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Do You believe Noah?

Do you believe Noah?

  • Im Christian. I believe his age and the Ark

    Votes: 8 11.4%

  • Im Christian. I dont believe the Ark. I believe his age

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • Im Christian. I dont believe his age but I believe the Ark.

    Votes: 2 2.9%

  • Im Christian. I dont believe EITHER his age nor the Ark.

    Votes: 8 11.4%

  • Not Christian but I believe both the age and the Ark

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • Not Christian and its total and utter rubbish!

    Votes: 42 60.0%

  • Other / I dont Know

    Votes: 8 11.4%
  • Total voters
    70
JohnWOlin said:
Here's the thing. We have these pyramids in Egypt you might have read about them. Had you only read about them and never saw them do you think you would have believed in their existence that many years ago?

Does any one of you in here know exactly how they pyramids were built?
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I do know it was supposed to be that they were built within 28 years... a feat I've heard estimated at requiring a million men working around the clock, and that's not counting the time to carve the stones and get them in place.

A piece that I see as further proof of the flood is more with the sphinx, which is supposed to have been built around 5-6thousand years ago... the problem with that is that given the importance the builders apparently gave to astrology, and the relative allignments SHOULD have been built as a bull in that time... but if you go back to around 11000 years ago that's when, not only was egypt much closer to a rainforest climate, BUT because of the earths wobble the sphinx lined up properly with LEO at that time...

anyway...all we really know about egyptian culture and all that is mainly our 'best guesses'... but many of these questions we may never know because of egypts interests in maintaining these monuments as untouched as possible.
 
BmanMcfly said:
I do know it was supposed to be that they were built within 28 years... a feat I've heard estimated at requiring a million men working around the clock, and that's not counting the time to carve the stones and get them in place.

A piece that I see as further proof of the flood is more with the sphinx, which is supposed to have been built around 5-6thousand years ago... the problem with that is that given the importance the builders apparently gave to astrology, and the relative allignments SHOULD have been built as a bull in that time... but if you go back to around 11000 years ago that's when, not only was egypt much closer to a rainforest climate, BUT because of the earths wobble the sphinx lined up properly with LEO at that time...

anyway...all we really know about egyptian culture and all that is mainly our 'best guesses'... but many of these questions we may never know because of egypts interests in maintaining these monuments as untouched as possible.
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My point to that question was there are many mysteries and many things that seem impossible, but indeed do happen.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Here's the thing. We have these pyramids in Egypt you might have read about them. Had you only read about them and never saw them do you think you would have believed in their existence that many years ago?
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The pyramids also obey the laws of physics.

Does any one of you in here know exactly how they pyramids were built?
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Yes, yes actually we do.
 
Hoplite said:
The pyramids also obey the laws of physics.


Yes, yes actually we do.
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Actually no, no you don't there is only theories on how long, how many people, what tools were used, etc specifically for the great pyramids and considering how massive the stone was and how far up, there have been theories that go as far as to say they built it background out of the ground. This is why we call the great pyramid a "wonder of the world".
 
JohnWOlin said:
My point to that question was there are many mysteries and many things that seem impossible, but indeed do happen.
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Yes and there is always a logical explanation for them. A guy surviving a shark attack? It's not God's work. It can be explained by examining his interaction with the shark at the moment of attack. A guy builds a flying machine? It's not because God showed him how to. It's because he understood the physics for such a machine. Something seeming impossible is not the same as something being impossible. The logical explanation for the flood in the Bible is that there was indeed a flood affecting the Mediterranean region. The ark is clearly allegory to how the animals in the area survived. Religion is a way for people to explain things which seem impossible by constructing stories which are not possible.
 
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Hatuey said:
Yes and there is always a logical explanation for them. A guy surviving a shark attack? It's not God's work. It can be explained by examining his interaction with the shark at the moment of attack. A guy builds a flying machine? It's not because God showed him how to. It's because he understood the physics for such a machine. Something seeming impossible is not the same as something being impossible.
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What if the guy was covered in seals blood, was making the noise of a seal, and right at that moment prayed to God the shark didn't kill him? I don't like this notion that just because science has a place God has no place and vice versa, I believe it is very possible for God and science to co-exist, I have seen it happen before.
 
JohnWOlin said:
What if the guy was covered in seals blood, was making the noise of a seal, and right at that moment prayed to God the shark didn't kill him?
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Yes, and that would still be a result of how the actual attack went down. He could pray to a god all he wants but unless there is some evidence to support the notion that God saved him, there's absolutely no evidence that any god of any sort saved him. It's a matter of what is observable. Not what is presumed. I can presume that a leprechaun saved me if I was in the situation but unless I can prove a little green Irish man came out of thin air and did, I have no proof.

I don't like this notion that just because science has a place God has no place and vice versa, I believe it is very possible for God and science to co-exist, I have seen it happen before.
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Think of it this way. Somebody shoots at you. The bullet misses your head by a few inches. Was it God that pushed the bullet a few inches around your head? No. The other guy missed. It's as simple as that really.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Actually no, no you don't there is only theories on how long, how many people, what tools were used, etc specifically for the great pyramids and considering how massive the stone was and how far up, there have been theories that go as far as to say they built it background out of the ground. This is why we call the great pyramid a "wonder of the world".
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What exactly do you want to know about the construction of the pyramids?
 
I was tempted to put vote "I don't know", because that's the default position on all things we have no evidence for, but I gathered that what you called "Not Christian and it's total and utter rubbish" was just your way of saying "I don't believe it".

Either way, I don't believe it.
 
Divide Noah's age by 12 and you get 75. Which would have been extremely old for his times. They had a different calendar and figured their ages by the phases of the moon.

Historians have placed a great change in the local seas during Noah's time. All that rain caused a big mud slide that dumped much of the Caspian Sea (or some other local sea) into the area. Noah built the Ark and took upon it many animals. The problem comes from the fact that His flood did not cover the whole earth. just what people of that era considered to be the whole earth. Therefore we are not all descendants of Noah.

It's a nice Bible story. I try not to beat it up too much.
 
As with any such story, I would say that to reconcile the more fantastical elements with what we know today, all a Christian really has to do is believe that the ancient texts in the old testament were crafted according to what people could understand then, and the allegorical nature of such stories does not have to be taken literally in order to remain consistent with one's faith.
 
Hoplite said:
The Ark as a physical object would have been impossible. Physically, the thing couldnt have floated.
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whether you are a "believer" or not, it is just plain ignorant to claim that a physical object such as the ark would have been impossible. given the description in the bible, it would have been very possible to build such a vessel. and if a massive metal monstrosity like an aircraft carrier can float, surely a boat made out of gopher wood could have floated.
 
Hatuey said:
Yes and there is always a logical explanation for them. A guy surviving a shark attack? It's not God's work.
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We all know that aliens built the pyramids and that the flood drowned Atlantis, which was built utilizing the technology from alien species.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
When you think about it, it's not that nice of a story. After all, God was perfectly okay with drowning all the other humans in the flood, because they had become rebellious. Nice God.
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too bad we can't do that with all the scumbags, thugs and criminals running around today.
 
roughdraft274 said:
You want him to disprove that a man, that we essentially have no knowledge of outside of the bible, put two of every animal on a boat that we have no evidence ever existed outside of biblical claims? That's like asking you to disprove my invisible pink unicorn.
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If your unicorn is invisible, how can you tell if it is pink?
 
Hatuey said:
Think of it this way. Somebody shoots at you. The bullet misses your head by a few inches. Was it God that pushed the bullet a few inches around your head? No. The other guy missed. It's as simple as that really.
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Can you prove that?
 
Hatuey said:
... reading this post explains why you don't approve of global warming. You are simply unable to assess a situation and draw logical conclusions. In your mind, it is simply impossible to look at facts and let them guide your reasoning. You must be given a preconceived idea and use it as your own. I didn't look at Global Warming and say 'oh, yeah, it's man doing that'. I look at charts, I looked at evidence, proof from pertinent scientists and then I looked at the evidence from the other side and found it lacking. You are essentially complete opposite. You look at the flimsy evidence and hope that it does not contradict your established views. You are proof of what people have been stating about the religious all along. They are simply illogical and backwards people. You look at thunder and you are not able to think past the violence that it brings.

It doesn't even matter if you are religious or not. You're simply a person who is illogical.
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Incorrect ASSumption. I do not believe mankind affects global warming.

You seem to know a lot about me, for not knowing me at all. Interesting that you can make such bold ASSumptions about someone you do nto really know in any meaningful way.
 
roughdraft274 said:
I know it's pink through faith... and personal revalations with the pink unicorn.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass about this, honestly, but does it bother you, if you believe in the story completely, I'm not sure, that you essentially just agreed that you believe in something that's as provable as an invisible pink unicorn? I've always been curious about that.
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Doesn't bother me at all, and I know you're not being a smart ass...lol.

Belief is exactly that... belief. It neither needs nor wants proof.
 
Whovian said:
Can you prove that?
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Yes. Its called science and logic. If someone shoots at you and misses it is because they did not properly calculate where their gun should be aimed at in order to hit a target.
 
Hatuey said:
Yes. Its called science and logic. If someone shoots at you and misses it is because they did not properly calculate where their gun should be aimed at in order to hit a target.
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I was shot in Iraq. sniper from the top of a building. just before the bullet hit, I thought I saw something down an alley and raised my M4. Instead of the bullet hitting me in the neck,where it was headed, it hit the stock of my rifle and was deflected into my shoulder. Instead of being dead, I had a somewhat minor flesh wound.

can you, using science and logic, prove that my good fortune was merely a very lucky coincidence and not divine intervention?
 
OscarB63 said:
can you, using science and logic, prove that my good fortune was merely a very lucky coincidence and not divine intervention?
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Yes. How many people serving in Iraq/A-stan were not so fortunate?

AFGHANISTAN
U.S. troops killed 1,140
U.S. troops seriously injured 3,420
Other coalition troops killed 772
Other coalition troops seriously injured 2,316
Contractors killed 298
Contractors seriously injured 2,428

IRAQ
U.S. troops killed 4,414
U.S. troops seriously injured 31,882
Other coalition troops killed 318
Other coalition troops seriously injured 2,296
Contractors killed 933
Contractors seriously injured 10,569

You cannot choose to see what happened to you as divine providence without similarly seeing the injuries and deaths of 60,786 (not to mention hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans) as a willful choice by your god.

**** happens, Oscar. You were lucky. It was totally random. Other folks? Not so lucky. Did God WANT them to die or be crippled? You tell me.
 
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OscarB63 said:
I was shot in Iraq. sniper from the top of a building. just before the bullet hit, I thought I saw something down an alley and raised my M4. Instead of the bullet hitting me in the neck,where it was headed, it hit the stock of my rifle and was deflected into my shoulder. Instead of being dead, I had a somewhat minor flesh wound.

can you, using science and logic, prove that my good fortune was merely a very lucky coincidence and not divine intervention?
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What makes you more deserving of divine intervention, more than the guy who wasn't so lucky?
 
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