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Will Obama go down in history as the president who made America socialist?

I know he will.

  • yes

    Votes: 4 19.0%

  • no

    Votes: 15 71.4%

  • other

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Total voters
    21
Wiseone said:
Not only would one have to believe Barack Obama is socialist, one would also have to believe that after his presidency there is nothing possible for anyone to do after he leaves office. Will anyone here really say that Obama is so powerful, and they are so weak, that regardless of who is elected after him, and after that next President, that they will be unable to change anything?
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Incremental change my friend, that's what they are all about. You saw what happened with something major like Obamacare, didn't you? Did you see the uproar. That was a big mistake, because it came too much too fast. They thought the time was ripe for that much change, but were mistaken. Next time they will approach it much differently.
 
American said:
Incremental change my friend, that's what they are all about. You saw what happened with something major like Obamacare, didn't you? Did you see the uproar. That was a big mistake, because it came too much too fast. They thought the time was ripe for that much change, but were mistaken. Next time they will approach it much differently.
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So you're a conservative, push back. Again is anyone really going to say there's no stopping it like its some leftist tsumani?
 
Wiseone said:
Not only would one have to believe Barack Obama is socialist, one would also have to believe that after his presidency there is nothing possible for anyone to do after he leaves office. Will anyone here really say that Obama is so powerful, and they are so weak, that regardless of who is elected after him, and after that next President, that they will be unable to change anything?
Click to expand...

As government gets bigger and has more control over society it gets gradually more difficult to take back that power...

The trend is that presidents tend to make things worse while they promise to make it better.
 
Wiseone said:
So you're a conservative, push back. Again is anyone really going to say there's no stopping it like its some leftist tsumani?
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It's not a tsunami, it's gradual erosion. That's why leftists get highly pissed at groups like the Tea Party, because they are spoilers. Trust me, leftists know exactly what they are doing. The other thing they do is play with the language, and what words mean. Read my signature, metaphysical subtleties is all part and parcel to playing with the language. Multiculturalism (i.e., divide and conquer) is part of it too.
 
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Wiseone said:
Not only would one have to believe Barack Obama is socialist, one would also have to believe that after his presidency there is nothing possible for anyone to do after he leaves office. Will anyone here really say that Obama is so powerful, and they are so weak, that regardless of who is elected after him, and after that next President, that they will be unable to change anything?
Click to expand...

Some things can be changed, but others can't. It won't be possible to eliminate Obamacare entirely. Obama has been wildly successful. He has permanently transformed America. The indolent class will feed on the livestock class as long as America exists.
 
American said:
It's not a tsunami, it's gradual erosion. That's why leftists get highly pissed at groups like the Tea Party, because they are spoilers. Trust me, leftists know exactly what they are doing. The other thing they do is play with the language, and what words mean.
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Now you are suggesting a conspiracy theory, that leftists say one thing but all secretly have a different goal in mind.
 
Wiseone said:
Now you are suggesting a conspiracy theory, that leftists say one thing but all secretly have a different goal in mind.
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No, it's all out in plain sight, if you can see.
 
from American

Trust me, leftists know exactly what they are doing.
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If you came to some of the Trotsky cell meetings with me you would change your opinion in a matter of an evening. ;)
 
American said:
No, it's all out in plain sight, if you can see.
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O so its the best kind of conspiracy theory, the kind thats still a secret but not a secret if only one can see the truth!

The world isn't a right/left binary system, and the right, as well as the left, aren't monolithic beasts. There is no leftist conspiracy because like any term that includes millions of people there are subdivisions within it and questions about who and who doesn't belong to that group.
 
Those who said NO seem to ignore the fact that ALL presidents are remembered whether they deserve it or not. A better question would be, will his deeds be favorably judged by history.

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
Those who said NO seem to ignore the fact that ALL presidents are remembered whether they deserve it or not. A better question would be, will his deeds be favorably judged by history.
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Hell, that isn't even given anymore. Just look at how FDR is judged - either he saved us from the Great Depression or he extended it a decade. Or Reagan - either he single-handedly brought down the Soviet Union or he was out to disnefranchise minorities and gays.

Presidents are judged, you're absolutely right. But it's all subjective.
 
Wiseone said:
O so its the best kind of conspiracy theory, the kind thats still a secret but not a secret if only one can see the truth!

The world isn't a right/left binary system, and the right, as well as the left, aren't monolithic beasts. There is no leftist conspiracy because like any term that includes millions of people there are subdivisions within it and questions about who and who doesn't belong to that group.
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You can play gotcha games all you want, but there is an agenda. They'd be stupid not to have one.
 
BmanMcfly said:
As government gets bigger and has more control over society it gets gradually more difficult to take back that power...

The trend is that presidents tend to make things worse while they promise to make it better.
Click to expand...

Nothing new here... The only parts of government that have control over us is the IRS, DOD, FICA FBI, NSA, and airport security. Tell me, are you really that disconnected, or is it just another feeble attempt to discredit Obama?

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
Nothing new here... The only parts of government that have control over us is the IRS, DOD, FICA FBI, NSA, and airport security. Tell me, are you really that disconnected, or is it just another feeble attempt to discredit Obama?

ricksfolly
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No... that was without going through the hassle of adding an essay to a series of one and two liners... all I would say is look at how much else has been federalized :
- 'no child left behind'
- 'obamacare'
- DHS through the patriot act and other legislation
- the 'give act' (which was changed in such a way that it omitted the 'mandatory' wording for what would effectively be Obama youth (also read; New york times, "DHS working with boyscouts"))
I could go on... and this isn't a matter of Bush good, Obama bad.
 
BmanMcfly said:
I agree...
But consider that Bush got the country to hate him through the direction he was taking the country, so in unison the majority of americans jumped into Obama's arms on the promise of 'change'... but that 'change' was to take what Bush was doing and amp it up a few notches.

SO, while we can vote out Obama... we have to make sure that we are not voting IN someone who is much worse.
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The problem with the country IS the government.
Where people are misled is when they think that government - more so - A figure IN government - is going to fix all the problems that government has caused.

Everyone campaigns on "going to Washington to clean up that mess" - and they don't. They can't. So we flop to the complete opposite side and hope they'll do a better job . . . and on and on. . . .flip flop flip flop.

If a new president, new focus or new congress would fix the problems then we would SEE fixes everywhere- but we don't . . . our government is self-destructive because they worry more about partisan crappery than what's actually best FOR the country.

Everyone's talking about 'changing' and 'hoping' and having 'faith' - EVERYONE - it's a mindnumbing mantra that Obama and even Beck drone on about . . . but things will never actually change.

In part I see part of the problem is that when we do START to do things right we don't stick with it long enough -it takes a lot of time for things to pan out positively and actually work and people either get to hasty and impatient or we move on and end things before anything really gets going.
 
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American said:
You can play gotcha games all you want, but there is an agenda. They'd be stupid not to have one.
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Whats wrong with having an agenda? Conservatives have an agenda too don't they?
 
Yes he probably will, at least in elite circles.

Does this mean he actually did bring socialism? Haha don't make me laugh.
 
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