• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Capital Punishment

What do you think of Capital Punishment?

  • Support it

    Votes: 35 45.5%
  • Condone it

    Votes: 16 20.8%
  • Neutral

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • other (explain)

    Votes: 25 32.5%

  • Total voters
    77
I voted "condone it" and it was a mistake. I meant to vote "don't condone it" because I don't any longer. I did when I was younger. Now I'm old enough to know that we have executed the innocent. We sometimes can't be sure. So I'm in favor of a life term of hard labor as an alternative to the death penalty. A life time busting rocks is no vacation cruise.
Exactly.

I would like to see a functioning education, healthcare, and tax system, before I'd trust my government with something like Capital Punishment.
 
We're not a bunch of savages, and we don't need to kill to get a point across. No person should be deprived of life for their misdeeds, no matter how criminal, but life in captivity should serve as just punishment for any crime.

Sadly that isn's true. Sometimes Death is the only justice. All you that talk about Life with hard labor. What if a man is sentence to that and 70 years laters his sentence is over turn. Do you really think someone then could reenter society and be able to rebuild his life?
 
It seems to me that you're assuming the justice system is going to fail, which I believe it wont 99.9 percent of the time.

No body should be sentenced to death, because in my mind death is the easy way out. A life in captivity is true punishment.
 
It seems to me that you're assuming the justice system is going to fail, which I believe it wont 99.9 percent of the time.

No body should be sentenced to death, because in my mind death is the easy way out. A life in captivity is true punishment.

Sometimes, individuals need to be taken out of the gene pool. Captivity offers a prisoner to still donate DNA - and in some cases that should not be allowed.
 
So I'm in favor of a life term of hard labor as an alternative to the death penalty. A life time busting rocks is no vacation cruise.

The purpose of hard labor is to rehabilitate criminals by making them accustomed to work. What is the purpose of making a man do hard labor if his sentence only ends with death?

And, for that matter, what is the difference between a sentence that ends in death within 10 years and a sentence that ends in death within 30?
 
I'm against it, far too often do people die who end up being innocent.
 
The purpose of hard labor is to rehabilitate criminals by making them accustomed to work. What is the purpose of making a man do hard labor if his sentence only ends with death?

And, for that matter, what is the difference between a sentence that ends in death within 10 years and a sentence that ends in death within 30?
The purpose of "hard labor" in this case is for penance or punishment for taking a life. I'm no lawyer but I meant this definition:
Hard labor is mandated physical labor ordered in connection with a prison term imposed as punishment for a crime.
Hard Labor Law & Legal Definition

I don't know what you mean when you say a sentence that means death within ten years? I'm for a protracted and lengthy punishment rather than the death penalty. Kill some people and you are in your 20s? Means a whole lot of years busting rock. Real punishemnt and should you actually be innocent and the means to prove that becomes available? At least we did not kill you.
 
Sometimes, individuals need to be taken out of the gene pool. Captivity offers a prisoner to still donate DNA - and in some cases that should not be allowed.

Can I be the one to decide who gets taken out of the gene pool? It would be a lot better that way. No retards allowed. If your IQ is below 125, kill yourself.
 
Can I be the one to decide who gets taken out of the gene pool? It would be a lot better that way. No retards allowed. If your IQ is below 125, kill yourself.
You're just being facetious here, right?
 
No body should be sentenced to death, because in my mind death is the easy way out. A life in captivity is true punishment.

It's not just about the perpetrator. Some human beings show through their actions that they pose a risk to everyone else in society. Maintaining them alive requires risking the safety of other human beings, whether those humans are other inmates or the people who have to guard/feed/house them.
 
You're just being facetious here, right?

Well world needs ditch diggers too I suppose. But if we're arbitrarily setting the standard on who deserves to be in the gene pool, I want to be the one to set that standard. No more idiots, I'm tired of dealing with dumb people. And I'll define dumb as anyone below 125 IQ.
 
Well world needs ditch diggers too I suppose. But if we're arbitrarily setting the standard on who deserves to be in the gene pool, I want to be the one to set that standard. No more idiots, I'm tired of dealing with dumb people. And I'll define dumb as anyone below 125 IQ.
But it's not about "arbitrary standards". The people on death row are there because they put themselves there by committing horrible crimes.
 
If there is no doubt you killed someone and/or you admit to it? Kill you and fast. None of this long appeals process either as you should be dead within 6 months.
 
ARe people really worried about the point of hard labor for asswipes? I mean really? lol.
 
But it's not about "arbitrary standards". The people on death row are there because they put themselves there by committing horrible crimes.

They are there because they were convicted of committing horrible crimes. But that doesn't necessarily mean they did. Seeing as the failure mode of the death penalty means executing a person innocent of the charged crimes, it seems perhaps a bit extreme to authorize it. Illinois had to put a moratorium on their DP several years ago because they found that a significant portion of the death row inmates were not the ones who committed the crime they are convicted of. So barring absolute knowledge, it is a bit of an arbitrary line. You'll say people convicted of horrible crimes should be executed and taken out of the gene pool. I'll say dumbasses ruin everything and should be taken out of the gene pool.
 
ARe people really worried about the point of hard labor for asswipes? I mean really? lol.

People are often on death row or on a chain gang because they are poorly educated, black, hispanic, poor or living in the wrong state at the wrong time. Do you believe that justice is meted out fairly, equitably and delivers just and impartial verdicts? You might want to review your 'Very Liberal' lean statement.
 
They are there because they were convicted of committing horrible crimes. But that doesn't necessarily mean they did. Seeing as the failure mode of the death penalty means executing a person innocent of the charged crimes, it seems perhaps a bit extreme to authorize it. Illinois had to put a moratorium on their DP several years ago because they found that a significant portion of the death row inmates were not the ones who committed the crime they are convicted of. So barring absolute knowledge, it is a bit of an arbitrary line. You'll say people convicted of horrible crimes should be executed and taken out of the gene pool. I'll say dumbasses ruin everything and should be taken out of the gene pool.
Well, I'm not the one saying they should be taken out of the gene pool, I just think that someone who commits capital murder and is convicted of it, should pay the ultimate price. Keep in mind, cap murder is worse than ordinary murder. Usually a murder is capital if they've murdered a child, a police officer, more than one person or if they've committed murder while committing another felony. Also, to get a judge or jury to assess the DP, the evidence of guilt has to be pretty overwhelming. The odds of convicting the wrong guy nowadays is virtually nil. Look at the AZ shooting, is there really any question of guilt? If not, regardless of any mental issues he should be put to death. Do you disagree?
 
Last edited:
People are often on death row or on a chain gang because they are poorly educated, black, hispanic, poor or living in the wrong state at the wrong time. Do you believe that justice is meted out fairly, equitably and delivers just and impartial verdicts? You might want to review your 'Very Liberal' lean statement.
People are put on death row or chain gangs because of the crimes they commit, not because of what you claim. I don't think it necessarily goes against anyone's liberal lean to consider the victim over the perpetrator, in fact, I kinda wonder why more liberals don't see it that way. If your heart's gonna bleed, why not bleed for the victims?
 
Last edited:
People are put on death row or chain gangs because of the crimes they commit, not because of what you claim. I don't think it necessarily goes against anyone's liberal lean to consider the victim over the perpetrator, in fact, I kinda wonder why more liberals don't see it that way. If your heart's gonna bleed, why not bleed for the victims?

Trouble is, your heart only appears to bleed for the victims of crimes committed by the poorly educated, or black, or hispanic, or poor criminals. Where's all the outrage about the victims of the rich and well-connected, well-represented criminals whose advantages get them off scot free from the consequences of their actions? It's as if the vicissitudes of the legal system don't really exist, that all is lovely and just and functional, when the world knows otherwise. For that reason it is not the progressives, worrying about miscarriages of justice, who are letting down the victims, it's those who are blasé about how well the system functions who are indifferent to the righteous demands of the victims. The victims of all crimes deserve justice, and justice is not served simply by ensuring that somebody pays a price for every crime, but that the right person pays for the right crime.
 
Last edited:
Being a threat to society is not the only reason to remove someone from it. There's this thing called justice, ever heard of it? And honestly, putting someone in prison has just as many risks, more in fact, of punishing an innocent as the death penalty does. I don't care if you can let them out, no amount of money can compensate someone for years of their life spent rotting in a hole. So let's not punish anyone, we might make a mistake! Oh noes!

Yes but if you mistakenly jail someone for 20 years, they can still seek justice, compensation and a new life. If you mistakenly execute someone (as Kandahar's figures show - that's alarmingly common in the US) - there's no way back for the wronged. Further injustice is that some of your states don't even allow exonneration in the case of mistakes.

There's nothing right or correct about the state killing it's own people, ever. Not in a civilised society anyway.
 
-- And, for that matter, what is the difference between a sentence that ends in death within 10 years and a sentence that ends in death within 30?

An innocent person may have 10 years to prove their innocence whereas fast track death by state means "forget it, we don't care about justice anyway..."
 
An innocent person may have 10 years to prove their innocence whereas fast track death by state means "forget it, we don't care about justice anyway..."

Nothing to do of not caring about Justice. It just that someone should be allowed to appeal only so many times instead of wasting tax payer dollars and having a 30 to 40 years between there trail and the caring out of there sentence.
 
Trouble is, your heart only appears to bleed for the victims of crimes committed by the poorly educated, or black, or hispanic, or poor criminals. Where's all the outrage about the victims of the rich and well-connected, well-represented criminals whose advantages get them off scot free from the consequences of their actions? It's as if the vicissitudes of the legal system don't really exist, that all is lovely and just and functional, when the world knows otherwise. For that reason it is not the progressives, worrying about miscarriages of justice, who are letting down the victims, it's those who are blasé about how well the system functions who are indifferent to the righteous demands of the victims. The victims of all crimes deserve justice, and justice is not served simply by ensuring that somebody pays a price for every crime, but that the right person pays for the right crime.

This is just a really bad argument. It presumes that people who are tough on violent crime don't hold similarly tough views on financial or other types of crimes.

I believe in the death penalty. I've spent time in the prison system, and there is no benefit to maintaining, indefinitely, the life of someone who has committed heinous crimes. They pose a risk to every other inmate in the facility and the people who are hired to guard them. That risk, to me, is unacceptable, particularly when weighed against the benefit of keeping these people alive.

I believe that penalty should be applied equitably to ANY killer who commits a heinous crime. For the record, serial killers are more often white and middle to upper income, and I'm a firm supporter that those folks, above all, should receive the death penalty.

Furthermore, I believe in tough sentences for all types of crimes, and have advocated such on this forum in any number of threads. I believe in prison terms, for instance, for employers who knowingly hire illegal workers. I believe in LONG prison terms for elected officials who accept bribes, who accept tainted campaign donations, or who engage in other types of fraud that undermines our democratic system. I believe in harsh penalties (including a long stay in a standard, not white collar, prison) for white collar criminals (think Enron) who rob other people of their life savings.

I would be perfectly happy, fwiw, if we expanded the death penalty to execute people who kill a child violently or who commit child sexual abuse (the standard is rarely applied in those instances, for some reason, in terms of sentencing, the system seems to treat child killers as less worthy of death than those who kill adults. I see no purpose to maintaining the lives of people who victimize innocent members of society and cause untold harms that extend for generations into the future. Most of those people, for the record, are middle class and white.

I've spent my entire career working with poor black and brown kids in the barrio. Some of my former clients have and will serve long prison terms for multiple and heinous murders. I believe that they, also, should pay the ultimate penalty, in spite of the circumstances of their lives, because justice is blind and should be applied on the basis of the CRIMES COMMITTED, and not the life circumstances of the offender. There is no excuse for taking an innocent person's life.

Do I believe that there is a disproportionate level of sentencing for minorities? Yes. It's undeniable. But that doesn't mean that the sentences that convicted minority offenders are serving are wrong. It means that we need to work harder to hold white offenders accountable to the same level. In fact, there are many areas in which our sentencing needs to be equalized (a good example is the discrepancy between mandatory sentences for cocaine and crack possession in many places).

I understand that you're a progressive, but I can't help thinking, when I read your spirited defenses of these poverty stricken minorities, that you've never actually sat down, face to face, with one of them who has actually killed someone, or even moreso, with his/her victims. I have. I've spent years doing it. I am a merciful person who believes in helping people, to a point. But when you kill someone, you've gone past the point at which I can help you, and we, as a society, need to think primarily about how we will protect innocent people from you.
 
Last edited:
This is just a really bad argument. It presumes that people who are tough on violent crime don't hold similarly tough views on financial or other types of crimes.
You misunderstand me, Catz. I'm not referring to white-collar crime, I'm talking about violent crime, capital crimes committed by people who have money, connections and representation - the things that many or most of those who end up on death row do not have - to ensure they avoid the ultimate penalty. What I'm saying is that justice is not blind and not equitable. The poor, the marginalised and the uneducated will always face the fullest consequences of their actions, whereas the moneyed and influential will not.

I believe in the death penalty. I've spent time in the prison system, and there is no benefit to maintaining, indefinitely, the life of someone who has committed heinous crimes. They pose a risk to every other inmate in the facility and the people who are hired to guard them. That risk, to me, is unacceptable, particularly when weighed against the benefit of keeping these people alive.
I think this is a poor argument unless you can show that it is the prisoners who, according perhaps to people of your mindset, should be executed who form the most serious risk to prison officers. I suspect it is gang-bangers, people of violence and career criminals who, whilst not having committed capital crimes, constitute the greatest numbers and pose the greatest risk to prison staff.
For the record, serial killers are more often white and middle to upper income, and I'm a firm supporter that those folks, above all, should receive the death penalty.
And yet, is it this group that constitutes the major social group represented on death row? No, that would be the poor, mentally ill and poorly-educated.
Furthermore, I believe in tough sentences for all types of crimes, and have advocated such on this forum in any number of threads. I believe in prison terms, for instance, for employers who knowingly hire illegal workers. I believe in LONG prison terms for elected officials who accept bribes, who accept tainted campaign donations, or who engage in other types of fraud that undermines our democratic system. I believe in harsh penalties (including a long stay in a standard, not white collar, prison) for white collar criminals (think Enron) who rob other people of their life savings.
Well, as you might guess, I believe that societies that jail fewer and work hardest to keep criminals out of institutions and still contributing to that society are the healthier for it. To me, incarceration should be almost exclusively used for criminals that have committed violent crime. White-collar and non-violent crime should be dealt with differently using supervision, financial penalties, part-time lock-ups, curfews and such like. I think over your side of the pond you use incarceration as much for political purposes, to show the wider society that the political class "is really tough on crime", as using it in the knowledge that it is working to protect society from future criminality.

I would be perfectly happy, fwiw, if we expanded the death penalty to execute people who kill a child violently or who commit child sexual abuse (the standard is rarely applied in those instances, for some reason, in terms of sentencing, the system seems to treat child killers as less worthy of death than those who kill adults. I see no purpose to maintaining the lives of people who victimize innocent members of society and cause untold harms that extend for generations into the future. Most of those people, for the record, are middle class and white.
I'm aware of this and how you feel about it. We've agreed to disagree on this many times.
Do I believe that there is a disproportionate level of sentencing for minorities? Yes. It's undeniable.
That was my major point.
But that doesn't mean that the sentences that convicted minority offenders are serving are wrong. It means that we need to work harder to hold white offenders accountable to the same level.
I'm not saying those that are from disadvantaged sections of society should not face the consequences of their actions. I'm merely saying that they seem to be the sections that currently do face those consequences. I was calling for a little consideration for the victims of crimes committed by those sections of society who, through their wealth and privilege, manage to avoid the stiffest penalties that their criminality merits.

I understand that you're a progressive, but I can't help thinking, when I read your spirited defenses of these poverty stricken minorities, that you've never actually sat down, face to face, with one of them who has actually killed someone, or even moreso, with his/her victims. I have. I've spent years doing it. I am a merciful person who believes in helping people, to a point. But when you kill someone, you've gone past the point at which I can help you, and we, as a society, need to think primarily about how we will protect innocent people from you.
No, I haven't. I would be a hypocrite to claim that, had I had the same life experiences that you have had, I would feel exactly the same as I do now. I can't and won't say that. What I will say is that I do know of people (family, actually) who work in law enforcement who believe passionately that the DP is wrong and would not help in preventing crime. Your position maybe (how would I know?) a majority opinion amongst people in law enforcement and corrections sectors, but I don't believe that it is universally held. Even if it were, society is the body that should decide these issues, not just the sector of society tasked with administrating justice.
 
Back
Top Bottom