• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Which Tea Partier said this?

Which Tea Partier said this?

  • Michelle Bachmann

    Votes: 2 13.3%

  • Sarah Palin

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Rush Limbaugh

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Shakira Shakira

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • I think I know where this is going

    Votes: 8 53.3%
  • Total voters
    15
RightinNYC

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
President Obama’s economic advisor Austin Goolsbee argued Sunday that a refusal by the Senate to increase the government’s debt ceiling (currently $14.3 trillion) would be “catastrophic” and a sign of “insanity."

So guess which Tea Partier said this:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Click to expand...
 
Consider the time frame when Barack Obama spoke these words: 2006. Whatever happened to the surpluses President Bill Clinton handed to President George Bush? And consider, what has intervened in the meantime since 2006? The worst economic crash since the Great Depression. In a period of collapsing consumer demand, the only entity with sufficient credit that can measurably re-ignite the economy is the federal government. Keynesian economics says government spending is critical at this time. By some estimates the 2009 Stimulus bill has shaved three percentage points from the unemployment rate.

Barack Obama is a moderate, even, fiscal conservative. This quote demonstrates that even if I fully expected him to vote to increase the limit back in 2006 if his vote had been necessary. It wasn't and he skated.

I predict that we hear a stringent fiscal discipline message in this year's State of the Union speech. Expect a call for far reaching tax reform.
 
Chappy said:
Consider the time frame when Barack Obama spoke these words: 2006.
Click to expand...

Yes, let's do that.

March 2006: The national debt is $8.2T. Obama thinks that raising the debt level is a sign of leadership failure.

January 2011: The national debt is $14T. Obama thinks that raising the debt level is a great idea.

Yea, makes sense.

Whatever happened to the surpluses President Bill Clinton handed to President George Bush?
Click to expand...

Illusory surpluses created by bubbles, but that's neither here nor there, of course.

And consider, what has intervened in the meantime since 2006? The worst economic crash since the Great Depression. In a period of collapsing consumer demand, the only entity with sufficient credit that can measurably re-ignite the economy is the federal government. Keynesian economics says government spending is critical at this time.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is that the things Obama said in 06 are no longer true? Americans no longer deserve better?

By some estimates the 2009 Stimulus bill has shaved three percentage points from the unemployment rate.
Click to expand...

By some estimates, the health care bill will raise the deficit. :lol:

Barack Obama is a moderate, even, fiscal conservative. This quote demonstrates that even if I fully expected him to vote to increase the limit back in 2006 if his vote had been necessary.
Click to expand...

Not really the point, since Goolsbee was criticizing politicians who would even dare to posture about not raising the debt limit. This is what you're ignoring:

Goolsbee: ""It pains me that we would even be talking about this," Goolsbee told ABC's "This Week." This is not a game. You know, the debt ceiling is not something to toy with. … If we hit the debt ceiling, that's essentially defaulting on our obligations, which is totally unprecedented in American history. The impact on the economy would be catastrophic. I mean, that would be a worse financial economic crisis than anything we saw in 2008." ... "We shouldn't even be discussing that. People will get the wrong idea."

The fact that the economy might have been in better shape in 2006 does not mean that these things were not just as true then as they are now.
 
Last edited:
Conceded: If Barack Obama had prevented the debt ceiling from being raised in 2006 as the Republicans are threatening to do in 2011, he would have been as irresponsible as they are being today. Reality is that his vote wasn't needed and the debt ceiling was raised back then. Now Speaker Boehner needs to corral enough House Republicans to assure the same is true this year or the GOP will have failed in their governance responsibility. It really is that simple.
 
Chappy said:
Conceded: If Barack Obama had prevented the debt ceiling from being raised in 2006 as the Republicans are threatening to do in 2011, he would have been as irresponsible as they are being today. Reality is that his vote wasn't needed and the debt ceiling was raised back then. Now Speaker Boehner needs to corral enough House Republicans to assure the same is true this year or the GOP will have failed in their governance responsibility. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...

And if Goolsbee were criticizing the Republicans for actually preventing the debt limit from being raised, you might have a point. Of course, that's not what he's doing - he's criticizing the Republicans for even saying that they would oppose raising the debt limit. Goolsbee is noting (quite rightly) that this type of posturing is pure politics that has little relation to good governance. I'm noting that Goolsbee's boss once did the exact same thing.
 
RightinNYC said:
… Goolsbee is noting (quite rightly) that this type of posturing is pure politics that has little relation to good governance. I'm noting that Goolsbee's boss once did the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

Obama was acting politically and the debt ceiling was raised. Such is the nature of must-pass legislation.

As long as Republicans are merely acting politically and the debt ceiling is raised, then all's fair. But, if this turns into extortion or worse, my sense is the Republicans have acted insanely and harmed this nation beyond measure.
 
Chappy said:
Obama was acting politically and the debt ceiling was raised. Such is the nature of must-pass legislation.

As long as Republicans are merely acting politically and the debt ceiling is raised, then all's fair.
Click to expand...

Which of these two sounds like the guy who understands the "must-pass" nature of this legislation and is offering a nuanced take on the issue?

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Click to expand...

vs.

I’ve been notified that the Obama Administration intends to formally request an increase in the debt limit. The American people will not stand for such an increase unless it is accompanied by meaningful action by the President and Congress to cut spending and end the job-killing spending binge in Washington. While America cannot default on its debt, we also cannot continue to borrow recklessly, dig ourselves deeper into this hole, and mortgage the future of our children and grandchildren. Spending cuts – and reforming a broken budget process – are top priorities for the American people and for the new majority in the House this year, and it is essential that the President and Democrats in Congress work with us in that effort.
Click to expand...

...

But, if this turns into extortion or worse, my sense is the Republicans have acted insanely and harmed this nation beyond measure.
Click to expand...

And that's different from your normal view on Republicans...how?
 
Fix the budget process. Fine. Cut spending. Great. These are reasonable political actions. Obama has already started by freezing federal discretionary spending. But the one thing Congressional Republican should not do is hold the nation's good faith and credit hostage in an attempt to extort the president to accede to budget concessions. The debt ceiling reflects obligations already undertaken; it is about past decisions, not future ones.
 
Chappy said:
Fix the budget process. Fine. Cut spending. Great. These are reasonable political actions. Obama has already started by freezing federal discretionary spending. But the one thing Congressional Republican should not do is hold the nation's good faith and credit hostage in an attempt to extort the president to accede to budget concessions.
Click to expand...

Please explain how Boehner's statement threatens to "hold the nation's good faith and credit hostage" more than Obama's did. Based on my reading, it's pretty obvious that Boehner makes it explicitly clear that the debt limit will be raised. You know, because he says so.
 
And, we're counting on Mr. Boehner to deliver those Republican votes. Personally I think he understands that this is necessary. I think Barack Obama back in 2006 got it, too; but, of course, he was already preparing to run for President — is there any doubt that if his vote were the deciding factor he would have voted Aye? None; we all know he would have acted responsibly. I'm not so sure about significant portions of the 112th Congress' Republican caucus.
 
Consider: Up through the campaign, words can somewhat come and go without too much hassel. It is a gamble, but two years is a great deal of leniency to give a future candidate.

Then again, your response was appropriately delivered towards true believers, who deserve to be knocked down a peg or two.
 
Chappy said:
And, we're counting on Mr. Boehner to deliver those Republican votes. Personally I think he understands that this is necessary. I think Barack Obama back in 2006 got it, too; but, of course, he was already preparing to run for President — is there any doubt that if his vote were the deciding factor he would have voted Aye? None; we all know he would have acted responsibly. I'm not so sure about significant portions of the 112th Congress' Republican caucus.
Click to expand...

Somehow this response seems somewhat lacking in perceptiveness.
 
Chappy said:
Consider the time frame when Barack Obama spoke these words: 2006. Whatever happened to the surpluses President Bill Clinton handed to President George Bush? And consider, what has intervened in the meantime since 2006? The worst economic crash since the Great Depression. In a period of collapsing consumer demand, the only entity with sufficient credit that can measurably re-ignite the economy is the federal government. Keynesian economics says government spending is critical at this time. By some estimates the 2009 Stimulus bill has shaved three percentage points from the unemployment rate.

Barack Obama is a moderate, even, fiscal conservative. This quote demonstrates that even if I fully expected him to vote to increase the limit back in 2006 if his vote had been necessary. It wasn't and he skated.

I predict that we hear a stringent fiscal discipline message in this year's State of the Union speech. Expect a call for far reaching tax reform.
Click to expand...

There never were any real surpluses, they were projections. It's bull**** and disingenuous to keep bringing them up. THEY NEVER EXISTED.
 
Chappy said:
Fix the budget process. Fine. Cut spending. Great. These are reasonable political actions. Obama has already started by freezing federal discretionary spending. But the one thing Congressional Republican should not do is hold the nation's good faith and credit hostage in an attempt to extort the president to accede to budget concessions. The debt ceiling reflects obligations already undertaken; it is about past decisions, not future ones.
Click to expand...

Putting a "freeze" on something means it can't be raised, but it also means it can't be cut.
 
American said:
There never were any real surpluses, they were projections. It's bull**** and disingenuous to keep bringing them up. THEY NEVER EXISTED.
Click to expand...

It's a bit soon to be rewriting history within living memory.
 
I'm glad to see the Tea Partiers are still on their balance the budget kick. We'll see what happens when the Republicans inevitably betray the Tea Party and return to their free spending ways. My guess is that somehow the Tea Party isn't going to care anymore.

Manc Skipper said:
It's a bit soon to be rewriting history within living memory.
Click to expand...

Indeed.
 
Chappy said:
Obama was acting politically .......
Click to expand...

Ohhhh..which is always the excuse by politicians to escape doing what is right. I don't have any faith in any of them.
 
Chappy said:
Obama was acting politically and the debt ceiling was raised. Such is the nature of must-pass legislation.

As long as Republicans are merely acting politically and the debt ceiling is raised, then all's fair. But, if this turns into extortion or worse, my sense is the Republicans have acted insanely and harmed this nation beyond measure.
Click to expand...

harmed the nation beyond measure? beyond the ability to measure?


how, exactly, is not going further into debt going to harm us that much.
 
Chappy said:
Conceded: If Barack Obama had prevented the debt ceiling from being raised in 2006 as the Republicans are threatening to do in 2011, he would have been as irresponsible as they are being today. Reality is that his vote wasn't needed and the debt ceiling was raised back then. Now Speaker Boehner needs to corral enough House Republicans to assure the same is true this year or the GOP will have failed in their governance responsibility. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...

Yes. This vote is a great opportunity for political grandstanding, but they all realize it must be passed. The Repubs will allow as many members as possible make their stand and shallow speaches, but in the end it passes. This is not a serious issue, just a show.
 
cpwill said:
harmed the nation beyond measure? beyond the ability to measure?


how, exactly, is not going further into debt going to harm us that much.
Click to expand...

Not extending the debt limit means that the debt does not get serviced....i.e. The US Government defaults on what is generally considered the securest debt instruments in the world, and the unreproached "good faith and credit of the United States Government" is compromised. The consequential interest rate adjustment would likely cost us far more than the addtional debt. Not a good thing.
 
upsideguy said:
Not extending the debt limit means that the debt does not get serviced....i.e. The US Government defaults on what is generally considered the securest debt instruments in the world, and the unreproached "good faith and credit of the United States Government" is compromised. The consequential interest rate adjustment would likely cost us far more than the addtional debt. Not a good thing.
Click to expand...

actually that would be an excellent thing. one of the key's to recovering from alcoholism is to remove all the alcohol from the house.
 
Manc Skipper said:
It's a bit soon to be rewriting history within living memory.
Click to expand...

no, he's right. the Clinton Administration basically double-counted Social Security revenues (first when it came in to fund Social Security, and then when they were put into T-Bills as "revenue") in order to get it over the line, and then declared that they had a "surplus". the National Debt increased every year. mind you, Bush ran on a policy of using those surpluses to fund tax cuts, so it's not like both parties didn't play along; but they never actually existed outside of the political discourse (imaginationland).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom