we should have the freedom to make. Unless you can show that smoking outdoors creates risk for anyone other than people voluntarily engaging in the activity, then I don't think you should criminilize that behavior.

I'm actually surprised more people who identify as liberal aren't opposed to sin taxes and these types of regulations, as they inhibit personal choice (it's my body after all) and in practice they are highly regressive. The poorer you are, the more likely you are to be a smoker.

Cigarette Smoking Among Adults --- United States, 2002
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People CHOOSE to play football or other sports and assume the risk with that choice for themselves. If people want to CHOOSE to smoke for themselves, that is fine with me. However, when that choice infringes in my right to live my life with out emissions from cancer sticks, that is NOT fine with me...
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I had a hard time finding recent numbers for national health care expenditures, so I went looking at individual states. The first one I ran across was California, which takes in over a billion and experiences $800 million in expenses from smoking.

Tobacco Tax Revenue
CHIS News - October 21, 2010

There are areas of the US where cigarette taxes more than pay for whatever expenses can be blamed on smoking, and there are some where cigarette taxes are insufficient.
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From your source:
Using data from the California Health Interview Survey (CHIS), the report estimates the cost of commercial tobacco use in health care spending and lost productivity— totals nearly $800 million dollars a year among California’s American Indian community.Of the total $16.3 billion in tobacco costs Californian residents shoulder each year, American Indians make up 4.4 percent of the costs even though they represent only 2.1 percent of the state population.

From your source:
Total US tax revenue:
$16.6 billion in 2008.
 
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So many high-horses, so little civility. Must be the thin air at those lofty heights.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
The national average price for a pack of smokes is $4.32 (we pay more that twice than that here in NY). 82% of the price (50% of the price here) is tax.

Nationally, Americans consume over 15 billion packs of cigarettes per year.

So yeah, I do think so.
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For the math impaired thats $64,800,000,000 X 82% = $53,136,000,000. Then people should also add in the extra amount that smokers pay in insurance premiums. Also add in the other tobacco products that people use when smoking that isn't included in that 15 billion packs of cigs a year. Yeah...the whole crap about smokers not paying enough to cover medical expenses is bullcrap. They pay in enough to pay for the medical expenses AND to clean up the butts that idiots do throw on the ground.
 
ludahai said:
Smoking is an absolutely disgusting habit and while I used to be rather tolerant of them, I have had smoke blown my way by too many an inconsiderate smoker to even tolerate them anymore.



If they have children who would be forcibly exposed to that smoke, yes...



If you eat junk food in large amounts, while that is a poor choice, it is your choice. It doesn't affect others. When you smoke in a public space, you are affecting others with the poisonous emissions from the cancer sticks that you are lighting up.
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It can be argued that parents who eat junk food in large amounts are hurting their health which can lead to an early death which would leave their children with no parents. So in otherwords you cannot really say that poor eating habits do not affect others.
 
ludahai said:
ANd I would file charges for assault... and in many jurisdictions, a case could be made on that basis...

And those rights I point to are NOT non-existant... as can be seen by an increasingly growing consensus that non-smokers DO have rights... And if you have children in your home, you darn well better believe that smoking in their presense IS child abuse... and you do NOT have an inalienable right to smoke in public in the presense of others... and it is the attitude of people like yourself that make these laws ever more palatable for the majority of people who find your attitude and actions to be disgraceful...
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Assult? You are so funny. Honestly I cannot take you serious on this topic anymore. Assult my ass. haha
 
Jetboogieman said:
you got a "feeling"...

k...

I really don't think anyone thinks you're a heartless demon for smoking.
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I think ludahai called smokers heartless demons but am too tired to go look for it.
 
ludahai said:
People CHOOSE to play football or other sports and assume the risk with that choice for themselves. If people want to CHOOSE to smoke for themselves, that is fine with me. However, when that choice infringes in my right to live my life with out emissions from cancer sticks, that is NOT fine with me...
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Can you show that outdoor smoking infringes on your rights?
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Can you show that outdoor smoking infringes on your rights?
Click to expand...

Just as much you want the right to inhale smoke in public, others want the right not to inhale your smoke in public. What is so hard about that to understand?

If you were chewing nicotine for your addiction I could really give a rip as that is your choice. But I don't want to have to smell that crap.
It is the same reason most municipalities have zoning regulations so that you don't have rendering plants next to public parks.
 
DiAnna said:
So many high-horses, so little civility. Must be the thin air at those lofty heights.
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It's hard to breath with all that smoke.

Do smokers realize that when they smoke a cigarette, then get in a non-smokers' car, there's a faint smoke smell even after they get out? Thanks for that.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
By that standard, you could regulate almost any behavior. For example: Football.

The Problem with Football: How to Make It Safer

High School Athlete Loses Leg to Football Injury



Sports-Related Injuries Among High School Athletes --- United States, 2005--06 School Year

Football is a dangerous sport. Participation in football increases the risk for lifetime injury, including a form early-onset dementia ("punch drunk"). What kind of message is Tom Brady sending to our children?

In my opinion, risk is a choice we should have the freedom to make. Unless you can show that smoking outdoors creates risk for anyone other than people voluntarily engaging in the activity, then I don't think you should criminilize that behavior.

I'm actually surprised more people who identify as liberal aren't opposed to sin taxes and these types of regulations, as they inhibit personal choice (it's my body after all) and in practice they are highly regressive. The poorer you are, the more likely you are to be a smoker.

Cigarette Smoking Among Adults --- United States, 2002
Click to expand...

I am opposed to this type of regulation. I guess I didn't mention that in my previous post. I was simply trying to point out one of the many regulations that are just social engineering in disguise.
 
Crosscheck said:
Just as much you want the right to inhale smoke in public, others want the right not to inhale your smoke in public. What is so hard about that to understand?

If you were chewing nicotine for your addiction I could really give a rip as that is your choice. But I don't want to have to smell that crap.
It is the same reason most municipalities have zoning regulations so that you don't have rendering plants next to public parks.
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It is the outdoors. You can move away. And you cannot show that any smoker that is smoking outside and in public infringes on your rights. What is so hard to understand about if you outside and someone lights up that you should move your ass? Seems simple to me. Unless you are just so anti-smoking that you cannot even think with a level head.
 
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