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Uniforms in public schools...

Which of these statements do you agree with most?

  • Uniforms should be federally mandated in all public schools.

    Votes: 12 21.8%

  • No public school students should have to wear uniforms.

    Votes: 15 27.3%

  • Uniforms should only be used in public schools with lots of discipline problems.

    Votes: 4 7.3%

  • Somethin' else.

    Votes: 24 43.6%
  • Total voters
    55
Blackdog said:
We spanked, lol. Usually only when it got disrespectful though, so it was pretty limited. I think part of the problem then was it was used for everything all the time and that is abusive.

Today parents, teachers no one has any recourse to discipline a child. Even in sports etc they now teach everyone is a winner! So were is the push for discipline or excellence in anything? I'll tell you... it is not around here.
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While I don't agree that spanking is good, I do agree that the everyone is a winner crap is bull. Failure is a valuable lesson, and too many kids are missing out on it, not because they aren't failing, it's because no one tells them.
 
Alfons said:
I am pro uniforms, it is absolutely necessary because without uniforms there is no serious education, children have not discipline, want to wear only expensive brands, make anything they want.
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Oh good grief.....
 
Demon of Light said:
The way I see it the only real requirement should be if someone can see your undergarments without having to try. Honestly, are you going to ban two-piece swimsuits at the pool? I mean, I can understand leaving out shirts with graphic material and things like that, but making students act like little automatons is not going to be a net benefit to society.

There is no need for parents to be fascists. Child abuse is a result of that desire for control you are expressing.

What a terrible thing to say. You most certainly should care what kids want.

I think the nature of society can be understood from how it treats its children.

If you cannot even come up with a valid reason then it indicates you have no business pushing your ideal on anyone, let a lone a child.
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You have never been a parent have you? And if you have you are, well this is a good example of how NOT to be a parent.

And people wonder why kids or so wacked up now days. :doh
 
MissLToe said:
We're having this discussion in the education section, so I thought I'd bring it up here for a poll.

Your opinions, please and thank you. :)
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I voted "Something else."

I think it should be left to each individual school. Not even each individual school district, but rather each individual school.
 
I can only speak for myself in that I would have hated being forced to wear a uniform. I'm aware of the disparity that is created in schools when children compete over what clothing they wear, but news flash: children compete over everything, from who has the prettiest face, to tic-tac-toe.

I would much rather see the school system move toward fostering each student's individual talents than stepping more in the direction of militant conformity. But I suppose that's exactly what the public school system has been... it's obedience education for the middle class.

I find that what you wear can often be its own instructional learning process. For instance, I went through a phase where I wore all black. I didn't identify as goth (and didn't wear the makeup), but I wanted to try it. Seeing other people's reactions to my outfit and seeing how I felt in that outfit was a learning experience for me. Now I have great fashion sense as an adult. ;) For many young people, clothing is a creative outlet. I know it was for me.

If my school implemented a uniform policy, I would have moved to a different school.
 
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Your Star said:
While I don't agree that spanking is good, I do agree that the everyone is a winner crap is bull. Failure is a valuable lesson, and too many kids are missing out on it, not because they aren't failing, it's because no one tells them.
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Spanking is not abuse, sometimes it is the only thing kids will understand. If they tried that time out crap with me or one of my brothers, please. It would have stopped us from doing nothing. Time out and other stupid disciplinary crap (Mostly by egg heads who never had kids no less) that does not work. Even kids think it's a joke. In the end those of us who were spanked occasionally did well, we knew about boundaries and punishment.

I agree on your second comment.
 
Blackdog said:
You have never been a parent have you? And if you have you are, well this is a good example of how NOT to be a parent.

And people wonder why kids or so wacked up now days. :doh
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So slamming someone's parenting is okay on this board? Okay. Then I suggest YOU are what is wrong with parenting. I have 5 kids: 28, 28, 25, 20, and 10. I agree with most of Demon's post. So let's see -

My 28 yo son went to Southern Illinois University.
My 28 year old daughter went to Illinois State University.
My 25 year old is at Keller graduate school working on her MBA. She has an accounting degree.
My 20 year old daughter is at Western Illinois University.
My 10 year old is a happy, healthy grade schooler.

With the exception of my ten year old, my kids are on their own and doing very very well. How are yours?
 
Demon of Light said:
There is no need for parents to be fascists. Child abuse is a result of that desire for control you are expressing.
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Really? Prove it. Rules, structure and discipline does not equal child abuse, even a little.

Demon of Light said:
What a terrible thing to say. You most certainly should care what kids want.
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Sure you should care. And be prepared to completely disregard it. Children want LOTS of things. Being a parent means telling them no 95% of the time.
 
Kelzie said:
Really? Prove it. Rules, structure and discipline does not equal child abuse, even a little.



Sure you should care. And be prepared to completely disregard it. Children want LOTS of things. Being a parent means telling them no 95% of the time.
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Good parenting...

Then again, it's my opinion that bad parenting doesn't exist - If you're a bad parent, you're not a parent in that sense.

Of course, I've never been a parent...But my parents did a fairly good job, I think.
 
Blackdog said:
I think school uniforms are just fine. You are there to learn, not for a fashion show or prove who is the coolest. Uniforms do away with the need for an enforcible dress code etc. It saves a lot of headaches in the long run.

In the end we don't care what the "kids" want, that's because they are still "kids."
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I thought dress codes were kind of stupid.... I remember my friend got in trouble for a shirt she was wearing, and they sent her home or suspended her for the day. It was because they could see some of her bra.. it was a thick strapped shirt, not a spaghetti strap and it covered her whole shoulder. It was really hot in the summer and they sent her home, but another girl had a similar shirt on with no bra. You could see her nipples! But you couldn't see her bra, so that was ok... stupid
 
Kinda torn on this issue.. I do feel it cuts down on the rich v/s the poor and makes all kids equal in reguards to cool clothes. But the rich kids will just spice their uniforms up with $200 kicks and accessories:confused:

I do feel it would make it much more simple on parents though. Also how about having uniforms up til high school. That would be my choice:)
 
Blackdog said:
Spanking is not abuse, sometimes it is the only thing kids will understand. If they tried that time out crap with me or one of my brothers, please. It would have stopped us from doing nothing. Time out and other stupid disciplinary crap (Mostly by egg heads who never had kids no less) that does not work. Even kids think it's a joke. In the end those of us who were spanked occasionally did well, we knew about boundaries and punishment.

I agree on your second comment.
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Hitting a child to try to teach them right from wrong is one hell of a way to send a message:roll:

Folks can say spanking is not hitting but laying your hands on a child is hitting.

I sometimes feel spanking is simply lazy parenting and an easy way out for parents. Nothing works but hitting a child? Total B.S.
 
Blackdog said:
We spanked, lol. Usually only when it got disrespectful though, so it was pretty limited. I think part of the problem then was it was used for everything all the time and that is abusive.

Today parents, teachers no one has any recourse to discipline a child. Even in sports etc they now teach everyone is a winner! So were is the push for discipline or excellence in anything? I'll tell you... it is not around here.
Click to expand...

Your problem is you think the only way kids can learn something is with violence, which just may teach them that violence is the only way to get what you want out of someone.

Blackdog said:
You have never been a parent have you? And if you have you are, well this is a good example of how NOT to be a parent.

And people wonder why kids or so wacked up now days. :doh
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The reason kids are "wacked up" is not because of parents being nicer to their kids, but being less attentive.

Blackdog said:
Spanking is not abuse, sometimes it is the only thing kids will understand. If they tried that time out crap with me or one of my brothers, please. It would have stopped us from doing nothing. Time out and other stupid disciplinary crap (Mostly by egg heads who never had kids no less) that does not work. Even kids think it's a joke. In the end those of us who were spanked occasionally did well, we knew about boundaries and punishment.

I agree on your second comment.
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It sure sounds convincing, but when you get right down to it things rarely work out that way. Of the times I recall my parents spanking me it was never for something legitimately wrong, I tended to get away with the stuff that I did do wrong simply because I did not let them know. Really that is what it comes down to in the end. Kids inevitably get punished for things that are not really wrong, sometimes it is even because the child reacts to something the parent is doing wrong, and learn to try and keep their parents from knowing when they actually do something wrong.

When you play the risk-reward game you only teach kids not to get caught or that violence is the way to solve your problems. If someone is only raised to weigh actions according to how it may be beneficial or harmful then that person is not going to be capable of reacting appropriately in some situations.

Kelzie said:
Really? Prove it. Rules, structure and discipline does not equal child abuse, even a little.
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I did not say it equaled child abuse, only that the same underlying mentality motivates it. To put it simply, you cannot have absolute control over anyone and seeking to attain such control can only have negative consequences.
 
I support schools uniforms. I have spent alot of my time in school with a uniform and a dress code and I also spent alot of time in college without any. I honestly hated having no school uniform when I was given the option of what to wear because my time spent from dressing to go to school sky rocketed.
In my old school, you could tell what year someone was in by the colour of the badge on their jumper
 
Kev316 said:
So slamming someone's parenting is okay on this board? Okay. Then I suggest YOU are what is wrong with parenting. I have 5 kids: 28, 28, 25, 20, and 10. I agree with most of Demon's post. So let's see -

My 28 yo son went to Southern Illinois University.
My 28 year old daughter went to Illinois State University.
My 25 year old is at Keller graduate school working on her MBA. She has an accounting degree.
My 20 year old daughter is at Western Illinois University.
My 10 year old is a happy, healthy grade schooler.

With the exception of my ten year old, my kids are on their own and doing very very well. How are yours?
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There is no need for parents to be fascists. Child abuse is a result of that desire for control you are expressing.

What a terrible thing to say. You most certainly should care what kids want.

These are what I was specifically responding to. Sorry but anyone who things strong discipline is "fascist" is a bad parent.

Good for your kids. :doh
 
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Kali said:
Hitting a child to try to teach them right from wrong is one hell of a way to send a message:roll:
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Yes it is, do it again and you get the same. Just like most sessages. Amazing how that works.

Kali said:
Folks can say spanking is not hitting but laying your hands on a child is hitting.
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I will say exactly what it is ... slapping a hand hitting a kids bottom, I am not worried about you trying to use the word "hitting" in a vain attempt to make it sound abusive when it's not.

Kali said:
I sometimes feel spanking is simply lazy parenting and an easy way out for parents. Nothing works but hitting a child? Total B.S.
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Please point out where anyone said nothing works but hitting a child? :roll:
 
In Taiwan, all school students wear school uniforms.

I don't believe it should be federally mandated (as per your option), but I would support STATE or LOCAL mandates to wear them...
 
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Demon of Light said:
Your problem is you think the only way kids can learn something is with violence, which just may teach them that violence is the only way to get what you want out of someone.
Click to expand...

No but this is a good example of them not learning good reading comprehension.

Now point out where I said anything even close?

Demon of Light said:
The reason kids are "wacked up" is not because of parents being nicer to their kids, but being less attentive.
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What does parents being nicer to their kids have to do with anything I even remotely mentioned? :doh

Demon of Light said:
It sure sounds convincing, but when you get right down to it things rarely work out that way. Of the times I recall my parents spanking me it was never for something legitimately wrong, I tended to get away with the stuff that I did do wrong simply because I did not let them know. Really that is what it comes down to in the end. Kids inevitably get punished for things that are not really wrong, sometimes it is even because the child reacts to something the parent is doing wrong, and learn to try and keep their parents from knowing when they actually do something wrong.
Click to expand...

So a bad parent spanks for the wrong reasons in the first place? No! :roll: Spanking or not a bad parent is a bad parent, is a bad parent.

Demon of Light said:
When you play the risk-reward game you only teach kids not to get caught or that violence is the way to solve your problems. If someone is only raised to weigh actions according to how it may be beneficial or harmful then that person is not going to be capable of reacting appropriately in some situations.
Click to expand...

Where did this nonsense come from??? Please point out where anyone in this thread said anything even close to that bat **** insane ranting? Of course I just had to note that watching you play the "risk-reward game" with a 7 year old does make me snicker.

Demon of Light said:
I did not say it equaled child abuse, only that the same underlying mentality motivates it. To put it simply, you cannot have absolute control over anyone and seeking to attain such control can only have negative consequences.
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No one is talking about absolute control, but you.
 
Kali said:
Kinda torn on this issue.. I do feel it cuts down on the rich v/s the poor and makes all kids equal in reguards to cool clothes. But the rich kids will just spice their uniforms up with $200 kicks and accessories:confused:

I do feel it would make it much more simple on parents though. Also how about having uniforms up til high school. That would be my choice:)
Click to expand...

Then schools can ban such accessories...


I strongly support the use of school uniforms. Not the least of which is cost, and I don't have to fight with my girls about what they will wear everyday. Also, as all students are required to wear them along with the class and seat number on the uniform, it can be easily determined if the student is at the place where he/she should be at all times... not to mention easy to distinquish between those who should be there and who shouldn't... So, safety is enhanced as well...
 
Blackdog said:
No but this is a good example of them not learning good reading comprehension.

Now point out where I said anything even close?
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You apparently think spanking is needed, which is just indicative of what I was saying.

What does parents being nicer to their kids have to do with anything I even remotely mentioned? :doh
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My whole post was about giving kids more freedom and not trying to control them as such. I happen to think it is nice to not try and control people. That you think such kindness is bad parenting is clear enough.

So a bad parent spanks for the wrong reasons in the first place? No! :roll: Spanking or not a bad parent is a bad parent, is a bad parent.
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The only parents I know that have not spanked a child for the wrong reason at least once are the parents that don't spank. Perhaps you are letting your personal connection to the subject cloud your judgment.

Where did this nonsense come from??? Please point out where anyone in this thread said anything even close to that bat **** insane ranting? Of course I just had to note that watching you play the "risk-reward game" with a 7 year old does make me snicker.
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Nonsense? Are you saying you were not talking about "disciplining" children? The whole notion is about social conditioning by having the child associate displeasure with something the parent does not desire. It is ingrained in our culture this notion of goods kids getting rewarded and bad kids getting punished. Were you suggesting some different tact?

No one is talking about absolute control, but you.
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The whole demand for school uniforms is rooted in a desire for absolute control. It is premised on the idea that somehow you can make kids be in tune with what you consider desirable by forcing them to wear certain clothing.
 
Demon of Light said:
I did not say it equaled child abuse, only that the same underlying mentality motivates it. To put it simply, you cannot have absolute control over anyone and seeking to attain such control can only have negative consequences.
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Really, cause you say so? That's cute. Show that parents who have more control are more likely to abuse their children. With, you know, a study or something.
 
Blackdog said:
There is no need for parents to be fascists. Child abuse is a result of that desire for control you are expressing.

What a terrible thing to say. You most certainly should care what kids want.

These are what I was specifically responding to. Sorry but anyone who things strong discipline is "fascist" is a bad parent.

Good for your kids. :doh
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Discipline is not abuse, agreed. Thank you.
 
I'm ambivalent about school uniforms vs street clothes. There are pro's and con's for each mode.
 
Just testing my new sig:
 
Demon of Light said:
You apparently think spanking is needed, which is just indicative of what I was saying.
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That is a bull**** lie. You want to point out again where I said anything even close too...

Your problem is you think the only way kids can learn something is with violence, which just may teach them that violence is the only way to get what you want out of someone. -Demon of Light

Demon of Light said:
My whole post was about giving kids more freedom and not trying to control them as such. I happen to think it is nice to not try and control people. That you think such kindness is bad parenting is clear enough.
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Please point out where I said any of that is bad parenting??? The fact is kids need and expect control from low and behold! A ****ing parent! It is not only OK to control your kids as an adult since YOU KNOW BEST FOR THEM (or at least you are supposed to) it is expected by society to raise well adjusted children who feel (you guessed it!) loved and cared for!

It's not being kind that makes you a bad parent, it's not being a PARENT, that makes you a bad parent.

Demon of Light said:
The only parents I know that have not spanked a child for the wrong reason at least once are the parents that don't spank. Perhaps you are letting your personal connection to the subject cloud your judgment.
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Or perhaps considering your complete misunderstanding and over dramatization of everything, have once again jumped to the wrong conclusion?

Demon of Light said:
Nonsense? Are you saying you were not talking about "disciplining" children? The whole notion is about social conditioning by having the child associate displeasure with something the parent does not desire. It is ingrained in our culture this notion of goods kids getting rewarded and bad kids getting punished. Were you suggesting some different tact?
Click to expand...

OK here is my statement...

Spanking is not abuse, sometimes it is the only thing kids will understand. If they tried that time out crap with me or one of my brothers, please. It would have stopped us from doing nothing. Time out and other stupid disciplinary crap (Mostly by egg heads who never had kids no less) that does not work. Even kids think it's a joke. In the end those of us who were spanked occasionally did well, we knew about boundaries and punishment. - Blackdog

To which you respond with the unadulterated nonsense that completely ignores what I said and makes some kind of lame ass blanket statement that is wrong.

When you play the risk-reward game you only teach kids not to get caught or that violence is the way to solve your problems. If someone is only raised to weigh actions according to how it may be beneficial or harmful then that person is not going to be capable of reacting appropriately in some situations. - Demon of Light

Yes I am saying your whole statement is complete and unadulterated nonsense.

Demon of Light said:
The whole demand for school uniforms is rooted in a desire for absolute control. It is premised on the idea that somehow you can make kids be in tune with what you consider desirable by forcing them to wear certain clothing.
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Oh my god? Did you read ANYTHING in this thread? :doh
 
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