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Should the AZ shooter have been able to buy a gun?

Should the AZ shooter have been able to buy a gun?


  • Total voters
    51
  • Poll closed .
That'd be a good point, if it was relevant.

The relevancy, is that guns don't create crime, nor criminals. A criminal is going to commit crime, whether he has access to a gun, or not.

I'm sorry, but Australia isn't a good example of how gun bans work.
 
Single events in different countries do not compare with the 20 mass shootings per year clocked up in the USA.

20 per year! That's news to the people of this country. You mite want to put up some proof. And the USA Today "opinion piece" is not a good source as they do not state where or how they came up with that ridicules number.
 
Yet, taking my country as an example, since strict gun laws were introduced in 1996, we've only had the one mass shooting at Melbourne Uni, and while there is a rise in gun related crime, we still only have 10% (per capita) of the amount of gun related homicides America does.

You also have a population of about 22.5 million. The US? 300 million. Makes a bit of a difference don't you think?
 
Oh really?

Monash University in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia on October 21, 2002.
November 26–28, 2008 - 2008 Mumbai attacks in India.
September 4, 2004: Beslan school hostage crisis in Russia.
C. W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute shooting Toronto, Ontario, Canada May 23 2007.
Dunblane massacre Dunblane, United Kingdom March 13 1996 18.
Erfurt massacre Erfurt, Germany April 26 2002 17.
Kauhajoki school shooting Kauhajoki, Finland September 23 2008
Azerbaijan State Oil Academy shooting Baku, Azerbaijan April 30, 2009

No it is a problem world wide even in country's with very restrictive gun laws.

I didn't say our mass killings with handguns were more than the rest of the world combined. I said no other country had more than us.

Here is just a partial listing over the last 12 years ~
"-- In April 1999, two teenage schoolboys shot and killed 12 schoolmates and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, before killing themselves.

-- In July 1999, a stock exchange trader in Atlanta, Georgia, killed 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.

-- In September 1999, a gunman opened fire at a prayer service in Fort Worth, Texas, killing six people before committing suicide.

-- In October 2002, a series of sniper-style shootings occurred in Washington DC, leaving 10 dead.

-- In August 2003 in Chicago, a laid-off worker shot and killed six of his former workmates.

-- In November 2004 in Birchwood, Wisconsin, a hunter killed six other hunters and wounded two others after an argument with them.

-- In March 2005, a man opened fire at a church service in Brookfield, Wisconsin, killing seven people.

-- In October 2006, a truck driver killed five schoolgirls and seriously wounded six others in a school in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania before taking his own life.

-- In April 2007, a student shot and killed 32 people and wounded 15 others at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, before shooting himself, making it the deadliest mass shooting in the United States after 2000.

-- In December 2007, a 20-year-old man killed nine people and injured five others in a shopping center in Omaha, Nebraska.

-- In December 2007, a woman and her boyfriend shot dead six members of her family on Christmas Eve in Carnation, Washington.

-- In February 2008, a shooter who is still at large tied up and shot six women at a suburban clothing store in Chicago, leaving five of them dead and the remaining one injured.

-- In February 2008, a man opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois, killing five students and wounding 16 others before laying down his weapon and surrendering.

-- In September 2008, a mentally ill man who was released from jail one month earlier shot eight people in Alger, Washington, leaving six of them dead and the rest two wounded.

-- In December 2008, a man dressed in a Santa Claus suit opened fire at a family Christmas party in Covina, California, then set fire on the house and killed himself. Police later found nine people dead in the debris of the house.

-- In March 2009, a 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.

-- In March 2009, a heavily-armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.

-- In March 2009, six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.

-- In April 2009, a man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.

-- In November 2009, U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.

-- In January 2011, a gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tuscon, Arizona, killing six people including a nine-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head."
Backgrounder: Main mass shootings in U.S. since 1999
 
I didn't say our mass killings with handguns were more than the rest of the world combined. I said no other country had more than us.

I never said anything about "combined?" Niether did you.

Actually you said...

No other country has such a problem - Catawba

You were wrong then as I have shown, and you still are.

PS You also said nothing about hand guns.
 
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As I see it (although I have yet to put this into practice), until some kind of personal defensive shielding is invented that stops all attacks against a person or structure, the best way to counter criminal acts and violence directed against yourself or your home/belongings is an active one.

That is, be prepared to respond to any incoming assault with a counter-assault.

Outside of crazies like, perhaps, this most recent dude, most criminals will avoid people who are prepared to defend themselves, thus (as I understand it) reducing violent, armed, criminal acts in the area.
 
I never said anything about "combined?" Niether did you.

Actually you said...

No other country has such a problem - Catawba

You were wrong then as I have shown, and you still are.

PS You also said nothing about hand guns.

Read my post again.

I said, "no other country" (singular). Your list was worldwide, mine was just of the US. My claim stands until disproven.
 
Mandatory training in proper firearm care/handling for all citizens without preventative disabilities and/or religious/philosophical oppositions to the use of firearms.

You mean for all those wishing to purchase guns? Not a bad idea. That along with reestablishing the ban on high capacity magazines would help.
 
I didn't say our mass killings with handguns were more than the rest of the world combined. I said no other country had more than us.

Here is just a partial listing over the last 12 years ~
"-- In April 1999, two teenage schoolboys shot and killed 12 schoolmates and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, before killing themselves.

-- In July 1999, a stock exchange trader in Atlanta, Georgia, killed 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.

-- In September 1999, a gunman opened fire at a prayer service in Fort Worth, Texas, killing six people before committing suicide.

-- In October 2002, a series of sniper-style shootings occurred in Washington DC, leaving 10 dead.

-- In August 2003 in Chicago, a laid-off worker shot and killed six of his former workmates.


-- In November 2004 in Birchwood, Wisconsin, a hunter killed six other hunters and wounded two others after an argument with them.

-- In March 2005, a man opened fire at a church service in Brookfield, Wisconsin, killing seven people.

-- In October 2006, a truck driver killed five schoolgirls and seriously wounded six others in a school in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania before taking his own life.

-- In April 2007, a student shot and killed 32 people and wounded 15 others at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, before shooting himself, making it the deadliest mass shooting in the United States after 2000.

-- In December 2007, a 20-year-old man killed nine people and injured five others in a shopping center in Omaha, Nebraska.

-- In December 2007, a woman and her boyfriend shot dead six members of her family on Christmas Eve in Carnation, Washington.

-- In February 2008, a shooter who is still at large tied up and shot six women at a suburban clothing store in Chicago, leaving five of them dead and the remaining one injured.

-- In February 2008, a man opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois, killing five students and wounding 16 others before laying down his weapon and surrendering.

-- In September 2008, a mentally ill man who was released from jail one month earlier shot eight people in Alger, Washington, leaving six of them dead and the rest two wounded.

-- In December 2008, a man dressed in a Santa Claus suit opened fire at a family Christmas party in Covina, California, then set fire on the house and killed himself. Police later found nine people dead in the debris of the house.

-- In March 2009, a 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.

-- In March 2009, a heavily-armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.

-- In March 2009, six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.

-- In April 2009, a man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.

-- In November 2009, U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.

-- In January 2011, a gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tuscon, Arizona, killing six people including a nine-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head."
Backgrounder: Main mass shootings in U.S. since 1999

Weren't high capacity magazines banned during that period?
 
Read my post again.

I said, "no other country" (singular). Your list was worldwide, mine was just of the US. My claim stands until disproven.

I don't really have to. You are the one who has no clue what your own post said. Then you come up with this post that has nothing to do with it.

You said "NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS SUCH A PROBLEM" I showed that other country's do. End of story.
 
I'm not asking them whether he should have been able to purchase the gun, I'm asking you, all of you. Was this the kind of customer that should be given that privilege? Don't go hiding behind the 2nd Amendment, either; this isn't about your legal opinion, this is about your judgment. Should this man have been able to buy a Glock 19 pistol in your judgment?

1) it's not a privilege it's a right.

You seem to miss that whole point. Everyone is allowed, according to the Constitution, to purchase a weapon unless it's proven via defined statutes that they can't.
The statutes don't include getting kicked out of school or not being what the military wants.
Even IF it did it would require an enormous big brother effort to compile everyone's life down to the minute detail that he was expelled from school.
Not to mention it's illegal to disclose his military record.
 
The Second Amendment originally referred to prohibitions by the federal government. If things worked according to the traditional view, the federal government couldn't regulate the gun trade, but Arizona could do whatever it wanted.
 
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I don't really have to. You are the one who has no clue what your own post said. Then you come up with this post that has nothing to do with it.

You said "NO OTHER COUNTRY HAS SUCH A PROBLEM" I showed that other country's do. End of story.

That is a dishonest assessment of what I said. You left out the preceding sentence which provides the context for the part you quoted.

Here is my complete quote ~ "Only if we wish to address the problem of mass killings by citizens with guns in this country. No other country has such a problem. Are we incapable of solving, or at least reducing it? "

I was clearly talking about mass killings by citizens with guns. I further state that no other country (singular) has such a problem. If you have evidence to present that shows another country has more mass killings by citizens with guns then the US, please present it.
 
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Weren't high capacity magazines banned during that period?

High capacity magazines were banned in the US from 1994 to 2004.
 
A person who displays paranoia, psychotic tendies, and in this case was rejected from the military on mental fitness, kicked out of school for being a threatening nut.... To me that should be the kinds of things that are reported on a background check.

This is more of an example of the failure of the mental health system... mostly because of program cuts and insurance company refusal to authorize appropriate treatment than a gun issue.
 
Do we know at this point that he obtained it legally? He had had run ins with the Sheriff in the past. If he did obtain it legally then yes. And so should have at least half of the rest of the rational, non-druggie, sane crowd that was there that day so that someone could have dropped him after the first shot.
 
Do we know at this point that he obtained it legally? He had had run ins with the Sheriff in the past. If he did obtain it legally then yes. And so should have at least half of the rest of the rational, non-druggie, sane crowd that was there that day so that someone could have dropped him after the first shot.

Opening fire in a crowded supermarket car park is the rational non-druggie sane option? The people who took him down didn't need a gun to do it.
 
Opening fire in a crowded supermarket car park is the rational non-druggie sane option? The people who took him down didn't need a gun to do it.

He killed six people before they stopped him.
 
High capacity magazines were banned in the US from 1994 to 2004.




There is no such thing as "high capacity magazines" it's a myth created by the gun lobby.... "full capacity" or "standard capacity" is more accurate.
 
That is a dishonest assessment of what I said. You left out the preceding sentence which provides the context for the part you quoted.

Here is my complete quote ~ "Only if we wish to address the problem of mass killings by citizens with guns in this country. No other country has such a problem. Are we incapable of solving, or at least reducing it? "

I was clearly talking about mass killings by citizens with guns. I further state that no other country (singular) has such a problem. If you have evidence to present that shows another country has more mass killings by citizens with guns then the US, please present it.

Your comprehension is just so out there. No clue.

OK, you have a good one.
 
Ahhhh, I see. And, there were still mass shootings that took place.

I never said there were none when the high capacity magazines were banned. Have you seen the statements by the police that less people would have been shot before he was disarmed had the shooter been using a standard size magazine?
 
Yeah, they just had to wait for his gun to jam or to run out of bullets in a clip.

Unfortunately they had to wait until he had fired off thirty plus one-in-the-gun rounds because of the high capacity magazine he used. Why does America allow such things?
 
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