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Same sex marriage: what is it really?

What is same sex marriage?

  • Total voters
    62
CriticalThought said:
Actually some states recognize same sex marriage performed in other states or countries. For example, New York and New Mexico, even though same sex marriages cannot be performed in those states. So if you want to be technical, same sex marriage is legal in 9 states. I can get married to someone of the same sex in Iowa, where same sex marriages are performed and it will be recognized as marriage in Nee York.
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Getting married is not the same them technically or otherwise. It in no way corrects your statement either.
 
Blackdog said:
Getting married is not the same them technically or otherwise. It in no way corrects your statement either.
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You made a false statement. Same sex marriage is legal in 9 states. It is performed in five and recognized in another four.
 
CriticalThought said:
This is wrong as well. DOMA only makes it so the federal government doesn't recognize same sex marriage, it does not make it illegal. Hence why same sex marriage is legal in several states.
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Dude it is illegal in most states for a man to marry a man, hence you can't do it. We are not talking a "few" we are talking the majority of the country and the federal government.
 
CriticalThought said:
You made a false statement. Same sex marriage is legal in 9 states. It is performed in five and recognized in another four.
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Can they get married in all 9? No they can't. They can get married in 5, and only 5. End of story.
 
Blackdog said:
Dude it is illegal in most states for a man to marry a man, hence you can't do it.
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I don't live in every state of the United States. I can only live in one at a time. And if I happen to live in one in which same sex marriage is legal, then it is legal.

Are you so proud that you just can't admit that you made a false statement? All this twisting around that you are doing is unbecoming and does nothing to strengthen your position.
 
Your Star said:
You're right, I'll never accept subpar arguments, that will deny me rights.
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I don't think you even know what my arguments are anymore.

Your Star said:
No, it was/is always about families, and children, and never about forcing acceptance, or making it right. Allowing SSM doesn't force you to accept homosexuality as right, it just allows me, and many other LGBT people who wish to form families to do so with all the benefits, and advantages that are give to heterosexual families. Being against SSM, is being anti-family, and there is no way around it.
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I have been around far to many gay activists much older than you I mite add that will honestly tell you what it is about. I do know why you are trying to make it about something it's not and never has been.
 
Blackdog said:
Can they get married in all 9? No they can't. They can get married in 5, and only 5. End of story.
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If you could only buy a gun in five states, but carry one in nine, does that make gun possession legal in nine states? Yes, it does.
 
CriticalThought said:
I don't live in every state of the United States. I can only live in one at a time. And if I happen to live in one in which same sex marriage is legal, then it is legal.

Are you so proud that you just can't admit that you made a false statement? All this twisting around that you are doing is unbecoming and does nothing to strengthen your position.
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I did not make a false statement. You did initially and I corrected it.

You can't even debate it or defend it, you are just accusing now.
 
Blackdog said:
Can they get married in all 9? No they can't. They can get married in 5, and only 5. End of story.
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I'm happy you feel that way because that means you won't oppose passing more laws in more states that don't perform same sex marriages so that they recognize same sex marriages performed in other states.
 
iamitter said:
If you could only buy a gun in five states, but carry one in nine, does that make gun possession legal in nine states? Yes, it does.
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For the record I was talking about getting married, had nothing to do with the states that recognize it initially, he brought that up. Now if you can't but a gun in any of those states, what does that make it?
 
CriticalThought said:
I'm happy you feel that way because that means you won't oppose passing more laws in more states that don't perform same sex marriages so that they recognize same sex marriages performed in other states.
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Yes and no. Civil unions yes, marriage, no.
 
Blackdog said:
I don't think you even know what my arguments are anymore.
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I know exactly what your arguments are, and if you were an atheist I'm sure you would be for SSM. It's all based on your religion.

I have been around far to many gay activists much older than you I mite add that will honestly tell you what it is about. I do know why you are trying to make it about something it's not and never has been.
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You think this proves your assertion :roll: Seriously, SSM promotes family just as much as opposite sex marriage, and you can't even deny that. You haven't even addressed that in your responses towards me. The fact is that if your against SSM your anti-family, because you are saying that not all families deserve the same benefits, and advantages as other families.
 
Blackdog said:
Yes and no. Civil unions yes, marriage, no.
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But it wouldn't be legal in those states according to you. They would just recogniz marriages performed in other states.

Gawd I love the hole you dug yourself.
 
Blackdog said:
No. But I also don't really care if they do.



To bad it would not be recognized in more states than allow it.



Obviously that is not correct in the majority of states.



And yet it is not legal Federally and most states? Sorry no dice.
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Are you honestly that blind at what I said? Show me one state that asks the question "what is your sexuality" on their marriage license form. In fact, if they did, that would be discrimination too. The state cannot legally prevent a homosexual man from marrying a heterosexual or homosexual woman. The discrimination is sex discrimination, not sexuality discrimination. The basis for the discrimination is on sexuality (to try to prevent homosexuals from being able to marry who they would actually want to marry).

And DOMA is discriminating on sex as well. This is what DOMA states.

Under the law, also known as DOMA, no state (or other political subdivision within the United States) needs to treat as a marriage a same-sex relationship considered a marriage in another state (DOMA, Section 2); the federal government defines marriage as a legal union between one man and one woman (DOMA, Section 3).
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Defense of Marriage Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even the federal government is discriminating against sex, not sexuality. No law/rule, either federal or in any state, prevents a person from entering into the legal contract of marriage because of their sexuality. The prevention is based on their sex as it relates to the person they wish to enter into the contract with. That puts it at a higher level of scrutiny than where sexuality sits.

Laws take time to change. Legal challenges are necessary for the SCOTUS to change something, and even they get things wrong. This doesn't mean, that legally, not laws against same sex marriage is discrimination and is unconstitutional per Equal Protection of the 14th Amendment.
 
Blackdog said:
For the record I was talking about getting married, had nothing to do with the states that recognize it initially, he brought that up. Now if you can't but a gun in any of those states, what does that make it?
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It makes it so you can't buy a gun (get married), that's it. It's still lawful to carry one (be married) and that fact is legally acknowledged.

I live in one of these states and know people who benefitted from this myself. The courts held up the constitutionality here, as well. The public, divorce and inheritance benefits are all there.
 
CriticalThought said:
But it wouldn't be legal in those states according to you. They would just recogniz marriages performed in other states.

Gawd I love the hole you dug yourself.
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What the hell are you talking about? It would be legal accepted everyplace as I mean federally recognized civil unions.

What each state does is up to them.
 
Blackdog said:
What the hell are you talking about? It would be legal accepted everyplace as I mean federally recognized civil unions.

What each state does is up to them.
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First you say it isn't legal anywhere in the United States, then you say it is legal in only a handful of states, then you say you oppose some states recognizing same sex marriage performed in other states, then you say you think it is up to each state.

I'm done with you. Your intellectual dishonesty is so transparent it is nauseating. I think you are just another conservative who claims to support civil unions so you won't look like a bigot but you actually don't. I learned from NP after the DADT repeal that conservatives can say one thing but do another when push comes to shove.
 
Your Star said:
I know exactly what your arguments are, and if you were an atheist I'm sure you would be for SSM. It's all based on your religion.
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I was at one time, was against it them as well. No dice luv.

Your Star said:
You think this proves your assertion :roll: Seriously, SSM promotes family just as much as opposite sex marriage, and you can't even deny that. You haven't even addressed that in your responses towards me. The fact is that if your against SSM your anti-family, because you are saying that not all families deserve the same benefits, and advantages as other families.
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I don't think it proves anything to you, but I am not really trying to do so anyway. As for promoting family that is a crock as even regular marriage divorce rates are at 50%+. No dice.
 
CriticalThought said:
First you say it isn't legal anywhere in the United States,
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Please point out where I said that? I did not.

CriticalThought said:
then you say it is legal in only a handful of states
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Yes. I said that.

CriticalThought said:
then you say you oppose some states recognizing same sex marriage performed in other states,
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Never said that. Please point out where?

CriticalThought said:
then you say you think it is up to each state.
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You seem confused. If you would stop trying desperately to read things into what I say, I am certain it would make more sense.

CriticalThought said:
I'm done with you. Your intellectual dishonesty is so transparent it is nauseating. I think you are just another conservative who claims to support civil unions so you won't look like a bigot but you actually don't. I learned from NP after the DADT repeal that conservatives can say one thing but do another when push comes to shove.
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Excellent! Have a good one.
 
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Blackdog said:
I was at one time, was against it them as well. No dice luv.
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I really doubt that, there is no reason to deny SSM besides ones religious convictions.

I don't think it proves anything to you, but I am not really trying to do so anyway. As for promoting family that is a crock as even regular marriage divorce rates are at 50%+. No dice.
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It does promote family, no matter what the divorce rates are. Because even after divorce there are things such as child support, which promote the well being of the child. Just because you want to deny that it promotes family doesn't make it true. And why are LGBT families less deserving of the benefits of marriage again exactly?
 
Your Star said:
I really doubt that, there is no reason to deny SSM besides ones religious convictions.
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Plenty of reasons exist depending on your point of view. I mean I can post comments of atheists/agnostic who do not support it. Some are just racist who hate "fags" some are not. The fact is plenty of them are out there.

Your Star said:
It does promote family, no matter what the divorce rates are. Because even after divorce there are things such as child support, which promote the well being of the child. Just because you want to deny that it promotes family doesn't make it true. And why are LGBT families less deserving of the benefits of marriage again exactly?
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I never said they were not under the law. Please don't put words in my mouth. This does not mean I support them getting married outside of a civil union.

As for the rest you can think what you like, it does not change the reality that it has nothing at all to do with family.
 
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Your Star said:
Why? You can't just say no, and have that be it.

The reason to institute opposite sex marriage is to legally make people family, encourage people to provide a stable home for children, etc. And those same things can be accomplished, encouraged with SSM. And that is a fact.
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No, SSM is argued for the sake of equality. By that note abolishing all marriage makes everyone equal yet does not legally make people family, encourage people to provide a stable home for children, etc. It's all about validating the gay identity, nothing more.
 
Jerry said:
No, SSM is argued for the sake of equality. By that note abolishing all marriage makes everyone equal yet does not legally make people family, encourage people to provide a stable home for children, etc. It's all about validating the gay identity, nothing more.
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This is only true if you conveniently ignore every other argument.
 
Redress said:
This is only true if you conveniently ignore every other argument.
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Not conveniently, matter of fact. No mention of "it's for the family" even came up until recent years, after other arguments failed to push the agenda forward. It is exactly as Jerry pointed out.
 
Blackdog said:
Plenty of reasons exist depending on your point of view. I mean I can post comments of atheists/agnostic who do not support it. Some are just racist who hate "fags" some are not. The fact is plenty of them are out there.
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True, though religious reasons are the number one reason people are against it.

I never said they were not under the law. Please don't put words in my mouth. This does not mean I support them getting married outside of a civil union.

As for the rest you can think what you like, it does not change the reality that it has nothing at all to do with family.
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Right now, civil unions are weaker than marriages, and that's not going to change, and in reality, the only way we are going to get the same benefits is marriage. Also I don't see how you are okay with churches marrying LGBT couples, but not the state. It seems like you would have more of a problem with that, then a secular government doing so.

And no matter what you say, no matter how much you wanna spin it, this argument is not about making people accept LGBT people, it's about letting us live, and thrive in this country just as our heterosexual counterparts. The fact is that for me to start a family is way more difficult than for you, and the only reason is because I'm gay, and your not. If you can't see how wrong that is, then I can't help you.
 
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