- Joined
- Sep 3, 2010
- Messages
- 120,954
- Reaction score
- 28,531
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
Hmmm, I didn't use the Nolan chart.
Pay better attention next time. :coffeepap
sure - no libertarians ever use the nolan chart....:roll:
Hmmm, I didn't use the Nolan chart.
Pay better attention next time. :coffeepap
Irrelevant my aunt emma. It was created by libertarians for the expressed purpose of charting libertarians to justify the various opinions of libertarians and not place them as rightists on he normal continuum in American political thinking.
That was the entire purpose of it.
You understand this and I understand this, but quite a few others in this thread, do not.
They are very quick to assume, German Conservative = American Conservative.
Yep, and that's certainly not the case. I believe I posted this in another thread a while ago, but I do it again. The political parties in the Weimar Republic are usually placed on the left/right-spectrum in this manner:
RIGHT: -- DNVP (monarchist anti-republicans) -- DVP (national-liberal republic-sceptics) -- Catholic Centrists (Christian pro-republicans) -- DDP (social liberal pro-republicans) -- SPD (anti-revolutionary Marxist pro-republicans) -- KPD (pro-revolutionary Marxist-Leninist anti-republicans) -- LEFT
The American Republicans are, as far as I know, not homogenous, but combine many different philosophies and schools of thought. Three important among them seem to be Christian right (social conservatives who are not necessarily "small government"), strong nationalists and interventionists with an authoritarian streak ("Neo-Cons") and moderate libertarians (economic conservatives, who often are moderate on social questions). You find such different people as Rick Santorum, Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul within the Republican Party.
Of course it's never entirely accurate to make such a transfer, but maybe it's not too far off when I say that due to the political system in Germany, these different ideologies were distributed over different parties: "Christian right" ideas were strongest in the Catholic Centrist party in Weimar Germany, authoritarian militarists/nationalists in the far-right DNVP and moderate libertarians (those who are most "small government") in the center-left DDP.
So the very group on the American right, which is usually identified with "small government", was strongest in a German party left of center. Both left and right were "big government".
But it's worth noting that even in America today, there are "right wing" ideas which are not "small government": Many on the Christian right, for example, favor social programs in favor of supporting poor, or restrictions of civil rights in order to legislate Christian morals -- yet they are called "right wing", because they are socially very conservative. Likewise, there are libertarians with a very "right wing" economic policy of "small government", yet they often share individualist ideas about civil rights with left wing progressives (on homosexuality, abortion, etc).
That's why a one-dimensional scale is really limited. It only reaches so far to explain political ideologies.
That must make you a libertarian, trying to not be associated with the right. :2razz:
Irrelevant my aunt emma. It was created by libertarians for the expressed purpose of charting libertarians to justify the various opinions of libertarians and not place them as rightists on he normal continuum in American political thinking.
That was the entire purpose of it.
Libertarians don't have much in common with conservatives besides economic issues, but we both placed on the Right. I don't have any particular disdain for conservatism. It just does not reflect my views. I don't distort anything in order to distance myself from anybody I disagree with. The one-dimensional spectrum does not capture the subtlety or diversity of different political thought. If pro-market libertarians on the same side of the spectrum as Fascists and Anarcho-Socialists are on the same side as Stalinists, what does the line tell us? The Nolan Chart, which is certainly not the only way of grouping political thought, reflects at least some subtlety.
If libertarians in America got their way, the results would be virtually identical to the wetdreams of the most extreme of right wing conservatives who want to radically weaken government power and programs. Corporations would increase their power greatly and we would soon see a new type of corporate fascism combined with an oligarchy that would destroy this nation. While their methods and means may differ, the same ends would be achieved.
Ok......
That doesn't do anything to prove that they were trying to disassociate themselves from the right.
Your post was nothing but conspiracy theory.
As far as I can tell, tell the NeoCONS are Nazis.
I'm no expert on this area by any means.
But it seems (from what info I've seen on the whole thing) that there were indeed elements in the Nazi party of that which is today called (in the USA, which has its own flavor) "Liberalism" and “Conservatism”.
BOTH "sides" (of the US political fabric), in other words, could theoretically be connected to Nazism.
So, it can by no means be labeled exclusively “conservative” or exclusively “liberal”.
Firstly, because the world just isn’t that clear-cut.
Secondly, because even if you DO outright (and inaccurately) declare one activity/policy or another to be pure “conservatism” or “liberalism”, there would still be some crossover.
That’s how it appears to me.
Not at all. We know for a undeniable fact that a libertarian created it. And who uses it and the bogus worlds smallest political quiz that is so often paired with it? Libertarians. And how do they use it? To convince newbies that they just may have things in common with libertarians and just may start thinking about conversion.
My good friend Turtledude would say its just common sense.
Which traits of the National Socialists would you classify as, "Liberal", and which traits, "Conservative"?
Left-wingers don't talk about the "master race", and persecute other races, religions, ethnicities that they consider to be "inferior".
the Nazis were homophobic, xenophobic, anti-Semitic, & racist.
these are all Conservatives traits.
Nothing but partisan, historical revisionism.
Wasn't it the Democrat Party the wanted to keep Jim Crow laws, that thought Blacks were inherently inferior?
Nothing but partisan, historical revisionism.
Wasn't it the Democrat Party the wanted to keep Jim Crow laws, that thought Blacks were inherently inferior?
If libertarians in America got their way, the results would be virtually identical to the wetdreams of the most extreme of right wing conservatives who want to radically weaken government power and programs. Corporations would increase their power greatly and we would soon see a new type of corporate fascism combined with an oligarchy that would destroy this nation. While their methods and means may differ, the same ends would be achieved.
You are incorrect.the Nazis were homophobic, xenophobic, anti-Semitic, & racist.
these are all Conservatives traits.
And that happened when exactly? and what has the Democratic done since that time?
You are incorrect.