• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Federation v Empire

In a war between the Federation and the Empire, who wins?


  • Total voters
    32
Useless. The Genesis Torpedo only neen be detonated 'near' the planet in question. The target planet won't even know it is there until it goes off.

"Near" = low orbit.

Orbital Difence Grids like those protecting the Cardasia are placed in an orbit approximately that of the moon, with a long range energy weapon increasing the field of fire.

The Genesis torpedo, while more practical than a DeathStar, would not give ST the edge.
 
"Near" = low orbit.

Orbital Difence Grids like those protecting the Cardasia are placed in an orbit approximately that of the moon, with a long range energy weapon increasing the field of fire.

The Genesis torpedo, while more practical than a DeathStar, would not give ST the edge.

Yes.... it would
 
"Near" = low orbit.
Um... no. Watch Khan. Not even close to low orbit.

Orbital Difence Grids like those protecting the Cardasia are placed in an orbit approximately that of the moon, with a long range energy weapon increasing the field of fire.
All of which will be inexorably swpt away by the Genesis Wave.
And even if so - you cannot shoot what you cannot see.

The Genesis torpedo, while more practical than a DeathStar, would not give ST the edge.
In terms of busting planets? Sure it would.
 
For planet killing are we counting the Sun Crusher from SW?
 
Um... no. Watch Khan. Not even close to low orbit.


All of which will be inexorably swpt away by the Genesis Wave.
And even if so - you cannot shoot what you cannot see.


In terms of busting planets? Sure it would.

Destroying planets isn't a war the federation can win. The federation has a few hundred, or a few thousand member systems at most. The empire has a million.
 
For planet killing are we counting the Sun Crusher from SW?

If we are, we also have to count the world devastators, the galaxy gun, the other two death stars, centerpoint station, the orbital nightcloak, the mass shadow generator, the star forge, eclipse-class and sovereign-class SSDs, the Eye of Palpatine, base delta zero, etc.

If you go into the expanded universe, star wars had a TON of planet busters.
 
Dear Lord, I'm starting to feel like the resident Star Wars nerd around here. Suffice it to say, the Empire vastly outstrips the Federation in terms of weapons technology and manpower, for reasons that I intricately detailed in the other thread, and that's comparing canon to canon. The Federation should crawl back through their sub-space anomalies if they know what's good for them. :2razz:
 
Destroying planets isn't a war the federation can win. The federation has a few hundred, or a few thousand member systems at most. The empire has a million.

You arent familiar with the Genesis Torpedo.

Then there is EVERY Federation ship that is FAR superior in EVERY way to the Empire ships. Then there are the war tactics.... Federation are FAR more professional and efficiant and effective. I respect what you 1st thought but I just dont agree.
 
2009-10-james-t-kirk.jpg


Star Trek wins.
 
You arent familiar with the Genesis Torpedo.

I haven't seen the movie for years, that's true. What about it makes you think that the federation can use it to destroy 1000 planets for every planet the empire destroys?

Then there is EVERY Federation ship that is FAR superior in EVERY way to the Empire ships. Then there are the war tactics.... Federation are FAR more professional and efficiant and effective. I respect what you 1st thought but I just dont agree.

You've provided absolutely NO proof of any of this. Power estimates are available for SW and ST weaponry. At the low end of the estimates, SW weapons are about as powerful as ST weapons. At the high end of the estimates, SW weapons are several thousand times more powerful. Depending on weapon power, SW shields are either roughly as powerful as ST shields, or vastly moreso. SW's largest ships are far larger than the largest federation ships, and carry more weapon emplacements. SW hyperdrives are far faster than ST warp drive. ST's only advantage is that they can fire from warp, and their ships are more maneuverable than SW's largest ships, due to being smaller. Other than that, the federation is outclassed in every way.
 
You've provided absolutely NO proof of any of this. Power estimates are available for SW and ST weaponry. At the low end of the estimates, SW weapons are about as powerful as ST weapons. At the high end of the estimates, SW weapons are several thousand times more powerful. Depending on weapon power, SW shields are either roughly as powerful as ST shields, or vastly moreso. SW's largest ships are far larger than the largest federation ships, and carry more weapon emplacements. SW hyperdrives are far faster than ST warp drive. ST's only advantage is that they can fire from warp, and their ships are more maneuverable than SW's largest ships, due to being smaller. Other than that, the federation is outclassed in every way.

I love the fact that the Trekkies here keep harping on this fact as their one sure talisman for victory. The truth is the Empire is more than adequately equipped to deal with this minor inconvenience.

Meet the Interdictor Class Star Destroyer:
Dominator.jpg


For as technically superior as they claim to be, I don't see any Trekkies really willing to provide the numbers supporting their case. ;) Like I said, canon to canon, the Federation would be decimated by the Empire.
 
I think a "few" is an understatement. 5% of our galaxy, or so.

Fed technology, I thnk, makes the difference.

number of entire planets blown up by the federation? as opposed to born? :roll:




the Empire also had no large enemies on its' borders; the Federation would have been turned on by the Cardassians, the Romulans, and probably the Klingons (though who knows, they may have loved the notion of going down against overwhelming odds).




Empire wins by so much it's almost embarrassing.
 
Last edited:
number of entire planets blown up by the federation? as opposed to born? :roll:




the Empire also had no large enemies on its' borders; the Federation would have been turned on by the Cardassians, the Romulans, and probably the Klingons (though who knows, they may have loved the notion of going down against overwhelming odds).




Empire wins by so much it's almost embarrassing.


please, anyone seriously believe that Luke Skywalker wouldn't join the side of the Federation? with both Vader and the Emperor dead and the sole remaining "Jedi" on the side of the Feds it would be game over for the Empire. The Empire would be too busy with internal power struggles to put up a united front against the Federation.
 
please, anyone seriously believe that Luke Skywalker wouldn't join the side of the Federation?

i have no problem believing that Luke Skywalker would join the Federation; I just also don't buy into the myth that a single individual is going to be able to outweigh fleets of star destroyers in a galactic battle.

with both Vader and the Emperor dead and the sole remaining "Jedi" on the side of the Feds it would be game over for the Empire.

if you are going to go post-tense then you have to figure out how you are going to stand up against an Admiral Thrawn utilizing the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassions, and the Jem'Hadar. furthermore, the number of "Jedia" on the side of the "Rebellion" is: Luke, semi-but-not-really Leia, and a couple of ghosts. there are still Sith-trained Jedi out there in the outskirts of the Empire.

The Empire would be too busy with internal power struggles to put up a united front against the Federation.

the Empire devolved decision making authority onto the regional governors to avoid just that issue; it is the earlier Republic and the Federation which will have problems from internal dissent, not the Empire.


putting the Empire up against the Federation is like having Bear Bryant up against Mike Shula.
 
Last edited:
please, anyone seriously believe that Luke Skywalker wouldn't join the side of the Federation? with both Vader and the Emperor dead and the sole remaining "Jedi" on the side of the Feds it would be game over for the Empire. The Empire would be too busy with internal power struggles to put up a united front against the Federation.

You're imposing a time frame on the Empire when they were at their weakest, just after the Battle of Endor. It's not a fair comparison to intentionally handicap the side you're against, even though the numbers would still be in favor of the Empire. With both the Federation and the Empire at their full capacity and strength, however, the Federation gets wiped from the galaxy post-haste.
 
Last edited:
You're imposing a time frame on the Empire when they were at their weakest, just after the Battle of Endor. It's not a fair comparison to intentionally handicap the side you're against, even though the numbers would still be in favor of the Empire. With both the Federation and the Empire at their full capacity and strength, however, the Federation gets wiped from the galaxy post-haste.

I think the Organians would simply send the Empire packing. game over. nothing in SW canon can hold a candle to the abilitites of the Organians. a single individual capable of projecting itself, simultaneously, to the homeworld of every Fed and Klingon planet and the bridge of every fed and klingon starship and causing all weapons to be non-functional.
 
I think the Organians would simply send the Empire packing. game over. nothing in SW canon can hold a candle to the abilitites of the Organians. a single individual capable of projecting itself, simultaneously, to the homeworld of every Fed and Klingon planet and the bridge of every fed and klingon starship and causing all weapons to be non-functional.

The Organians were never officially part of the Federation, so they don't belong in a Federation v. Empire debate, however, for the sake of debunking your argument, the Organians

…are not humanoids. They are incorporeal energy creatures with no precise physical location in the universe.
And

A race of beings who had evolved to a point of being pure conceptual beings, essence of thought with no corporeal bodies.
Now…


To my knowledge, the Organians never conducted any sort of war like interactions in the ST Universe, but were a peaceful race. On the contrasting side, the Sith have no qualms about killing anyone in their way. After the Organians have disabled all the conventional weaponry of the Federation and Empire, how do you prevent the Sith from destroying the now helpless Federation crews at will?

The Organians are not your saviors; they are, at best, bystanders to the slaughter of your Federation. ;)

So, in conclusion, if you'd like to debate this on technical merits, rather than invoking mysterious powers, we can get back on topic here.
 
The Organians were never officially part of the Federation, so they don't belong in a Federation v. Empire debate, however, for the sake of debunking your argument, the Organians


And


Now…


To my knowledge, the Organians never conducted any sort of war like interactions in the ST Universe, but were a peaceful race. On the contrasting side, the Sith have no qualms about killing anyone in their way. After the Organians have disabled all the conventional weaponry of the Federation and Empire, how do you prevent the Sith from destroying the now helpless Federation crews at will?

The Organians are not your saviors; they are, at best, bystanders to the slaughter of your Federation. ;)

So, in conclusion, if you'd like to debate this on technical merits, rather than invoking mysterious powers, we can get back on topic here.


right peaceful race who refused to allow anyone to fight...hence the use of the phrase "game over" no one wins because the Organians wouldn't let them fight.

but if you want technical merits... you are going to have to revise all the SW shield and weapons outputs down...since as they currently stand they are greater than the energy their reactors can produce. :shrug:
 
Destroying planets isn't a war the federation can win. The federation has a few hundred, or a few thousand member systems at most. The empire has a million.
The Feds dont have to crush every planet, just the important ones.
Given the effort needed to do so - virtually none- there's no reason they cannot succeed at such an effort.
 
You've provided absolutely NO proof of any of this. Power estimates are available for SW and ST weaponry...
Maybe I missed your response - what have you seen on-screen that supports the claim that a single shot from the turret of a transport has a 200GT yield?

SW's largest ships are far larger than the largest federation ships, and carry more weapon emplacements
Yeah, but that's meaningless if the the Imperial ships are the only ones getting hit.

ST's only advantage is that they can fire from warp...
That a rather impressive dismissal of an exceptional detail.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom