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How much should cops be paid?

How much should cops make in a year, on average?

  • Less than 50K starting

    Votes: 17 47.2%

  • 50-60K starting

    Votes: 11 30.6%

  • 60-80K starting

    Votes: 8 22.2%

  • 80K-100K starting

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 100K and up

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    36
Catz Part Deux said:
I consider $43k a year a reasonable starting salary for a cop in Chicago, especially since I believe that CPD requires a degree. I don't believe that a cop should earn more than a soldier. However, our failure to adequately pay our armed forces is no justification for cutting pay for other vital functions. In addition to pay, of course, soldiers receive many benefits, such as a housing allowance, which should be taken into consideration when calculating their pay.
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$57,000 after eighteen months is not chicken feed. Combine that with regular advancement and pension/health benefits to choke a freakin' horse and it's a huge burden on taxpayers. Huge. Teacher/copper/firemen pensions are bankrupting many of our states. And still, they're such a sacrosanct jobs that people want to pay them more. Drives me nutz. ;-)
 
Goshin said:
Let's look at it from the standpoint of what they could be making in private industry.

Most departments these days are requiring either a 2 year degree in Criminology, or a 4 year degree in whatever.

You must be physically able to pass the PT tests; learn to shoot to certain standards; attend several weeks of training at the Academy, and ongoing training forever; work under stressful and adverse conditions, dealing with danger and confrontation daily.

Sounds like they ought to be making what other educated and well-trained, versatile professionals are making in private industry, and that 50-100k is not unreasonable depending on experience/seniority/accomplishments and the cost of living in their area.
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They look for confrontation daily. Most people would not want to be bothered by police officers. But the police does not let up. There is money to be made for the city to pay for their inflated pension and benefit and salary. Also the dangers facing the police are overstated. Few police officers actually go after violent criminals. Those police officers that do; deserve a six figure salary and pension in the 30k. But that won't happen.
 
MaggieD said:
$57,000 after eighteen months is not chicken feed.
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After 18 months, the city has perhaps invested 20-30k in training. You have to pay your people enough that they will stay in the job, and use those skills FOR YOU. I consider it reasonable pay for the area in which you live.



Combine that with regular advancement and pension/health benefits to choke a freakin' horse and it's a huge burden on taxpayers. Huge.
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I notice you've refused, several times, to answer the question about whether cops should make as much money as accountants. Cops and teachers have specialized skills. They do difficult work. With cops and firefighters, they risk their lives every time they make a call for service. And yet, they probably make half of what an accountant, with the same level of experience, makes in your city.

Teacher/copper/firemen pensions are bankrupting many of our states.
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Actually, states spend money on a lot more stupid things than cop/firefighter/teacher pensions. My goodness, you've really worked up a heady rant here, haven't you?

If their jobs are so easy, and pay so well, why aren't you doing one of them?

And still, they're such a sacrosanct jobs that people want to pay them more. Drives me nutz. ;-)
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I can see that you're driven nuts. I'm a non-sworn person who's worked closely with cops for the last 16 years. I have given you several solid reasons for why cops are paid as they currently are. You've ignored all of them, preferring to hold onto your indignation.

That makes logical reasoning rather difficult.
 
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After 18 months, the city has perhaps invested 20-30k in training. You have to pay your people enough that they will stay in the job, and use those skills FOR YOU. I consider it reasonable pay for the area in which you live.
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Just like any other job. If they werent commited in the 1st place they should have the darn job! If $58K isnt enough money for them they should have known that before hand!
You lose argument!



I notice you've refused, several times, to answer the question about whether cops should make as much money as accountants. Cops and teachers have specialized skills. They do difficult work. With cops and firefighters, they risk their lives every time they make a call for service. And yet, they probably make half of what an accountant, with the same level of experience, makes in your city.
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What about construction workers? What about truck drivers? What about nail stylists (or whatever they are called)
We can compare one job to the next regarding DANGER. Cops generally have a very safe working environment. I know this as fact because my ex-fiance was one!!!


Actually, states spend money on a lot more stupid things than cop/firefighter/teacher pensions. My goodness, you've really worked up a heady rant here, haven't you?
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States DO spend money on stupid things. BUT..... does THAT mean we should keep the huge amount of money wasted going to these people that dont deserve it? NO!

If their jobs are so easy, and pay so well, why aren't you doing one of them?
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Now thats a goofy discussion. Maybe she likes to do something else?


I can see that you're driven nuts. I'm a non-sworn person who's worked closely with cops for the last 16 years. I have given you several solid reasons for why cops are paid as they currently are. You've ignored all of them, preferring to hold onto your indignation.
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I shall answer FOR Maggie and say.... it is inaccurate for you to say Im driven nuts.... so Im glad youre not working with detectives. Also the very AWESOME Giant Noodle has proved to everyone time and time again why cops, teachers and firefolks should NOT get paid so much AND with a pension AND with free healthcare AND with all the perks. If you cant understand that then I feel you have lost this discussion.
That makes logical reasoning rather difficult.[/QUOTE]
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
After 18 months, the city has perhaps invested 20-30k in training. You have to pay your people enough that they will stay in the job, and use those skills FOR YOU. I consider it reasonable pay for the area in which you live.
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I like that reasoning, Catz. Makes sense.

I notice you've refused, several times, to answer the question about whether cops should make as much money as accountants. Cops and teachers have specialized skills. They do difficult work. With cops and firefighters, they risk their lives every time they make a call for service. And yet, they probably make half of what an accountant, with the same level of experience, makes in your city.
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When I answered with the soldier reference, I was, in essence, answering your question. It is very difficult to quantify jobs one-on- one like that, in my opinion. I don't know what the average accountant's starting salary is in the Chicago area. I do know that whatever it is, I, as a taxpayer, don't have to pay it. And further, I know that the give-take negotiations of that salary were done at arm's length rather than being the political footballs/hot potatoes that copper/firemen/teacher salaries are.

Actually, states spend money on a lot more stupid things than cop/firefighter/teacher pensions. My goodness, you've really worked up a heady rant here, haven't you?
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No heady rant here. I feel strongly about the subject. I'm sure you have some you feel strongly about as well. Fact is, I know you do. ;-)

If their jobs are so easy, and pay so well, why aren't you doing one of them?
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I'd do it in a heartbeat "if I knew then what I know now" -- teacher/fireman/copper/federal-state employee.

I can see that you're driven nuts. I'm a non-sworn person who's worked closely with cops for the last 16 years. I have given you several solid reasons for why cops are paid as they currently are. You've ignored all of them, preferring to hold onto your indignation. That makes logical reasoning rather difficult.
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At least you admit your bias. I was offered the job as Admin Asst. to the Chief of Police in my little town. I shoulda' taken it in hindsight. When middle-class people are being squeezed out of their neighborhoods and out of their homes because they cannot afford to pay the property taxes that are assessed due to the most generous salaries provided to our public servants, something is wrong.

I am blessed in that I'm not one of those people, but I feel for those who are in that position. Here in suburban Chicago there are plenty of them.
 
It all depends on the city they work in. I live in a small country town that is very low on crime. I hope the police aren't pulling in anymore than 50k, all they are doing is enforcing traffic laws and busting high school pot dealers.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Also the very AWESOME Giant Noodle has proved to everyone time and time again why cops, teachers and firefolks should NOT get paid so much AND with a pension AND with free healthcare AND with all the perks.
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Actually, all the Giant Noodle has done is demonstrate envy and baseless degrading of folks in those positions. The Giant Noodle has presented no evidence, has ignored all evidence, and has presented nothing but an indignant opinion. That is why the Giant Noodle has lost this debate, completely.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Just like any other job. If they werent commited in the 1st place they should have the darn job! If $58K isnt enough money for them they should have known that before hand!
You lose argument!
What about construction workers? What about truck drivers? What about nail stylists (or whatever they are called)
We can compare one job to the next regarding DANGER. Cops generally have a very safe working environment. I know this as fact because my ex-fiance was one!!!
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Noodle, you know two things, and I'm not going to name them but the first one is Jack.

I don't know what specific speciality your ex-fiancee had but I can assure you most cops do not have a safe working environment.

When I was a cop, granted 13 years ago, I made 25k a year. Yes, I had pretty good benefits and they didn't cost that much... I needed them. I went to the hospital 3 times due to injuries sustained in the line of duty.

I'd tell you how many times I dealt with an armed suspect, but I lost count.

I'd tell you how many times I dealt with a suspect who wanted to fight, but I lost count in my rookie year. No tazers back then, btw.

Do you know how many times I was at-risk of exposure to HIV, hepatitis, or tuberculosis?? Lots. We had to take tests every 6 months to see if we'd contracted anything from any of the lovely people we dealt with.

Do you have any idea how many times some criminal cussed at blue streak at me, calling me and my Mama everything but a child-o-God.... and how hard it was sometimes to put my anger aside and act as a professional?

Never mind other unpleasantness like seeing dead children, dealing with people who had suffered things so terrible that they were weeping and wailing like their grief had no end... and then you go home and try to act like a normal human being with the wife and kids.

You have no clue.

Lots of small towns and communities have volunteer part-time officers. Go do that for a year. You won't get anything like the full dose that a full-time regular cop does, but you'll get the idea. You might find a slightly greater appreciation for those who do that job at the end of it.

That's assuming you could even hack it for a year, part-time, which I doubt. It takes a special personality type to cope with all that and stay sane... and you don't strike me as having the right stuff.
 
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Ah... ex-fiance was a cop. NOW we know the source of Noodle's anger towards this profession. I think it's pretty well established that Noodle doesn't know what he's talking about on this issue. My mom was a teacher for 44 years... teaching in one of the worst inner city schools in one of the worst cities in the country. She would go YEARS without missing a day of work... and because of her teaching, some of these kids learned to read, to write, and learned the importance of an education. Education is the number one way that people... especially the poor, excel. So, yes, people like my mother have more impact on society than near any other profession. Growing up, I didn't live in a huge house, at one point, my mom drove the same car for 20 years, and though I didn't starve, none of us could have everything we wanted. There were definitely times when money was tight. With the importance level of the job, payment should absolutely have been better. So, no... teachers, cops, and firemen, because of their importance to the foundation of society, should be some of the best paid folks out there. Noodle has presented nothing to counter this... in fact, all he has presented is unsubstantiated anger. Maybe the EX in ex-fiance has something to do with that.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I don't think you have the quick thinking skills that law enforcement work (particularly in a large city) requires. I think you're very, very nice, but I think you'd leave your gun on top of your car.
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Oh, maaaan....and you got thanked twice. Noodle!!! I wuv you. ;-)

CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, all the Giant Noodle has done is demonstrate envy and baseless degrading of folks in those positions. The Giant Noodle has presented no evidence, has ignored all evidence, and has presented nothing but an indignant opinion. That is why the Giant Noodle has lost this debate, completely.
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Showing concern about how our tax dollars are spent is not envy, nor is it baseless degrading of folks in these positions. What evidence have you presented that LEO are underpaid? Just your opinion, and you know what they say about those...

Goshin said:
Noodle, you know two things, and I'm not going to name them but the first one is Jack.

I don't know what specific speciality your ex-fiancee had but I can assure you most cops do not have a safe working environment.

When I was a cop, granted 13 years ago, I made 25k a year. Yes, I had pretty good benefits and they didn't cost that much... I needed them. I went to the hospital 3 times due to injuries sustained in the line of duty.

I'd tell you how many times I dealt with an armed suspect, but I lost count.

I'd tell you how many times I dealt with a suspect who wanted to fight, but I lost count in my rookie year. No tazers back then, btw.

Do you know how many times I was at-risk of exposure to HIV, hepatitis, or tuberculosis?? Lots. We had to take tests every 6 months to see if we'd contracted anything from any of the lovely people we dealt with.

Do you have any idea how many times some criminal cussed at blue streak at me, calling me and my Mama everything but a child-o-God.... and how hard it was sometimes to put my anger aside and act as a professional?

Never mind other unpleasantness like seeing dead children, dealing with people who had suffered things so terrible that they were weeping and wailing like their grief had no end... and then you go home and try to act like a normal human being with the wife and kids.

You have no clue.

Lots of small towns and communities have volunteer part-time officers. Go do that for a year. You won't get anything like the full dose that a full-time regular cop does, but you'll get the idea. You might find a slightly greater appreciation for those who do that job at the end of it.

That's assuming you could even hack it for a year, part-time, which I doubt. It takes a special personality type to cope with all that and stay sane... and you don't strike me as having the right stuff.
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Outside of large metro areas, most police officers are not subject to the travails you describe.
 
MaggieD said:
Showing concern about how our tax dollars are spent is not envy, nor is it baseless degrading of folks in these positions. What evidence have you presented that LEO are underpaid? Just your opinion, and you know what they say about those...
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Read between the lines, Maggie. Noodle isn't presenting concern about how our tax dollars are being spent. If he were, there are FAR more places to cut than salaries of professions that so strongly impact society. And the evidence that I have presented is represented in my explanations of the importance that these folks have to the foundation of society.
 
MaggieD said:
Oh, maaaan....and you got thanked twice. Noodle!!! I wuv you. ;-)



Showing concern about how our tax dollars are spent is not envy, nor is it baseless degrading of folks in these positions. What evidence have you presented that LEO are underpaid? Just your opinion, and you know what they say about those...



Outside of large metro areas, most police officers are not subject to the travails you describe.
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I didn't work in a large metro area, Maggie. I worked in a small city of 50,000, and the surrounding suburban and rural countryside. Want me to list some of the crimes I was involved with as an cop?
Murder
Child abuse, including what can only be called torture.
Rape, spouse abuse.
Rape of minor children.
Manslaughter
Armed Robbery, strongarm robbery, burglary, bank robbery, attempted murder, attempted rape.... the list is as long as the state Code of Laws.
 
HOw can we objectively tell if a certain job doesn't pay enough? NOt enough qualified people apply. Last time I checked (and I deal with cops constantly and have since a year after I left law school) applications for policie officers, Deputy sheriffs etc are always rather high. Cincinnati PD-one of the best in the country which patrols one of the most dangerous areas in the country-is never hurting for quality applicants. same with the Hamilton County Sheriff's department. I don't know what they start at but its no more than 50K IIRC.
 
TurtleDude said:
HOw can we objectively tell if a certain job doesn't pay enough? NOt enough qualified people apply. Last time I checked (and I deal with cops constantly and have since a year after I left law school) applications for policie officers, Deputy sheriffs etc are always rather high. Cincinnati PD-one of the best in the country which patrols one of the most dangerous areas in the country-is never hurting for quality applicants. same with the Hamilton County Sheriff's department. I don't know what they start at but its no more than 50K IIRC.
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Turtle, from what I've seen 90% of the applicants are unqualified from the get-go, and half the rest get weeded out along the way as unsuitable. There's not a shortage of people willing to do the job (even if 3/4ths of them probably don't really know what they're getting into), but there aren't all that many who are able to do the job well, and keep their sanity intact long-term.

Instead of pursuing this line of questioning, ask yourself what the value of having police in society is. I don't claim cops should be making 100k in a low-cost place like SC.... but I think they should be making more than the 20-30k so many are stuck with.
 
Goshin said:
Turtle, from what I've seen 90% of the applicants are unqualified from the get-go, and half the rest get weeded out along the way as unsuitable. There's not a shortage of people willing to do the job (even if 3/4ths of them probably don't really know what they're getting into), but there aren't all that many who are able to do the job well, and keep their sanity intact long-term.

Instead of pursuing this line of questioning, ask yourself what the value of having police in society is. I don't claim cops should be making 100k in a low-cost place like SC.... but I think they should be making more than the 20-30k so many are stuck with.
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I understand the value. When I was at my first law job, we represented the sheriff's department. The Sheriff-the infamous Simon Leis-joked that he wanted me to join his department. Mainly because his guys couldn't win the Ohio state police shooting championships and they didn't have anyone in the "Governors top 20" and he knew I could win that thing. I went to another job where I couldn't be an "Auxillary Deputy" but I remember him telling me he had lots of qualified people trying to get jobs there-often people with years of experience from smaller departments (Hamilton county has lots of small municipalities in it).

Value is not something that is subject to a rational discussion. but my test is rather objective. A job after all is nothing more than the way in which an organization obtains the commodity of labor. If you pay less than the going rate you don't get the quality or quantity you need.
 
TurtleDude said:
I understand the value. When I was at my first law job, we represented the sheriff's department. The Sheriff-the infamous Simon Leis-joked that he wanted me to join his department. Mainly because his guys couldn't win the Ohio state police shooting championships and they didn't have anyone in the "Governors top 20" and he knew I could win that thing. I went to another job where I couldn't be an "Auxillary Deputy" but I remember him telling me he had lots of qualified people trying to get jobs there-often people with years of experience from smaller departments (Hamilton county has lots of small municipalities in it).

Value is not something that is subject to a rational discussion. but my test is rather objective. A job after all is nothing more than the way in which an organization obtains the commodity of labor. If you pay less than the going rate you don't get the quality or quantity you need.
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Well, wouldn't you agree that upgrading the quality of the average cop-on-the-street would be a positive? More money would attract better candidates....
 
Goshin said:
Well, wouldn't you agree that upgrading the quality of the average cop-on-the-street would be a positive? More money would attract better candidates....
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I guess the point I make is that the ones I constantly deal with are pretty damn good. The ones in my city, the ones in the town where my son goes to school and the CPD are top flight. So as far as I know whatever they are paying them is getting really good people.
 
Okay. Maybe it isn't a problem in your area... but in some areas it is.
 
Goshin said:
Okay. Maybe it isn't a problem in your area... but in some areas it is.
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then in that area obviously the wages need to rise
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Ah... ex-fiance was a cop. NOW we know the source of Noodle's anger towards this profession. I think it's pretty well established that Noodle doesn't know what he's talking about on this issue. My mom was a teacher for 44 years... teaching in one of the worst inner city schools in one of the worst cities in the country. She would go YEARS without missing a day of work... and because of her teaching, some of these kids learned to read, to write, and learned the importance of an education. Education is the number one way that people... especially the poor, excel. So, yes, people like my mother have more impact on society than near any other profession. Growing up, I didn't live in a huge house, at one point, my mom drove the same car for 20 years, and though I didn't starve, none of us could have everything we wanted. There were definitely times when money was tight. With the importance level of the job, payment should absolutely have been better. So, no... teachers, cops, and firemen, because of their importance to the foundation of society, should be some of the best paid folks out there. Noodle has presented nothing to counter this... in fact, all he has presented is unsubstantiated anger. Maybe the EX in ex-fiance has something to do with that.
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You probably believe in Noah living 900+ years and the Ark while we are at it.
All you present is your opinion. I present life events and fact.
And Goshin.... I appreciate your side of the story. I respect that. I have had dissimilar experiences but I respect it and will take it into account. :2wave:
 
The Giant Noodle said:
You probably believe in Noah living 900+ years and the Ark while we are at it.
All you present is your opinion. I present life events and fact.
And Goshin.... I appreciate your side of the story. I respect that. I have had dissimilar experiences but I respect it and will take it into account. :2wave:
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No, you have presented zero facts. Just some personal indignation. I have provided you with plenty of information. You choose to ignore it.
 
Goshin said:
Well, wouldn't you agree that upgrading the quality of the average cop-on-the-street would be a positive? More money would attract better candidates....
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You do understand how public servants get paid with? Frankly, you would be surprised to learn that most taxpayers are not millionaires. And are living in debt that would bankrupt most private businesses. But somehow when they get the call to pay their property tax and other taxes. They are able to feed over 25% of the population. If you think policeman or soldiers are superman then you are simply not giving enough credit to the taxpayer who feeds you and your family members.
 
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