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Same sex marriage: what is it really?

What is same sex marriage?


  • Total voters
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Jerry... how long have you and I discussed this issue? 4+ years? You KNOW that equality is not the only way that SSM is argued. You know that as well as I.

Of course equality is not the ONLY way gays lie about their cause. I understand this.
 
FACTS are though :)

It is unfortunate they were not.

not only is it true, its a FACT, you are against gay marriage therefore you are against equal rights for gays. You want to discriminate against them. Therefore you are not for gay rights and no matter how bad you want to spin things to make yourself feel better about discriminating against them fellow americans the facts wont change. LMAO again just more blind blatant dishonesty from you.

None of this is true. Has nothing to do with Spin either.

If you have not figured out my view by now, you never will.

didnt miss anything ,I focused on the where you told her IT DOESNT MATTER lol the nerve of you, you are not gay its not your decision PERIOD lol to think otherwise makes you look VERY foolish

I said...

"As for the rest you can think what you like, it does not change the reality that it has nothing at all to do with family." - Blackdog

The nerve? So I can not voice my opinion because I am not gay? So I cannot tell it the way I see it because I am not gay?

OK.

I agree PART and that one movement is made up of ALL the parts so what she says goes and is fact and what you say is MEANINGLESS, you act like she is the ONLY one that feels they way she does, like she is an anomaly.

Not at all. I am going by what I have seen and heard in the last 20+ years. So no, I do not accept her opinion as that is all it is. Just like my opinion.

Your argument is nonsensical in that you act like I am wrong based on nothing but an opinion. Like because someone is gay, they speak for all gays. Sorry, that will not float.

What a joke LMAO again it was just you saying something totally ridiculous and making a totally inaccurate blanket statement. How arrogant and misguided could you possibly be, you now make decisions for her and a movement you have nothing to do with LOL.

Again calling names means little.

I made a blanket statement in that I think the movement has nothing to do with family. It is figurative and absolutely dead on.

Says the guy who says HE knows what all gays think and feel and what thier movement is about LMAO Nice try this is purely you projecting because its exactly what you did, assumptions and blanket statements, only problem is GAYs agree with ME and not with you LOL

Are you gay? No? Then your opinion according to your own words mean nothing.

Also that is not true. I never said anything about "Says the guy who says HE knows what all gays think and feel."

Never said anything even close. I said the movement. This does not mean that they all are the same or think the same. I guess all liberals who wanted government health care all march in lock step? Not hardly. Of course exaggerating my statements is par for the course I guess.

HAHAHAHAHAHA You sound like the racists that say, "I have a black friend" you most certainly did and tried to and are 100% wrong. You made a blanket statement and then tried to say oh I just meant the movement which STILL doesnt apply

And this is some kind of argument? This had nothing to do with my statement or it's point. I have no idea what this statement had to do with you accusing me of "back peddling" or how my example was racist. So I can't mention I know and have known gay people, white people etc without being racist? Or in this case gay bashing? Don't be ridicules.

you were wrong last post and you are wrong again because thats not what I did at all LMAO you Assumed.

and yes the fact is her opinion IS more important to the movement because she is gay genius LMAO YOURS is MEANINGLESS.

Which means again according to your own words anyone including yourself who is not gay thoughts on this are meaningless? Great way to drum up support.

You are not gay and against gay rights, she is gay and for them so YOU don't get to tell HER what she is fighting for nor people like her, something like that is NEVER your call and NEVER will be. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow just wow :roll:

:lamo

OK :confused:
 
It is unfortunate they were not.



None of this is true. Has nothing to do with Spin either.

If you have not figured out my view by now, you never will.



I said...

"As for the rest you can think what you like, it does not change the reality that it has nothing at all to do with family." - Blackdog

The nerve? So I can not voice my opinion because I am not gay? So I cannot tell it the way I see it because I am not gay?

OK.



Not at all. I am going by what I have seen and heard in the last 20+ years. So no, I do not accept her opinion as that is all it is. Just like my opinion.

Your argument is nonsensical in that you act like I am wrong based on nothing but an opinion. Like because someone is gay, they speak for all gays. Sorry, that will not float.



Again calling names means little.

I made a blanket statement in that I think the movement has nothing to do with family. It is figurative and absolutely dead on.



Are you gay? No? Then your opinion according to your own words mean nothing.

Also that is not true. I never said anything about "Says the guy who says HE knows what all gays think and feel."

Never said anything even close. I said the movement. This does not mean that they all are the same or think the same. I guess all liberals who wanted government health care all march in lock step? Not hardly. Of course exaggerating my statements is par for the course I guess.



And this is some kind of argument? This had nothing to do with my statement or it's point. I have no idea what this statement had to do with you accusing me of "back peddling" or how my example was racist. So I can't mention I know and have known gay people, white people etc without being racist? Or in this case gay bashing? Don't be ridicules.



Which means again according to your own words anyone including yourself who is not gay thoughts on this are meaningless? Great way to drum up support.



OK :confused:

Im not going to play your circle games, deflect all you wan I can sum this up easy.

Facts
1 you are NOT for gay rights
2 you do not speak for "the movment" and were wrong to say/think you do.

Those are the two facts of this discussion.
 
Im not going to play your circle games, deflect all you wan I can sum this up easy.

Facts
1 you are NOT for gay rights
2 you do not speak for "the movment" and were wrong to say/think you do.

Those are the two facts of this discussion.

Then you have no clue about the discussion.

#1 I am absolutely for gay rights. Gays have all the rights anyone else does. We don't need to redefine marriage to give them the rights of marriage. The same goes for polygamy and incest. I guess I am against the rights of incestuous couples as well?

#2 Please point out where I said I speak for any movement, let alone any gay movement.

You have no facts.
 
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Then you have no clue about the discussion.

#1 I am absolutely for gay rights. Gays have all the rights anyone else does. We don't need to redefine marriage to give them the rights of marriage. The same goes for polygamy and incest. I guess I am against the rights of incestuous couples as well?

You dont support gay marriage, therefor you are not for gay rights. You can use all the quarters you have for your spin cycle defense but at the end of the day, you dont want them treated equal, you want to discriminate against them.
 
You dont support gay marriage, therefor you are not for gay rights. You can use all the quarters you have for your spin cycle defense but at the end of the day, you dont want them treated equal, you want to discriminate against them.

OK thanks for not answering my questions or refuting my second statement. :mrgreen:
 
Moderator's Warning:
Final warning to be civil or else.
 
OK thanks for not answering my questions or refuting my second statement. :mrgreen:

Not my fault you went back and edited.
Thanks for not replying with endless spin about how you are for gay rights when in fact you are not :D

on to your second point
"#2 Please point out where I said I speak for any movement, let alone any gay movement.
You have no facts."


A person who is gay and in the movement, has other friends just like her and feel just like she does, who are also gay made a statement about ONE of the things the movement is about. You told her to think whatever she wants but she is "WRONG" and proceed to say what YOU THINK the movement is about and thats all it is about, even told her its a crock and said YOUR assessment is spot on or something to that effect, LMAO even though its not your movement and one you disagree with.

That is YOU speaking for the gay movement and those are the facts . :2wave:
 
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Not my fault you went back and edited.
Thanks for not replying with endless spin about how you are for gay rights when in fact you are not :D

So again I ask...

If I do not support marriage for incestuous couples or polygamists. Am I un-American and discriminating against them because they are just people who love each other?

on to your second point
"#2 Please point out where I said I speak for any movement, let alone any gay movement.
You have no facts."


A person who is gay and in the movement, has other friends just like her and feel just like she does, who are also gay made a statement about ONE of the things the movement is about.

I also have friends in the movement who don't agree with me, and some who do. They are gay and say different. So I guess her friends are more right than mine because???? Oh she is gay. Correct?

You told her to think whatever she wants but she is "WRONG" and proceed to say what YOU THINK the movement is about and thats all it is about, even told her its a crock and said YOUR assessment is spot on or something to that effect, LMAO even though its not your movement and one you disagree with.

I told her "As for the rest you can think what you like, it does not change the reality that it has nothing at all to do with family."

Hmmm nothing about calling anything a "crock" and yes my assessment is spot on.

You don't have to be a member to see what is going on. I guess I have to be a member of the KKK to know they are racist?

She even admitted I was correct...
More like since technological advances of recent years LGBT people having families have increased, and thus that argument has more weight than it has in the past. - Your Star

If you take into account her young age and me being much older it makes perfect sense.

That is YOU speaking for the gay movement and those are the facts . 2wave:

As I have shown, it is me stating my own experience. Sorry you got it wrong.
 
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So again I ask...

I do not support marriage for incestuous couples or polygamists. Am I un-American and discriminating against them because they are just people who love each other?

I do not support marriage for space aliens I guess I discriminate against them too, so we are even, see how meaningless that is. Told you im not playing your circle game. Ask it again, ask it five times we are talking about gay rights, You are not for gay rights period.



I also have friends in the movement who don't agree with me and some who do. They are gay and say different. So I guess her friends are more right than mine because???? Oh she is gay. Correct?

LMAO who said this? oh thats right NOBODY, Who brought up your friends? thats right NOBODY

I didnt say people cant disagree with her but YOU cant tell her she is WRONG and her views are a CROCK and only YOU are right and yours are DEAD ON which is what you did. again nice try but you fail



I told her "As for the rest you can think what you like, it does not change the reality that it has nothing at all to do with family."

Hmmm nothing about calling anything a "crock" and yes my assessment is spot on.

You told her its a crock in posts before that but it was the same subject, thats a FACT. And you assessment is still wrong has family in fact IS part of the movement.

You don't have to be a member to see what is going on. I guess I have to be a member of the KKK to know they are racist?

this is relevant how? oh thats right its not LMAO its not even close to a similar parallel, holy cow, more circle games from you.



She even admitted I was correct...
More like since technological advances of recent years LGBT people having families have increased, and thus that argument has more weight than it has in the past. - Your Star

she didnt admit YOU were right LMAO all she said is that the part of the movement that you said was WRONG, was a CROCK and its rock solid that its not what the movement is about may have GROWN :lamo thats a HUGE difference

As I have shown, it is me stating my own experience. Sorry you got it wrong.
I got nothing wrong you did, you just didnt say it was your experience you told her she was wrong and you were right your "experience" doesnt get to do that since shes IN the movement and you are against it and cant speak for it LMAO.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Centrist77 is now banned from this thread.
 
I do not support marriage for space aliens I guess I discriminate against them too, so we are even, see how meaningless that is. Told you im not playing your circle game. Ask it again, ask it five times we are talking about gay rights, You are not for gay rights period.





LMAO who said this? oh thats right NOBODY, Who brought up your friends? thats right NOBODY

I didnt say people cant disagree with her but YOU cant tell her she is WRONG and her views are a CROCK and only YOU are right and yours are DEAD ON which is what you did. again nice try but you fail





You told her its a crock in posts before that but it was the same subject, thats a FACT. And you assessment is still wrong has family in fact IS part of the movement.



this is relevant how? oh thats right its not LMAO its not even close to a similar parallel, holy cow, more circle games from you.





she didnt admit YOU were right LMAO all she said is that the part of the movement that you said was WRONG, was a CROCK and its rock solid that its not what the movement is about may have GROWN :lamo thats a HUGE difference


I got nothing wrong you did, you just didnt say it was your experience you told her she was wrong and you were right your "experience" doesnt get to do that since shes IN the movement and you are against it and cant speak for it LMAO.
Perhaps I missed something, but why the hell can't Blackdog say they are wrong and he is right?

He may be incorrect in this statement, but I can't see anything preventing him from stating his opinion on the matter...

What did I miss?
 
Perhaps I missed something, but why the hell can't Blackdog say they are wrong and he is right?

He may be incorrect in this statement, but I can't see anything preventing him from stating his opinion on the matter...

What did I miss?

Nothing really. It seems people cannot talk about the gay movement unless they are gay, and can see the agenda of any movement but the gay marriage movement.

What is incorrect about my statement?
 
Nothing really. It seems people cannot talk about the gay movement unless they are gay, and can see the agenda of any movement but the gay marriage movement.

What is incorrect about my statement?
Not sure.

I didn't read back more than a page or two, so I was covering all the bases as I didn't know the original argument.

It seemed inaccurate to say you can't speak for them, though.

Can't speak with authority from them, obviously, but that's not the same thing
 
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Not sure.

I didn't read back more than a page or two, so I was covering all the bases as I didn't know the original arguement.

It seemed inaccurate to say you can't speak for them, though.

Can't speak with authority from them, obviously, but that's not the same thing

Ahhhh I don't know. I did not speak for any movement, just offered my opinion.

No biggie.
 
But it wouldn't be legal in those states according to you. They would just recogniz marriages performed in other states.

Gawd I love the hole you dug yourself.
That argument has merit when every state has to recognize a concealed carry license from every other state.

So, it sounds like we need to address states recognizing perfectly legal licenses from other states. What kind of license is largely peripheral.
 
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Of course equality is not the ONLY way gays lie about their cause. I understand this.

And of course this demonstrates that you DON'T underststand the issue. Or that you're just making stuff up. Or both.
 
And of course this demonstrates that you DON'T underststand the issue. Or that you're just making stuff up. Or both.

I've read it from your own posts, even. That the family argument was merely the best way to win gay marriage because it worked while the equality argument doesn't. It's whatever it takes to win gay marriage, honest representation be damned. Gays will take whatever argument they think will win, which is the only reason why they use the equality argument and try to channel it through Loving.
 
Gays will take whatever argument they think will win, which is the only reason why they use the equality argument and try to channel it through Loving.

Yeah, jeez, anyone would think that they wanted to get married.
 
I've read it from your own posts, even. That the family argument was merely the best way to win gay marriage because it worked while the equality argument doesn't. It's whatever it takes to win gay marriage, honest representation be damned. Gays will take whatever argument they think will win, which is the only reason why they use the equality argument and try to channel it through Loving.

No, Jerry, that is complete mischaracterization. The family argument is the best way to win the gay marriage debate because it is logical and is not strictly relevant to gay marriage. It is relevant to ALL marriage. I would argue it whether GM was legal or not. I would also argue it, and HAVE argued it as the main reason why MARRIAGE should remain a legal institution in the US. Go read a few of my debates with Panache, our resident "there should be no government sanctioned marriage" poster for reference. The family argument is not as you are characterizing it. You make it sound like it is a lie to win the GM debate. Which it absolutely is not.
 
I've read it from your own posts, even. That the family argument was merely the best way to win gay marriage because it worked while the equality argument doesn't. It's whatever it takes to win gay marriage, honest representation be damned. Gays will take whatever argument they think will win, which is the only reason why they use the equality argument and try to channel it through Loving.

Uh...duh?

You act like this is some sort of diabolical act. You do realize that the anti same sex marriage side is using whatever it takes to defeat marriage equality? Have you seen those NOM ads where they argue that marriage equality is an attack on religious liberty or that it will destroy the fabric of society?

The fact is that every individual who supports marriage equality has their own reasons. There is no "the gays". Some gays want same sex marriage because of equality. Some gays want it because they have families or they plan to start families. Some gays want it just for the benefits. Some gays don't even want it and think it is a terrible idea. There is no evil collaboration of "the gays" with a single agenda in mind. That is the fantasy of Dobson and other right wing nuts.
 
All kinds of people want to get married. So what?

Like who? Which types of people wish to enter into a marriage contract, who can't besides same sex couples?

Incestuous couples? Haven't seen a huge movement for this? When they come along, we can deal with it. And there are valid arguments for limiting these types of relationships, which would be very similar to laws/rules limiting relationships between teachers and students.

Pedophiles? Wait, they really wouldn't since most pedophiles aren't attracted to a type of person but rather an age of a person, so they really wouldn't be making permanent commitments. Not that the objects of their affections could legally enter into any contract with them anyway.

Those in love with animals/an animal? Except again, the object of their affections cannot enter into any legal contract with them. Plus, sex with animals is animal cruelty. There is no way to know whether or not the animal would actually consent to the sex or the relationship even. I'm pretty sure that a person has to be of sound mind to enter into a legal marriage with someone.

Polyamorous people? Now this one you could say does, except the current marriage license, including its rights/responsibilities, could not legally cover these relationships. Who has legal say for each of the other participants in the marriage? And how exactly would the rules work for allowing more people into the contract?

None of the things I mentioned apply to changing one thing about marriage licenses/laws that would allow men to marry men and women to marry women, the law concerning the gender of those involved in the contract. There are no questions about who would have legal responsibility concerning the other person involved in the marriage. There is not conflict about the people not legally being able to consent to join in the contract together. And there is no question that the contract is actually needed to actually make the two people legal family, since they wouldn't be legal family without the contract. And their relationship is legal. Homosexual relationships are considered normal, healthy relationships by all major medical associations, unlike incestuous relationships that don't already have legal rights to marry (I think cousins should be allowed to marry everywhere, btw, since they can marry in a number of states already and these are federally recognized marriages).
 
I've read it from your own posts, even. That the family argument was merely the best way to win gay marriage because it worked while the equality argument doesn't. It's whatever it takes to win gay marriage, honest representation be damned. Gays will take whatever argument they think will win, which is the only reason why they use the equality argument and try to channel it through Loving.

You miss the point of course. You seem to think there is only one reason why people support SSM, when in fact there are several. For the family is one, to promote monogamy is one, fairness is one, and there are others. The strongest argument is the family argument, but it is not the only argument. Having multiple reasons for supporting something does not mean that those other reasons are lies.
 
Like who? Which types of people wish to enter into a marriage contract, who can't besides same sex couples?

Poligamists. What you have something against Muslims? Discrimination.
 
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