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Should the U.S. government shut down WikiLeaks?

Should the U.S. Government shut down WikiLeaks?

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MaggieD

MaggieD

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It is inconceivable to me that the United States government doesn't just shut down WikiLeaks wherever it pops up on the net when they are compromising the security of our country by posting secret government files.

When Top Secret documents are being posted for everyone to see, when lives are compromised, when our diplomatic hands are being tied, isn't this a massive threat to our national security?

It's one thing to leak corporate dirt...it's quite another to leak top secret government files.

Why isn't our government shutting down WikiLeaks?
 
MaggieD said:
It is inconceivable to me that the United States government doesn't just shut down WikiLeaks wherever it pops up on the net when they are compromising the security of our country by posting secret government files.

When Top Secret documents are being posted for everyone to see, when lives are compromised, when our diplomatic hands are being tied, isn't this a massive threat to our national security?

It's one thing to leak corporate dirt...it's quite another to leak top secret government files.

Why isn't our government shutting down WikiLeaks?
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They are not shutting them down for a few reasons.

1: The servers are more than likely not based in the US. Because of this the US cannot legally shut them down. Unless of course they have the hosting countries government do it for them. This is of course assuming that said government would do it.

2: Even if they were to shut wikileaks down all that they would have to do is switch to a different server. There are probably millions of servers available in the world so probably wouldn't do much good.

3: Wikileaks sends the info that they get to various news agencies in various countries. So it wouldn't do any good to shut them down for the simple fact that the news agencies would just be reporting on it anyways.

4: Even if all of the above were not true there is the problem of public perception. By shutting down wikileaks even more people would start to wonder just what it is that our government is hiding from its people. People would start asking harder questions and demanding answers.

The only thing that our government could do is to make their classified information security tougher and go after the people that leak the information to begin with. Taking out the secondary reporting agencies does nothing if you have not taking out the first cause of the leaks. Especially since those that are the first cause could just send the info to someone else.
 
Security training is a regular occurance for all Fed employees. Reduction in the amount of classified information would help, along with reduction in the number of copies of classified information. You can bet that SIPRNET will get a work over. OPSEC needs to be applied vigorously. Manning needs to be hung.
 
Ikari said:
Because we're not China.
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Well, maybe we are, 'cause we shut down child porn sites all the time. And now, we'll start shutting down those who make money by infringing on copyright laws.
 
Even if things aren't part of national security, it doesn't necessarily mean that they belong in the hands of the public. To tie a governing body's hands - any governing body - by disallowing it to have any clandestine activities is essentially opening it up to sabotage.

You should see how they address treason in the Constitution. Jefferson shot people at the White House for such a violation.
 
MaggieD said:
Well, maybe we are, 'cause we shut down child porn sites all the time. And now, we'll start shutting down those who make money by infringing on copyright laws.
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Depends on where those "child porn" sites are at. In America not so much. We try to get into the whole bittorrent thing and such too. Which overall is really stupid, wasteful, and time consuming. Probably shouldn't be to hardcore into busting college punks who d/l the new Metalica song. But whatever. As much as we can say about censorship on thise aspects, this is another level of information control. I'd rather we stay as far away as possible from information control.
 
MaggieD said:
It is inconceivable to me that the United States government doesn't just shut down WikiLeaks wherever it pops up on the net when they are compromising the security of our country by posting secret government files.

When Top Secret documents are being posted for everyone to see, when lives are compromised, when our diplomatic hands are being tied, isn't this a massive threat to our national security?

It's one thing to leak corporate dirt...it's quite another to leak top secret government files.

Why isn't our government shutting down WikiLeaks?
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because we are wimps. Wikileaks should be shut down, those who sold or gave away the secrets should be tried and shot, and assange should become despondent about the whole thing and commit suicide by shooting himself in the head...... twice.
 
American said:
Security training is a regular occurance for all Fed employees. Reduction in the amount of classified information would help, along with reduction in the number of copies of classified information. You can bet that SIPRNET will get a work over. OPSEC needs to be applied vigorously. Manning needs to be hung.
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yup; the downside is that it's going to make it alot harder for those of us who actually work on the damn thing to do research.

one guy, always screwing it up for everyone...
 
Ikari said:
Because we're not China.
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neither are we Tibet. when you threaten American lives through any means; that's one of the few true functions of the Federal Government - to hunt you down and destroy you.
 
cpwill said:
yup; the downside is that it's going to make it alot harder for those of us who actually work on the damn thing to do research.

one guy, always screwing it up for everyone...
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Well there's something to be said about slowing down the government's databasing ability.
 
cpwill said:
neither are we Tibet. when you threaten American lives through any means; that's one of the few true functions of the Federal Government - to hunt you down and destroy you.
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Tibet get's is ass kicked whenever China wants to roll up in there and kill some monks. Let's be Germany, ambitious and misunderstood. While I agree that direct threat to our sovereignty can elicit military response, I'm not sure what that has to do with the current discussion. There didn't yet seem anything released which would compromise a large portion of our national security. A bunch of **** with some dickhead king in SA, blah blah blah.
 
Ikari said:
Well there's something to be said about slowing down the government's databasing ability.
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we are hunting down terrorists and spying on potential threats; we are researching in order to provide better operational pictures to tactical, operational, and theater commanders so that they can make better informed decisions in a real-time environment. 'slowing down' and limiting research capability in a real-time environment can mean increased American casualties. that's what i'm regretting here: the necessary security precautions that we are going to have to take are going to cost lives. our lives our allies lives; Wikileaks kills coming and going. there is nothing "to be said" for it.
 
Ikari said:
Tibet get's is ass kicked whenever China wants to roll up in there and kill some monks. Let's be Germany, ambitious and misunderstood. While I agree that direct threat to our sovereignty can elicit military response, I'm not sure what that has to do with the current discussion. There didn't yet seem anything released which would compromise a large portion of our national security. A bunch of **** with some dickhead king in SA, blah blah blah.
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well you aren't stupid, so i'm going to assume you simply aren't thinking this through.

there are three components of Al Quada umbrella that are currently most active in seeking to attack western targets (none of this is classified, btw, this is all open-source, which is why i am assuming that you simply haven't done your homework): they are Al-Quada in Yemen, Al-Quada in Somalia (known as al-shabaab), and the Quetta-based central trunk.

NOW: of the nations that have had their ability to communicate secretly with us most hampered by wikileaks; easily the two top contenders are Saudi Arabia (as you mention) and Pakistan.



care to guess which two nations were supplying us the majority of our near-time information on those three operational groups? care to guess which two we need to have the best covert interaction with to head off attacks before they succeed? care to guess which two nations just learned that they shouldn't be talking to or working with us because we can't guarantee them basic security?



there are very, very good reasons why we would want to keep things like "we are trying to get Pakistan to let us remove some of their more vulnerable enriched uranium" secret; namely because if they are not secret, then we won't be able to do them, and then we have left holy hell within striking distance of psychopathic nihilists bent on chaos, destruction, and death.
 
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Wikileaks is a free agency. They can do what they want.

The U.S. needs to have tighter security and better personnel screening. People keep forgetting that the leaks are coming from the inside. Wikileaks isn't breaking into databases illegally, it is getting information willfully handed to it from people who do have access.

This incident should not increase the momentum toward giving the government more control to infringe upon the internet. The internet is not the issue here whatsoever.
 
cpwill said:
we are hunting down terrorists and spying on potential threats; we are researching in order to provide better operational pictures to tactical, operational, and theater commanders so that they can make better informed decisions in a real-time environment. 'slowing down' and limiting research capability in a real-time environment can mean increased American casualties. that's what i'm regretting here: the necessary security precautions that we are going to have to take are going to cost lives. our lives our allies lives; Wikileaks kills coming and going. there is nothing "to be said" for it.
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Spy spy spy. It is what it is. Slowing the government is rarely bad. We want to talk about our lives, well we ****ed that one up when we got involved in wars we had no place being involved in. You want to save American lives? Let's persue a non-aggressive, non-interventionist international policy and that will go well further than spying in keeping us safe. But here we have a bit of information and all of a sudden the establishment is ****ting itself. What's the problem. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. HAHAHAHAHAH. I always wanted to use that argument against the government. Regardless, there was nothing of immense importance released and if it's just going to take a few things on some internet page to bring major destruction to our military and our plans in the area.....maybe we didn't have anything planned out in the first place. And if that's the case, we shouldn't even be monkeying with the situation. Do or do not. I'm tending towards the latter.
 
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American said:
Security training is a regular occurance for all Fed employees. Reduction in the amount of classified information would help, along with reduction in the number of copies of classified information. You can bet that SIPRNET will get a work over. OPSEC needs to be applied vigorously. Manning needs to be hung.
Click to expand...

SIPRNet was the ONE secure communications method in the world. Impregnable. Incapable of being hacked. If you tapped lines the best you could get was noise. Point to point encryption. unfortunately...It always had one weak link...the people that worked on it.

Its been a while since I was in the 'underworld' but I can tell you without question that these breaches did not occur where we worked and God have mercy on the soul who may have left secure traffic on a monitor or printer. We had TPI in all instances when TS material was even potential.

Im afraid I have very little sympathy for whoever is responsible for leaking the data. I have the hammer and nails...and wouldnt hesitate to put them to use.
 
As for shutting down the website...eh...probably not. This is a problem that calls for the 3 dollar solution.
 
cpwill said:
care to guess which two nations were supplying us the majority of our near-time information on those three operational groups?
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The same ones who do the best to offer support and aid to terrorist organizations? Seriously, if Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are your Aces in the hole, I think it's best to cut our losses here. The only reason we're "friends" with SA is because of oil. Otherwise, it's an oppressive and dominating government that we'd never be friendly with. It's all BS in the end. There are much better ways to combat terrorism than having some piss ant King of some theocracy in the desert telling us how we have to use our military and against whom.
 
Ikari said:
Spy spy spy. It is what it is. Slowing the government is rarely bad. We want to talk about our lives, well we ****ed that one up when we got involved in wars we had no place being involved in. You want to save American lives? Let's persue a non-aggressive, non-interventionist international policy and that will go well further than spying in keeping us safe. But here we have a bit of information and all of a sudden the establishment is ****ting itself. What's the problem. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. HAHAHAHAHAH. I always wanted to use that argument against the government. Regardless, there was nothing of immense importance released and if it's just going to take a few things on some internet page to bring major destruction to our military and our plans in the area.....maybe we didn't have anything planned out in the first place. And if that's the case, we shouldn't even be monkeying with the situation. Do or do not. I'm tending towards the latter.
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ah. so your solution is irresponsibility. got it.

foolishness. this is one of the few things the national government is supposed to do. you might as well say that you wish the police in your neighborhood caught fewer rapists. then you'd be sticking it to the man, hey? :roll:
 
cpwill said:
ah. so your solution is irresponsibility. got it.

foolishness. this is one of the few things the national government is supposed to do. you might as well say that you wish the police in your neighborhood caught fewer rapists. then you'd be sticking it to the man, hey? :roll:
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Hello hyperbole, how have you been? Looks like you're going strong, good for you.

The solution isn't irresponsibility, it's quite the opposite actually. It's an account of what is an actual threat to us and proper reactions we can take through the government to lessen those actual threats. Shaking the hornets nest isn't the only way to get rid of bees.
 
Yes, the US government should shut it down. It's one thing to leak government documents in order to expose wrongdoing or potential wrongdoing. It's a completely different situation when they're releasing documents just for the hell of it. That has a chilling effect on candor and openness in the future.

One of the things I am most astounded by is how good the State Department looks. In 300,000 documents, there are only a few minor instances of government officials behaving badly (like trying to steal Ban Ki-Moon's credit card numbers and biometric data). For the most part, I am very impressed by how honestly and openly our government seems to have behaved.
 
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They should both shut it(and sites like it) down, and revamp their security clearance/access within the government. No reasonable government should allow classified documents to A) leak B) Get reported by someone when there is a leak.

For example, I held a top secret security clearance working with some electronics countermeasure gear and communications gear. Now I can't tell you who shot Kennedy, or anything cool. But if I was a source of a leak of IFF codes, frequencies, etc... and handed it to an outside agency to use, it would be the responsibility of my government to actively seek out and shut down the party that received the information, as well as find the leak and shut me down. Take out the supply and the demand.
 
Ikari said:
Hello hyperbole, how have you been?
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no hyperbole; your solution apparently involves us magically going backwards through time and altering past US policy to the point where we aren't where we are today. it's to live in a simplistic world where no other nation has to perform balancing acts, politics are never local, and the emphasis can safely be put on the perfect rather than being debased to merely the best the best possible (also known as the least bad). to call that approach irresponsibility isn't hyperbole, it's to avoid other terms like cognitive dissonance.

however, let's tackle this one at a time: Pakistan letting us remove fissile material from within striking range of Al-Quada: good or bad?
 
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