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Should Voting be a Right or a Privilege?

Is Voting a Right or Privilege?

  • Total voters
    35
DiAnna said:
If voting were a privilege, then only the privileged could vote. Voting is a right... and in my opinion, the duty of every citizen. (That doesn't mean that I favor mandatory voting ala Australia. I don't. I just don't understand those who are apathetic about casting their votes, when there are billions of people on this planet that would give everything for the opportunity to do just that.)
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Well, in California, where there are literally about a hundred different politicians/bureaucrats/officials/board members/district members/etc.to vote for, I'd place a million dollar bet that no single voter (regardless of their interest in politics) has actually taken the time to read about and/or meet and/or follow the numerous people up for election. We've created such a massive bureaucracy in this state, I would imagine 90% of the voters vote strictly on the president, the district reps, the senators, the governor, and maybe some of the state reps and senators. About 5% vote on the candidates running for the various other bureaucratic offices, and I doubt any one of those voters knows a single thing about the candidate. They simply look at the previous occupation listed and vote strictly for the occupation or the party, not the individual.

It's kind of devaluing the whole voting system if the vast majority have no clue who they're voting for.
 
If you don't pay taxes, you don't get to vote. That simple.
 
apdst said:
If you don't pay taxes, you don't get to vote. That simple.
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Oh good - everyone in the world who's ever bought anything in the US, from the US or through US connections can vote in our elections!

What a widespread and novel, futuristic view you have!
 
apdst said:
If you don't pay taxes, you don't get to vote. That simple.
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So that includes all Americans - even lots of children. Great idea.
 
haymarket said:
So that includes all Americans - even lots of children. Great idea.
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Gee whiz! Can children even vote?

To avoid the risk of getting infracted, I'm going to leave it at that. :lamo
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Oh good - everyone in the world who's ever bought anything in the US, from the US or through US connections can vote in our elections!

What a widespread and novel, futuristic view you have!
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In all fairness, apdst said "if you don't pay taxes, you don't get to vote." Not "If you pay taxes, you get to vote."
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Oh good - everyone in the world who's ever bought anything in the US, from the US or through US connections can vote in our elections!

What a widespread and novel, futuristic view you have!
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Only if they're an American citizen. That's already a law, BTW. In case you didn't know that.
 
apdst said:
Gee whiz! Can children even vote?

To avoid the risk of getting infracted, I'm going to leave it at that. :lamo
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:rofl
Seriously, though - no, I don't agree.

Our taxation system is full fo **** - basing a right on who pays in and who doesn't is off the mark.

I support awareness-voting measures as well as a unified information system that's non-partisan but fact-based. I don't think we could ever *require* everyone to "know everything before you vote!" - that's impossible - but we need to place MORE effort on people making an educated vote. The system is faulted because it's set up to be based on popularity - which is just the wrong appraoch to take when it's something so important.
 
apdst said:
Only if they're an American citizen. That's already a law, BTW. In case you didn't know that.
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Everyone (every adult citizen) pays taxes, and I really do mean all of them. So, your stipulation is meaningless.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
:rofl
Seriously, though - no, I don't agree.

Our taxation system is full fo **** - basing a right on who pays in and who doesn't is off the mark.

I support awareness-voting measures as well as a unified information system that's non-partisan but fact-based. I don't think we could ever *require* everyone to "know everything before you vote!" - that's impossible - but we need to place MORE effort on people making an educated vote. The system is faulted because it's set up to be based on popularity - which is just the wrong appraoch to take when it's something so important.
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So, you support the welfare class being a voting block that can vote themselves more welfare money?
 
Dezaad said:
Everyone (every adult citizen) pays taxes, and I really do mean all of them. So, your stipulation is meaningless.
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Not income taxes, they don't.
 
SheWolf said:
I don't understand these debates between Right or a Privilege... since rights are nothing more than social constructs
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I agree that is a social construct, but in my view, a right tends to be an automatic aspect of citizenship while a privilege is somehow earned through activity.
 
Dezaad said:
They still pay taxes. Are you now specifying only those who pay income taxes?
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Yeah, that's what I meant. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
 
apdst said:
Yeah, that's what I meant. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
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If I pay more in income taxes, should I get more votes than you?
 
apdst said:
So, you support the welfare class being a voting block that can vote themselves more welfare money?
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this board is full of such people. most of them are not welfare teat sucklers but those people vote into office the welfare-socialists that these posters like be it due to gay rights, union power environmental extremism or hatred of the rich
 
Hatuey said:
If I pay more in income taxes, should I get more votes than you?
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that would be one way of keeping the masses from voting away the wealth of those who pay most of the taxes
 
apdst said:
So, you support the welfare class being a voting block that can vote themselves more welfare money?
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I've been on welfare. No, I didn't see a problem with me voting while I was on welfare.

All these years later I still don't see a problem there like you're seeing it. I SEE problems with the voting-populous but "the fact that they're on welfare" isn't IT. Bar all welfare recipients from voting and you still HAVE the same overall problem with the voting populous. . . there are serious issues in our country and if you cleave to the notion that "it's all because of welfare" you're just fooling yourself.

(I know we've discussed this before)

I don't think *how much money* one earns means a damn thing as far as that goes. It's values that matter more. What I DO prefer is that people vote fairly - based on the issues - not on race, not on wealth and perceived 'power' and so forth.

You wouldn't be so bitter over this is the "scummy welfare people" were on YOUR side.
 
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Hatuey said:
If I pay more in income taxes, should I get more votes than you?
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Of course a Libbo would ask that question. Cuz with Libobs, it's all about something for nothing.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I've been on welfare. No, I didn't see a problem with me voting while I was on welfare.

All these years later I still don't see a problem there like you're seeing it. I SEE problems with the voting-populous but "the fact that they're on welfare" isn't IT. Bar all welfare recipients from voting and you still HAVE the same overall problem with the voting populous. . . there are serious issues in our country and if you cleave to the notion that "it's all because of welfare" you're just fooling yourself.

(I know we've discussed this before)

I don't think *how much money* one earns means a damn thing as far as that goes. It's values that matter more. What I DO prefer is that people vote fairly - based on the issues - not on race, not on wealth and perceived 'power' and so forth.
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Sorry, I just don't think that people who are second and third generation welfare collectors and have never spent a day off welfare should comprise an entire voting block.

Don't like it? Wanna vote? Get off welfare. It's that simple.

You wouldn't be so bitter over this is the "scummy welfare people" were on YOUR side.
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You don't have to worry about that. I'll never be a member of the, "poor man's party"; a party that is only motivated to create more poor people, because to do otherwise would cost them votes.
 
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apdst said:
Sorry, I just don't think that people who are second and third generation welfare collectors and have never spent a day off welfare should comprise an entire voting block.

Don't like it? Wanna vote? Get off welfare. It's that simple.



You don't have to worry about that. I'll never be a member of the, "poor man's party"; a party that is only motivated to create more poor people, because to do otherwise would cost them votes.
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It's around, what, 10% of the US population receive whole or partial support? If that's 'an entire voting block' then we're far more ****ed than I thought. :)

A lot of people on various forms of welfare do work - they just don't earn enough money from their employment to cover all the costly expenses of living. YES there is a portion which are generationally-dependent and have no desire to get off of assistance - but yet they still don't make the majority of that 10%.

The most beneficial thing would be to have someone who can actually form and put forward actually legislation, programs and support systems that will CHANGE things - Obama's not that guy, McCain isn't - quite a few aren't.

WE have a lot of problems and *just wanting* them to go away won't actually *make* the problems go away. . .and all other measures done by our government are ineffective bits of bull****.
 
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apdst said:
Of course a Libbo would ask that question. Cuz with Libobs, it's all about something for nothing.
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Did you not understand what I asked? TurtleDude did. Did you?
 
TurtleDude said:
that would be one way of keeping the masses from voting away the wealth of those who pay most of the taxes
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How many votes would somebody like Bill Gates get in comparison to people like you and I? Let's play with round figures. Let's say $250,000 in income tax = 1 vote. Say I pay $4,000,000 in income tax. Am I entitled to 16 votes? What about somebody who pays $40,000,000 in income tax? Are they entitled to 160 votes? Obviously this is an example but the point is that the system could simply become subject to the monopoly of the super wealthy. It would also make the middle class as irrelevant in terms economic decision making as it is now. I fail to see the logic in making income tax a determinant in how many votes a person will get if the system will be easily skewed if a candidate manages to convince the right income tax payers.
 
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Hatuey said:
How many votes would somebody like Bill Gates get in comparison to people like you and I? Let's play with round figures. Let's say $250,000 in income tax = 1 vote. Say I pay $4,000,000 in income tax. Am I entitled to 16 votes? What about somebody who pays $40,000,000 in income tax? Are they entitled to 160 votes? Obviously this is an example but the point is that the system could simply become subject to the monopoly of the super wealthy eventually making the middle class as irrelevant in economic decision making as it is now.
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Exactly.
You don't even have to *vote* to exert influence in the political arena if you have what it takes to gain their attention and favor - you can lobby and simply donate to tip things your way if you want.

It's about knowledge and values - and how you use it to influence and exert power.

It's not about your financial standing.
 
apdst said:
Gee whiz! Can children even vote?

To avoid the risk of getting infracted, I'm going to leave it at that. :lamo
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Right now - no, they cannot. But under your new proposed standard

If you don't pay taxes, you don't get to vote. That simple.
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Anyone who pays a tax can then vote. That would include a child who buys something on which there is a tax.
 
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