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Uniforms in public schools...

Which of these statements do you agree with most?

  • Uniforms should be federally mandated in all public schools.

    Votes: 12 21.8%

  • No public school students should have to wear uniforms.

    Votes: 15 27.3%

  • Uniforms should only be used in public schools with lots of discipline problems.

    Votes: 4 7.3%

  • Somethin' else.

    Votes: 24 43.6%
  • Total voters
    55
Demon of Light said:
I think the nature of society can be understood from how it treats its children.
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Perhaps some... but not entirely.

If you cannot even come up with a valid reason then it indicates you have no business pushing your ideal on anyone, let a lone a child.
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Who said that I couldn't come up wtih a valid reason? What a bizarre thing to say...
I mean, are you trying to make some silly accusation that I might not be a good parent?

Originally Posted by BlackDog
We spanked, lol. Usually only when it got disrespectful though, so it was pretty limited. I think part of the problem then was it was used for everything all the time and that is abusive.

Today parents, teachers no one has any recourse to discipline a child. Even in sports etc they now teach everyone is a winner! So were is the push for discipline or excellence in anything? I'll tell you... it is not around here.
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I never spanked my daughters. I gave them a little swat a few times when they almost ran into the street with traffic at 2 years-old or so, but I would argue that is a far cry from "spanking". That being said, as long as spanking is not done out of anger or in an abusive manner, I don't really have a problem others doing it ...
 
Blackdog said:
Spanking is not abuse, sometimes it is the only thing kids will understand. If they tried that time out crap with me or one of my brothers, please. It would have stopped us from doing nothing. Time out and other stupid disciplinary crap (Mostly by egg heads who never had kids no less) that does not work. Even kids think it's a joke. In the end those of us who were spanked occasionally did well, we knew about boundaries and punishment.

I agree on your second comment.
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I have two daughters and use the time out method many times. If done correctly, it is much more effective than spanking, IMO. It has to be done CORRECTLY though... consistantly, structured, serious and most of all, loving. It works. I have two of the best behaved kids... seriously. I am told time and time again by teachers, librarians and many others.... even the check out people at the stores, how well behaved and polite they are. It comes from having clear guidelines (rules) and expectations of behaviour.

I almost spanked them when they were young, because that is how I was raised... but seeing the terror on their face when they understood what was about to happen stopped me. I figured out (I am a single dad, by the way) how to discipline them POSITVELY.

Originally Posted by Kev316
So slamming someone's parenting is okay on this board? Okay. Then I suggest YOU are what is wrong with parenting. I have 5 kids: 28, 28, 25, 20, and 10. I agree with most of Demon's post. So let's see -
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Wait... did you do that on purpose? Slam somebody about slamming another?
Does that make you a another factor of what is wrong with parenting?
 
Kelzie said:
Shopping is much easier. Course there are other reasons too...



Benefits of School Uniforms in Public Schools | eHow.com

Wow, 91%. But, easier shopping is super important too.
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I had a police officer say one of the advantages of real uniforms is that they could quickly determine if someone who was not a student was on campus.

Did you see the 60 minutes morely safer did several years ago concerning the loony left in a part of England where the LL controlled some local schools? They mandated that once in a while the boys had to wear the girls' uniform and vice versa!
 
Kelzie said:
Really? Prove it. Rules, structure and discipline does not equal child abuse, even a little.
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Oh Kelzie... it is just his little silly Appeal to Emotion. ;)

Dang... I haven't talked with you in a year or so. I hope you are doing great!

Sure you should care. And be prepared to completely disregard it. Children want LOTS of things. Being a parent means telling them no 95% of the time
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I would say 99.8% of the time we say no. The trick is, never give in. I see so many parents giving in... Once you give in, they know they can break you and they wont stop. My kids know that I mean what I say and say what I mean. They ask, but when I say no, they almost always stop asking.
 
TurtleDude said:
I had a police officer say one of the advantages of real uniforms is that they could quickly determine if someone who was not a student was on campus.

Did you see the 60 minutes morely safer did several years ago concerning the loony left in a part of England where the LL controlled some local schools? They mandated that once in a while the boys had to wear the girls' uniform and vice versa!
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I didn't see it, but am kind of surprised it happened in England. They can be very traditional.
 
Kelzie said:
I didn't see it, but am kind of surprised it happened in England. They can be very traditional.
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Safer claimed the loonies were upset with traditional notions of dress and genders
 
Kali said:
Kinda torn on this issue.. I do feel it cuts down on the rich v/s the poor and makes all kids equal in reguards to cool clothes. But the rich kids will just spice their uniforms up with $200 kicks and accessories:confused:

I do feel it would make it much more simple on parents though. Also how about having uniforms up til high school. That would be my choice:)
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It is the other way around... the poor kids are the ones spending $200 bucks on their Air Jordans, money that they can't afford and would be better spent on better food, for instance.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Oh Kelzie... it is just his little silly Appeal to Emotion. ;)

Dang... I haven't talked with you in a year or so. I hope you are doing great!

I would say 99.8% of the time we say no. The trick is, never give in. I see so many parents giving in... Once you give in, they know they can break you and they wont stop. My kids know that I mean what I say and say what I mean. They ask, but when I say no, they almost always stop asking.
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So true. My mom let my little sister stay home one day for a fun day. She never hears the end of it now.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I have two daughters and use the time out method many times. If done correctly, it is much more effective than spanking, IMO. It has to be done CORRECTLY though... consistently, structured, serious and most of all, loving. It works.
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In some cases I am certain it does, but I did teach at the YMCA, I saw it fail time and time again. I watched the female teachers at their wits end trying to figure out how to discipline not one, but entire classrooms. I think being a male helped, but I am also certain because I would use military style discipline (PT) made me the most feared and liked teacher in the school. My kids after I got done were respectful and good, not scared as DOL would have people believe. My PT hurt, but I did everything they did from the youngest up to the oldest in 8th grade. Physical pain when used correctly with discipline will motivate and in most cases alleviate the bad behavior.

Bodhisattva said:
I have two of the best behaved kids... seriously. I am told time and time again by teachers, librarians and many others.... even the check out people at the stores, how well behaved and polite they are. It comes from having clear guidelines (rules) and expectations of behaviour.
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And my daughter is an engineer as well as a Bradly Graduate with a Degree in Environmental engineering. Sounds like we both deserve a pat on the back, lol.

Bodhisattva said:
I almost spanked them when they were young, because that is how I was raised... but seeing the terror on their face when they understood what was about to happen stopped me. I figured out (I am a single dad, by the way) how to discipline them POSITVELY.
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Do you think I ever spanked my daughter??? Oh hell no, mom did it. I cannot hit my little girl no matter how much she needs it.
 
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Kali said:
Kinda torn on this issue.. I do feel it cuts down on the rich v/s the poor and makes all kids equal in reguards to cool clothes. But the rich kids will just spice their uniforms up with $200 kicks and accessories:confused:

I do feel it would make it much more simple on parents though. Also how about having uniforms up til high school. That would be my choice:)
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I don't think it's all about rich vs poor... but I know some kids can get picked on for being really poor. I think it helps teach professionalism, and it actually is less distracting. It's hard to explain, but kids aren't worried about what they are wearing.. what other kids are wearing. It's like nobody is competing for attention from boys with their clothing or whatever... Nobody is worried if they look fat or not cool enough... or what they need to wear to look cool to the cool kids.. lol.
 
Blackdog said:
In some cases I am certain it does, but I did teach at the YMCA, I saw it fail time and time again. I watched the female teachers at their wits end trying to figure out how to discipline not one, but entire classrooms. I think being a male helped, but I am also certain because I would use military style discipline (PT) made me the most feared and liked teacher in the school. My kids after I got done were respectful and good, not scared as DOL would have people believe. My PT hurt, but I did everything they did from the youngest up to the oldest in 8th grade. Physical pain when used correctly with discipline will motivate and in most cases alleviate the bad behavior.
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Like I said, I don't have a problem with non-angry, non-abusive spanking... I would just never do it. I would say though, that the teachers that can't control a classroom of kids that are being raised by parents that don't have real parental authority are facing an even tougher battle if they don't have the skills themselves. As a teacher, I have first hand experience with this. I teach classroom managment professional developement sessions to taechers. Most of the time, most of the staff are not properly equipped to deal with 25-30 students. It is not an innate thing, it must be learned. Same with positive parenting techniques. If done properly, it not only works, but is more productive to the child/student.

You have a great daughter, I was spanked and I am great... shucks, so obviously both can work. I just feel that it would be better if more parents would learn positive parenting and use it properly. That's all...
 
Blackdog said:
Do you think I ever spanked my daughter??? Oh hell no, mom did it. I cannot hit my little girl no matter how much she needs it.
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I can't disciple my nieces most of the time... I am always thankful I don't have kids because of that. My kids would be so bad and spoiled... But I don't know how your wife lets you get away with that... making her do all the disciple. :naughty

You always get to be the cool parent. :2razz:
 
SheWolf said:
I can't disciple my nieces most of the time... I am always thankful I don't have kids because of that. My kids would be so bad and spoiled... But I don't know how your wife lets you get away with that... making her do all the disciple. :naughty

You always get to be the cool parent. :2razz:
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If it worked for them, then it did... but I hear ya, doesn't seem fair.
But NOBODY is ALWAYS the cool parent, not if you are actually parenting, anyway...

Keep your kids in a cool place, like a pantry or fridge, if you don't want them to go bad and spoil.
 
SheWolf said:
I can't disciple my nieces most of the time... I am always thankful I don't have kids because of that. My kids would be so bad and spoiled... But I don't know how your wife lets you get away with that... making her do all the disciple. :naughty

You always get to be the cool parent. :2razz:
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It is just a dad thing I guess, lol. I mean as I was growing up it was mostly dad who did it because we were boys. Besides I can only think of maybe 2 times she had to be spanked at all. I know one of the times it was because she was doing something and mom said do it now and she said... NO. Well I am glad I was out of the picture when that moment arrived. Needless to say she never said no to mom again, lol.
 
Kelzie said:
Show that parents who have more control are more likely to abuse their children. With, you know, a study or something.
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What I am saying is common sense. If a spouse always tries to control what the other spouse is doing that is a red flag. There is no difference here.

Blackdog said:
That is a bull**** lie. You want to point out again where I said anything even close too...
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I was unintentionally exaggerating, but the fact is you clearly said that spanking is necessary so you apparently think in some cases violence is the only way to instruct someone.

Please point out where I said any of that is bad parenting???
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Here:

Blackdog said:
You have never been a parent have you? And if you have you are, well this is a good example of how NOT to be a parent.

And people wonder why kids or so wacked up now days. :doh
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That was your only response to my post where I said among other things that parents should care about what their children want after you said otherwise. If you were not addressing that comment you should not have included it in the quote to which you responded.

The fact is kids need and expect control from low and behold! A ****ing parent! It is not only OK to control your kids as an adult since YOU KNOW BEST FOR THEM (or at least you are supposed to) it is expected by society to raise well adjusted children who feel (you guessed it!) loved and cared for!

It's not being kind that makes you a bad parent, it's not being a PARENT, that makes you a bad parent.
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That you think being a parent inherently comes with an unqualified superiority complex says it all.

Or perhaps considering your complete misunderstanding and over dramatization of everything, have once again jumped to the wrong conclusion?
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I doubt it considering I have not had any "complete misunderstanding" of anything or overdramatized anything.

OK here is my statement...

Spanking is not abuse, sometimes it is the only thing kids will understand. If they tried that time out crap with me or one of my brothers, please. It would have stopped us from doing nothing. Time out and other stupid disciplinary crap (Mostly by egg heads who never had kids no less) that does not work. Even kids think it's a joke. In the end those of us who were spanked occasionally did well, we knew about boundaries and punishment. - Blackdog

To which you respond with the unadulterated nonsense that completely ignores what I said and makes some kind of lame ass blanket statement that is wrong.

When you play the risk-reward game you only teach kids not to get caught or that violence is the way to solve your problems. If someone is only raised to weigh actions according to how it may be beneficial or harmful then that person is not going to be capable of reacting appropriately in some situations. - Demon of Light

Yes I am saying your whole statement is complete and unadulterated nonsense.
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There was nothing nonsensical about my comment. You just apparently fail to understand what your own parenting ideas represent. A notion of "praise" for good kids and "discipline" for bad kids is all about risk-reward.

Oh my god? Did you read ANYTHING in this thread? :doh
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I sure as hell did. Did you? There were some disinterested comments about it potentially saving money, but the really impassioned arguments are all about social control.

Bodhisattva said:
Who said that I couldn't come up wtih a valid reason? What a bizarre thing to say...
I mean, are you trying to make some silly accusation that I might not be a good parent?
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I doubt there are many, if any, truly good parents out there. However, "because I said so" is the common response when someone does not have a real answer.
 
Blackdog said:
It is just a dad thing I guess, lol. I mean as I was growing up it was mostly dad who did it because we were boys. Besides I can only think of maybe 2 times she had to be spanked at all. I know one of the times it was because she was doing something and mom said do it now and she said... NO. Well I am glad I was out of the picture when that moment arrived. Needless to say she never said no to mom again, lol.
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My mom had the opposite problem. All her girls needed to be spanked a couple times. Her one boy was an angel.
 
Demon of Light said:
What I am saying is common sense. If a spouse always tries to control what the other spouse is doing that is a red flag. There is no difference here.
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Your analogy (and your common sense) falls apart because spouses do not need to control each other. Parents need to control their children. Anyone who says differently has never had a child. Even the worst parents agrees that a kid needs to be controlled sometimes.

Seriously though. There are a ton of studies of abusive parents. Back up your point. I only insist because I know you completely made it up.
 
Kelzie said:
My mom had the opposite problem. All her girls needed to be spanked a couple times. Her one boy was an angel.
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Nope, that is exactly how it works, lol.
 
Demon of Light said:
What I am saying is common sense. If a spouse always tries to control what the other spouse is doing that is a red flag. There is no difference here.
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That is not common sense... common sense tells us that parents have to have control of their children, if for no other reason than for safety.

That you think being a parent inherently comes with an unqualified superiority complex says it all.
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Argumentative and fallicious...

I doubt there are many, if any, truly good parents out there. However, "because I said so" is the common response when someone does not have a real answer.
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There are many... sorry you don't know any of them. And if you re-read why I toss out the ol' "Because I said so" as well as all the rest that I have written you might find out why having or not having the good or real answer is irrelevant...
 
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Blackdog said:
It is just a dad thing I guess, lol. I mean as I was growing up it was mostly dad who did it because we were boys. Besides I can only think of maybe 2 times she had to be spanked at all. I know one of the times it was because she was doing something and mom said do it now and she said... NO. Well I am glad I was out of the picture when that moment arrived. Needless to say she never said no to mom again, lol.
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My dad was the same way too... Then when our mom tried to disciple us, we'd run to him.. :lamo

but she would complain about always being the mean parent
 
Demon of Light said:
I doubt there are many, if any, truly good parents out there. However, "because I said so" is the common response when someone does not have a real answer.
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I have decided responding to you is pretty useless at this point. I did however want to cover your highlighted statement...

If that were true, people like you would never have survived. Good parents protected and guided their young so they would not be eaten by predators.

Welcome to the jungle.
 
Your Star said:
I don't see uniforms would help the kids be disciplined. All it will really do is make kids pissed off that they have to wear them.
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No it won't, and it's irrelevant what they think. They are the student and will wear what they are told to.
 
American said:
No it won't, and it's irrelevant what they think. They are the student and will wear what they are told to.
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Absolutely... and it is interesting hearing non-parents and non-teachers who have never actually talked to students or teachers that go to schools with dress codes and see what they think. As a teacher at a school with a dress code, I would think that people would be asking me what it is like instead of offering up all sorts of idiotic and ill-informed opinions.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Absolutely... and it is interesting hearing non-parents and non-teachers who have never actually talked to students or teachers that go to schools with dress codes and see what they think. As a teacher at a school with a dress code, I would think that people would be asking me what it is like instead of offering up all sorts of idiotic and ill-informed opinions.
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As a teacher at a school with uniforms and a parent of a child at another school with uniforms (all schools in the country use them except for the American and European ex-pat schools), I MUCH prefer school uniforms, for reasons mentioned in an earlier post AND because I never have to fight with my girls about what they are going to wear to school in the morning.
 
soccerboy22 said:
Uniforms neither make kids well-educated nor addicted to drugs.
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http://www.principalspartnership.com/schooluniforms.pdf

Yeah, go ahead and twist the meaning. Would it be true if I said you hate minorities, because you want to bankrupt their parents who spend all their money on the latest style? No, I don't think that's the case, but if you want to play the game of twisting meanings we can.

My three children went to private christian school for many years, and then public school later on. I can tell you that school uniforms are the most advantageous to the poorer children (regardless of the above study), because parents don't buy expensive clothes for school, which then wear out sooner. Uniforms (i.e., navy pants, white polo) can be purchased cheaper than designer clothes, and ultimately save the poor money.
 
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