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Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery?

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Hatuey said:
I wouldn't. Jews in Europe did not lead a continual cycle of repression. European attitudes of Jews from the 19th to the 20th century were dependent on the state of the economy. Before that they had been dependent on the latest plague or hard times of Christians. Jews in Europe were likely to prosper economically and socially as long as nothing went really wrong. In America discrimination of blacks was simply a way of life. Originally there were no real racist beliefs behind white supremacy in America. How could slaves be blamed for the hard lives of white Americans if they possessed no political capital whatsoever? As blacks were granted citizenship they could now be blamed for bad crops, social problems, economic hard times etc.
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But the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th Centuries?
 
Hatuey said:
What does that have to do with anything?
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Well, you seem to be harping on the Black Man's inability to transcend the "repression" which still exists because of slavery. We now have an African-American president - I would say this is an example of transcending pretty well. Obviously the Italian-Americans, Latin-Americans, Asian-Americans, and Anglo-Saxxon women have not been able to "transcend" the "repression" as effectively. And none of these groups were enslaved by Americans. :shrug:

What you wrote isn't even remotely coherent. Did you read my post? At all? Please try it?
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You basically said the same thing in three paragraphs. Spare me the History lesson - I have a degree in that field. :roll:
 
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Blackdog said:
Good post. I actually agree.

What I am tired of is blacks blaming other for their failures. I am not saying all blacks do this, we don't. It's just that it seems the squeaky wheel is getting the oil.

Successful blacks who are hard working and have made a good life for themselves are overshadowed by the negative role models in black society. Young black men think it is cool to be a gang banger etc. They see G's making tons of money really easy and want to emulate that rather then someone like Colen Powell or President Obama who actually had to work hard.

I guess I am sick and fed up with the "white man is holding me down mantra." I see it far to often.
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You sound like Ron Christie. I saw a great interview with him on C-Span about his new book "Acting White." He's doing his best to help kids realize things like it's ok to be smart and to study and work hard. Not to be afraid of being told that they are acting white.
 
Barbbtx said:
You sound like Ron Christie. I saw a great interview with him on C-Span about his new book "Acting White." He's doing his best to help kids realize things like it's ok to be smart and to study and work hard. Not to be afraid of being told that they are acting white.
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That is a problem. It's not "cool" to be smart and do well in school. Black females on the other hand are excelling. This is solid proof that the problem is not outside sources, it is the black community itself.
 
Blackdog said:
Good post. I actually agree.

What I am tired of is blacks blaming other for their failures. I am not saying all blacks do this, we don't. It's just that it seems the squeaky wheel is getting the oil.

Successful blacks who are hard working and have made a good life for themselves are overshadowed by the negative role models in black society. Young black men think it is cool to be a gang banger etc. They see G's making tons of money really easy and want to emulate that rather then someone like Colen Powell or President Obama who actually had to work hard.

I guess I am sick and fed up with the "white man is holding me down mantra." I see it far to often.
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I am far more tired of people who say that there were no after effects to slavery than I am of people who continually blame the white man for their failures. If some 15 year old kid today told me the reason he can't get a job is because of systematic discrimination against blacks that lasted 400 years, he would be wrong. If I took a look at black communities in the South and made the claim that the reason most of them live in poverty is systematic discrimination over the course of centuries, I would be right.

The problem for people is in grasping that you can't explain why a single person is poor or rich based on what little you can gather about their family history. What can be explained is where the poverty in a specific group may come from. In American history, black poverty today is the consequence of 400 years of economic discrimination. It's not because blacks would rather be on welfare or because they'd rather be on the government's hand. It's simply because blacks in America have never had a culture of economic independence. We couldn't develop one. This was because we were told we weren't good enough to own businesses. We weren't good enough to get credit. We weren't good enough to get loans. It's a sad but it's a fact of life. Blacks have the 3rd oldest history in the Americas and yet we are extremely premature in socioeconomic terms.
 
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FluffyNinja said:
Well, you seem to be harping on the Black Man's inability to transcend the "repression" which still exists because of slavery.
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No. That's not what I'm saying. At all. Read my post again.


We now have an African-American president
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Yes and what? He's African American in the sense that his father is an actual African. You know, from Africa. He's not an 'African-American' like me or Blackdog. My ancestors were actual slaves and have a history in Africa. Obama's ancestors are from Africa. More importantly Kenya. A British colony with a completely different kind of discrimination and racial divisions.

- I would say this is an example of transcending pretty well.
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And I would say you obviously have no idea what it is you're talking about.

Obviously the Italian-Americans, Latin-Americans, Asian-Americans, and Anglo-Saxxon women have not been able to "transcend" the "repression" as effectively. And none of these groups were enslaved by Americans. :shrug:
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I talk about socioeconomic factors, the denial of wealth accumulation for over 400 years and you refute that by saying that because Obama, an 'African-American', is president, none of these things are facts? Are you even remotely serious?

You basically said the same thing in three paragraphs. Spare me the History lesson - I have a degree in that field. :roll:
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Do you? What year did you get your degree in? 1923? Because it seems you have trouble understanding simple concepts like 'wealth accumulation'.
 
Hatuey said:
If I took a look at black communities in the South and made the claim that the reason most of them live in poverty is systematic discrimination over the course of centuries, I would be right.
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You would be right IF it were only the Black communities who were experiencing poverty. In case you haven't noticed, white communities in the South are disproportionately impoverished as well. I teach at a public school in the South where 20% of the student body is Black and yet 70% of the students qualify for free or reduced lunches. :shrug:
 
Blackdog said:
Good post. I actually agree.

What I am tired of is blacks blaming other for their failures. I am not saying all blacks do this, we don't. It's just that it seems the squeaky wheel is getting the oil.

Successful blacks who are hard working and have made a good life for themselves are overshadowed by the negative role models in black society. Young black men think it is cool to be a gang banger etc. They see G's making tons of money really easy and want to emulate that rather then someone like Colen Powell or President Obama who actually had to work hard.

I guess I am sick and fed up with the "white man is holding me down mantra." I see it far to often.
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Here we have it folks: some black people are sick of the black people for blaming others for their failures.

In the realworld? Those same black folks that you are sick of for not being able to get over it and not being tow for the White Mans Way?

If you are sick about the white man is holding me down mantra? Do something rather than bashing some white chick on the net that understands your History even better than you.

I am sick of that kinda thinking AND GET WITH THE PROGRAM
 
Hatuey said:
Yes and what? He's African American in the sense that his father is an actual African. You know, from Africa. He's not an 'African-American' like me or Blackdog. My ancestors were actual slaves and have a history in Africa. Obama's ancestors are from Africa. More importantly Kenya. A British colony with a completely different kind of discrimination and racial divisions.
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He's still a Black man living in America. Ten years ago, how much of the public knew of Obama's African ancestry? Either he's Black or not....which is it? In the eyes of one who wishes to discriminate or repress do you think it matters where his lineage is from?
 
Hatuey said:
I am far more tired of people who say that there were no after effects to slavery than I am of people who continually blame the white man for their failures. If some 15 year old kid today told me the reason he can't get a job is because of systematic discrimination against blacks that lasted 400 years, he would be wrong. If I took a look at black communities in the South and made the claim that the reason most of them live in poverty is systematic discrimination over the course of centuries, I would be right.
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I agree, I am not talking about rural poverty for blacks in the deep south. I understand it is in part due to the effects of slavery and Jim Crow era laws. Those in urban settings in my opinion have no excuse anymore.

In fact I have never really lived in any area's like that or studied it. So I can't even give an opinion as well versed as yours is.

Hatuey said:
The problem for people is in grasping that you can't explain why a single person is poor or rich based on what little you can gather about their family history. What can be explained is where the poverty in a specific group may come from. In American history, black poverty today is the consequence of 400 years of economic discrimination. It's not because blacks would rather be on welfare or because they'd rather be on the government's hand.
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I have to disagree here. I lived in Ford Heights, Illinois, the poorest black community in the nation per capita at the time. Between the rampant drug use, gangs and places inside with names like "Little Vietnam" it was really bad. The thing that really killed me was to many of the people seemed proud of the "Wild West" reputation.

We offered (through Christian charity's and grants) college and high school GED programs free. The attitude was why? Be it "the government owes me" or "my life is worth more than a five dollar an hour job." Most did not want to work or go to school. Had nothing to do with slavery, discrimination or Jim Crow. It was just bad attitude.

Hatuey said:
It's simply because blacks in America have never had a culture of economic independence. We couldn't develop one. This was because we were told we weren't good enough to own businesses. We weren't good enough to get credit. We weren't good enough to get loans. It's a sad but it's a fact of life. Blacks have the 3rd oldest history in the Americas and yet we are extremely premature in socioeconomic terms.
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I agree this is a factor for some, but not most anymore.
 
Ok, I feel rather sick now. I was trying to find what foundation Ron Christie ( black conservative) was working with to help poor black kids succeed in life. I can't believe all the viciousness I came across EVERYWHERE when I searched his name. I mean really ugly things about this nice guy who has been successful. There were a couple posts of people standing up and fighting back for him, but not many. One was a white Christian Conservative. I took it that most the hate was coming from black democrats.
If this is the case, I feel even more for black conservatives than I did before. Man, I don't know how they stand it.
 
FluffyNinja said:
You would be right IF it were only the Black communities who were experiencing poverty. In case you haven't noticed, white communities in the South are disproportionately impoverished as well. I teach at a public school in the South where 20% of the student body is Black and yet 70% of the students qualify for free or reduced lunches. :shrug:
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No. I would be right because black and poverty in America have been synonymous for well over 400 years. Your 'degree' in history should have covered that at some point. Over the course of American history, it has been a given that the more blacks there are, the higher the poverty rate for the community as a whole. Sure, there have been some rich blacks but rich 'black communities'? They're as common as 'rich albino communities'. For whites the story is entirely different as being white in America did not mean you had been subjected to any systematic enforcement of poverty. When I say systematic enforcement of poverty I mean, the government and (X) populace colluding to reduce not only your earning power but your ability to create wealth. You were simply the product of your current environment. A white person in the U.S. could be born rich and die poor due to fluctuations in the economy. A black person in America was almost always sentenced to being born poor and dying poor.
 
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FluffyNinja said:
He's still a Black man living in America. Ten years ago, how much of the public knew of Obama's African ancestry? Either he's Black or not....which is it? In the eyes of one who wishes to discriminate or repress do you think it matters where his lineage is from?
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... Can you please reduce that to one coherent sentence?
 
Hatuey said:
I talk about socioeconomic factors, the denial of wealth accumulation for over 400 years and you refute that by saying that because Obama, an 'African-American', is president, none of these things are facts? Are you even remotely serious?
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So now we get to the gist of it. It's not really about "repression" after all then is it? It's about entitlement - feeling entitled to get what someone else has accumulated. I figured as much. You see, if "denial of wealth accumulation" is the "repression" of which you truly speak, then there are a whole slew of other groups (including post Civil War Southern Whites) who are being left out of the big picture as well.
 
Kali said:
Here we have it folks: some black people are sick of the black people for blaming others for their failures.

In the realworld? Those same black folks that you are sick of for not being able to get over it and not being tow for the White Mans Way? <--- Perfect example of the bad attitude that is infecting the black community. As if being successful is "the white mans way"

If you are sick about the white man is holding me down mantra? Do something rather than bashing some white chick on the net that understands your History even better than you.

I am sick of that kinda thinking AND GET WITH THE PROGRAM
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Attacking? :lol:

You think you know more about being black than a black man? Interesting.
 
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Barbbtx said:
Ok, I feel rather sick now. I was trying to find what foundation Ron Christie ( black conservative) was working with to help poor black kids succeed in life. I can't believe all the viciousness I came across EVERYWHERE when I searched his name. I mean really ugly things about this nice guy who has been successful. There were a couple posts of people standing up and fighting back for him, but not many. One was a white Christian Conservative. I took it that most the hate was coming from black democrats.
If this is the case, I feel even more for black conservatives than I did before. Man, I don't know how they stand it.
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Hell I could have told you that being a black conservative.

We just uncle Tom's dancing fo da white man.
 
*lost quote*

He is whatever he chooses to identify himself with.
He still bleeds red and pisses yellow.
 
Hatuey said:
For whites the story is entirely different as being white in America did not mean you had been subjected to any systematic enforcement of poverty. When I say systematic enforcement of poverty I mean, the government and (X) populace colluding to reduce not only your earning power but your ability to create wealth. You were simply the product of your current environment.
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Did you get your education from the Jeremiah Wright School of Tolerance or what? Are you implying that generations of whites have not been born into poverty as well? Really? Have you even visited the Deep South? I'm not ashamed to admit that I was the first male in my family to even get a high school diploma (much less a college degree) in over 100 years! I lived in a two-bedroom house with no air conditioning or hot water with three brothers, Mom, and Dad until I was 15 years old. Can you say the same? Don't talk to me about poverty man....you're barking up the wrong tree.

BTW where is the "systematic enforcement of poverty" today? I agree that it did exist and for a long, long while. It is a stain on our nation's history - but we must reach some point where we just have to let the whole "slavery is still causing repression" mantra go, don't we?
 
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FluffyNinja said:
Did you get your education from the Jeremiah Wright School of Tolerance or what?
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I'm sure getting a degree from his school would still provide me better reading skills than the ones you have exhibited throughout this discussion. I'll explain why in the next line.

Are you implying that generations of whites have not been born into poverty as well?
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Remember when I suggested you had a problem with reading? Up above is a better example of why. No, I am not implying that generations of whites have not been subject to generational poverty. I am claiming that this poverty did not come as a result of government collusion with any specific populace. I am claiming that as proven by the last 400 years of American history, being born white was not related to poverty in the same way being born black was. Whereas the wealth of a white person was not dependent on their skin color ( because the definition of 'white' has changed over and over again giving each generation of white immigrant a new change at economic prosperity), the amassing of wealth of wealth for blacks has been tied to their color from day 1.

Really? Have you even visited the Deep South?
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Yes. I have. And what?

I'm not ashamed to admit that I was the first male in my family to even get a high school diploma (much less a college degree) in over 100 years! I lived in a two-bedroom house with no air conditioning or hot water with three brothers, Mom, and Dad until I was 15 years old. Can you say the same? Don't talk to me about poverty man....you're barking up the wrong tree.
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That's great for you. However your family's poverty did not come as a result of systematic racism. Seriously, you supposedly have a degree in this stuff. Why are the words 'systematic poverty' such a big issue for you?
 
Blackdog said:
Hell I could have told you that being a black conservative.

We just uncle Tom's dancing fo da white man.
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Well why the hell didn't you tell me how bad it was on the internet before I went looking?:2mad:

I mean I knew it was problem, just never read garbage such as that. Black conservatives might even be treated worse than the Palins.:crazy3:
 
Barbbtx said:
Well why the hell didn't you tell me how bad it was on the internet before I went looking?:2mad:

I mean I knew it was problem, just never read garbage such as that. Black conservatives might even be treated worse than the Palins.:crazy3:
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Naaaa we snub our noses at Palins, lol.
 
Hatuey said:
That's great for you. However your family's poverty did not come as a result of systematic racism. Seriously, you supposedly have a degree in this stuff. Why are the words 'systematic poverty' such a big issue for you?
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"Systematic racism".....no. "Systematic discrimination"....perhaps. Since Reconstruction there has been quite a stigma placed on the "Southern White". Being white and from the "Deep South" opens one up to an entirely different world of discrimination and lost job opportunities.

My own state has lost out on huge corporate investments and potential contracts (that would have helped both Black and WHite citizens) because of such. I, personally have lost out on at least two Graduate Fellowship opportunities at "Northern" Universities and was told it was because it was believed my "background experiences may clash with the overall focus of the University's History Program" (in nice terms). Being labeled a "racist" simply because I happen to be white and happen to be from the South is not a great feeling. Hatuey, I guess this is just the best that I can do to explain my position - take from it what you will :shrug:
 
Blackdog said:
Good post. I actually agree.

What I am tired of is blacks blaming other for their failures. I am not saying all blacks do this, we don't. It's just that it seems the squeaky wheel is getting the oil.

Successful blacks who are hard working and have made a good life for themselves are overshadowed by the negative role models in black society. Young black men think it is cool to be a gang banger etc. They see G's making tons of money really easy and want to emulate that rather then someone like Colen Powell or President Obama who actually had to work hard.

I guess I am sick and fed up with the "white man is holding me down mantra." I see it far to often.
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I feel it is not that some young black men do not wish to inspire to be like Colen Powell or President Obama but that they feel hopeless and as if they never could reach that level.

I mean when you are living in the hood? Safety is the way of life and sadly? Sometimes the way to eat or have clothes is by resorting to thug life. Consider it like trying to survive in a jungle and doing what you gotta do.

It is not like a lot of these young black men feel it is cool but they feel it is needed in order to live. You see what I mean?

What we really need are more stronger black roles models going into these inner city schools and teaching these kids that there are other ways out but also showing them how with actual REAL help. Not just going in giving some lame ass speech then rolling out back to your normal life. HELP these kids. Make damn sure they are safe, fed, clothed, help with school and help em go onto college.

I do not care how much it cost it is needed.
 
Kali said:
I feel it is not that some young black men do not wish to inspire to be like Colen Powell or President Obama but that they feel hopeless and as if they never could reach that level.

I mean when you are living in the hood? Safety is the way of life and sadly? Sometimes the way to eat or have clothes is by resorting to thug life. Consider it like trying to survive in a jungle and doing what you gotta do.

It is not like a lot of these young black men feel it is cool but they feel it is needed in order to live. You see what I mean?
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I understand that.

Kali said:
What we really need are more stronger black roles models going into these inner city schools and teaching these kids that there are other ways out but also showing them how with actual REAL help. Not just going in giving some lame ass speech then rolling out back to your normal life. HELP these kids. Make damn sure they are safe, fed, clothed, help with school and help em go onto college.

I do not care how much it cost it is needed.
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We have tried that and it failed. Most (not all) wanted for what ever reason to take the easy road. It was disheartening, and I gave up at that point.

When I was homeless, we were standing in a food line for hot dogs. A young good looking black guy was in front of me near the piled hot dogs. He started stuffing his pockets with them. I said "why are you doing that? Their is plenty for everyone. This is about honor and integrity." He looked me straight in the eye and said "I have none of those" and that was that.

Take what you will, but I am done.
 
Well I was talking about a little more deeper than food lines and about programs in schools to help. But ok.

I am sure there are white folks that rob food lines too and that is pretty messed up. I am done too as said what I needed to say so far:)
 
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