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Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

Did all the great ideas of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries need government?

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Awesome! said:
My advice would be to read Biden's book: Promises to Keep. Amazon is selling for 2.60 from the original 25.95 retail. Such a small price to learn about the man, the essence that makes Joe Biden, the intellectual, the storyteller, the American hero and brilliant government mind...Our country owe's a debt to this legend...
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What exactly has he done that makes him an 'American Hero'? Specifically. No generalities please.

As for 'brilliant government mind', this is the man that wanted to split Iraq into three different parts, remember? Brilliant is pretty much the opposite of Joe Biden.
 
Whovian said:
that's just the tip of the iceberg. There are hundreds of inventions, and dozens of concepts that did not require the government in any way, shape or form. Biden, as always, is an idiot.

EDIT: My personal favorite is the transistor, developed in 1947 by Bell Labs... NO gov. assistance whatsoever.
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The technicians there recieved "government" educations.
The government police protected the place.
The government military kept the Japanese and Germans and English away..
Why do people "think" that government is bad, that it is unnecessary.
What is "government" anyway ?
Think.
 
We, as a nation, will be so much better off when government and enterprise really work together. When private enterprise owns up to its weakness - greed, and embraces regulation rather than fighting it.
 
earthworm said:
The technicians there recieved "government" educations.
The government police protected the place.
The government military kept the Japanese and Germans and English away..
Why do people "think" that government is bad, that it is unnecessary.
What is "government" anyway ?
Think.
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That's not what Biden said government helped with though. Go back to the OP and read his statement again. The government protects the shores of this country so does that mean the government has incentivized everything that has ever been thought of or ever invention or innovation made in this country? Of course not.

And when exactly did the government protect the Murray Hill NJ location? Got a link for that?

And a link for the government "kept the Japanese and Germans and English away.." away from what? And how did they "keep them away" exactly?


And a correction for you. John Bardeen from Bell Labs who innovated the transistor went to a public schools and I can find no reference that he was admitted using government money nor that he received a "government" education. Nor do I see any "government" education applied to Walter Houser Brattain, who with Bardeen worked at Bell Labs on the transistor.

Got a link to support your "government" education?

I'm thinking you didn't research anything you wrote before you wrote it. I'll be very happy to read all the supporting documentation for your (mis)statements.
 
Whovian said:
As for 'brilliant government mind', this is the man that wanted to split Iraq into three different parts, remember? Brilliant is pretty much the opposite of Joe Biden.
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Not that I think Joe Biden is a genius, but what exactly is wrong with wanting to split Iraq into three different parts?
 
pbrauer said:
The Internet
Space Travel, Satellites
Eisenhower Highway system
Atomic Energy
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"Government" scientists did discover/invent the atomic bomb and our government certainly accelerated "Space Travel".
Private enterprise for the former would have taken far longer and cost more, of this I am sure.
Joe Biden is correct, the Libertarians are wrong.
 
earthworm said:
"Government" scientists did discover/invent the atomic bomb and our government certainly accelerated "Space Travel".
Private enterprise for the former would have taken far longer and cost more, of this I am sure.
Joe Biden is correct, the Libertarians are wrong.
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Biden said "every single" invention required government. He was wrong if even one invention did not need government.

The "Libertarians" are correct because we can count. :roll:
 
Coronado said:
Biden said "every single" invention required government. He was wrong if even one invention did not need government.

The "Libertarians" are correct because we can count. :roll:
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If you go by his literal words, yes.
If you go by what he obviously meant, no.
 
earthworm said:
The technicians there recieved "government" educations.
The government police protected the place.
The government military kept the Japanese and Germans and English away..
Why do people "think" that government is bad, that it is unnecessary.
What is "government" anyway ?
Think.
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Other than 'your opinion', where is your evidence the technicians behind 'every major idea in the last... blah blah blah' got government educations? Please provide a link to your source, or cite a source that we can verify.

The police work for the locality, not the federal government.

You're really reaching here.

Please show me where I said 'government is bad'. I dare you.

You must know, you just talked about how they provided technicians with jobs, police and military for their protection, etc.

Come on... think.
 
Kandahar said:
If you go by his literal words, yes.
If you go by what he obviously meant, no.
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He meant something other than what he said?

You're reaching.
 
I'm still hoping earthworm comes back and posts up some links so I can read up on all the government did at Murray Hill Bell Labs.
 
Gilette Mach 3 did not require government. All it needed was some good marketing and some guys with 5 o'clock shadow.
 
phattonez said:
Gilette Mach 3 did not require government. All it needed was some good marketing and some guys with 5 o'clock shadow.
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Same with Fender Guitars, or Gibson even. In the Government's past, they disliked rock & roll even though they did allow Elvis movies to be made when he acted like he was in the Navy.
 
Coronado said:
He meant something other than what he said?

You're reaching.
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No, YOU are the one parsing his offhand choice of words, like it's a contract. :roll:
Why don't you instead talk about his general point that government plays an important role in technology, instead of doing the lawyerly crap.
 
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Kandahar said:
No, YOU are the one parsing his words claiming that the words "every single" are important, like it's a contract. :roll:
Why don't you instead talk about his point that government plays an important role in technology, instead of doing the lawyerly crap.
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:lamo

I guess words and phrases just mean whatever you want them to mean. That's pretty convenient. Totally insane, but convenient.

There's not much more to say to you if you aren't willing to recognize the agreed-upon definitions of words. :shrug:
 
PORN!

The government did nothing to promote or help this industry, and look at it! A massive, throbbing industry that people can really get behind! Hundred of millions in revenue, tens of thousands of jobs, and all that tax revenue for the government.
 
Kandahar said:
No, YOU are the one parsing his offhand choice of words, like it's a contract. :roll:
Why don't you instead talk about his general point that government plays an important role in technology, instead of doing the lawyerly crap.
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So, by 'every single', he really only meant 'some or a few'?
 
Whovian said:
So, by 'every single', he really only meant 'some or a few'?
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Actually, it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
 
Whovian said:
PORN!

The government did nothing to promote or help this industry, and look at it! A massive, throbbing industry that people can really get behind! Hundred of millions in revenue, tens of thousands of jobs, and all that tax revenue for the government.
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As industries go, you do need to realize that this one has only grown in spurts.
 
Whovian said:
So, by 'every single', he really only meant 'some or a few'?
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Well I posted my list of what I consider the most important inventions of modern history. Government certainly played a role in all of THOSE. I'm sure you can find some example of an Acme Backscratcher or something where the government's role was negligible, but you'd just be splitting hairs. If you're going to bitch about Biden's exact choice of words instead of actually discussing his point, it's most likely because you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation.

ZOMG HE SAID EVERY SINGLE GREAT IDEA, INSTEAD OF MOST GREAT IDEAS!!!! IMPEACH HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111 :roll:
 
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Kandahar said:
Well I posted my list of what I consider the most important inventions of modern history. Government certainly played a role in all of THOSE. I'm sure you can find some example of an Acme Backscratcher or something where the government's role was negligible, but you'd just be splitting hairs. If you're going to bitch about Biden's exact choice of words instead of actually discussing his point, it's most likely because you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation. ;)
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That was almost funny.

You're so completely partisan that you're trying to convince us all that Biden's words have a different meaning for him than they do for everyone else.

Private enterprise was the driving force behind most of the greatest achievements and discoveries and inventions in the last few centuries. I'm sure you can find some example of an Acme Teleprompter or something where the government's role was important, but you'd just be splitting hairs. If you're going to bitch about how Biden's exact choice of words doesn't matter because that wasn't what he really meant instead of actually discussing reality, it's most likely because you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation. (no smiley)
 
Whovian said:
That was almost funny.

You're so completely partisan that you're trying to convince us all that Biden's words have a different meaning for him than they do for everyone else.
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Nope, I'm non-partisan enough that I'd rather discuss whether or not government plays a significant role in technological advances, which is actually an interesting topic, unlike Joe Biden's exact choice of words. Honestly, don't you have anything better to do?

Whovian said:
Private enterprise was the driving force behind most of the greatest achievements and discoveries and inventions in the last few centuries.
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Certainly no argument there. That doesn't mean that government played no important role.

Whovian said:
I'm sure you can find some example of an Acme Teleprompter or something where the government's role was important, but you'd just be splitting hairs.
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I posted what I considered the most important modern inventions, and highlighted the significant role government played in each of them. Since you must have missed them, here they are again:

1. Automobiles (interstate highway system)
2. Airplanes (airports)
3. The internet (DARPA)
4. Television (FCC assigning broadcast channels)
5. Telephone (phone lines infrastructure - joint public/private effort)
6. Electricity (power grid)
7. Plumbing (public sanitation/sewer systems)
8. Antibiotics (large public health campaigns)
9. High-yield crops (public R&D)

Whovian said:
If you're going to bitch about how Biden's exact choice of words doesn't matter because that wasn't what he really meant instead of actually discussing reality, it's most likely because you have nothing of substance to add to the conversation. (no smiley)
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Aaaaaaaand you're STILL bitching about Joe Biden, instead of talking about government's role in technology. Yet *I* am the partisan. :roll:
 
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Kandahar said:
Well, some of them definitely needed government. I think if you look at the most important inventions, a good many of them had at least SOME significant government involvement...whether in infrastructure, R&D, coordination, or just good old fashioned regulation. What would you consider the most important inventions of the modern world? I think that any such list would include the following technologies, all of which had a significant role for the government:

Automobiles (interstate highway system), airplanes (airports), the internet (DARPA), television (FCC assigning broadcast channels), telephone (phone lines), electricity (power grid), plumbing (public sanitation/sewer systems), antibiotics (large public health campaigns), and high-yield crops (public R&D).

I'm sure there are some examples that didn't require much government involvement, but most of the inventions that I'd classify as among the most important did.
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You need to remove telephone from your list. The government had nothing to do with it's creation, nor with the telephone system itself (lines, switchers, etc...) That was all BELL
The Evolution of the Telephone System
Bell established commercial telephone service in 1877. By June 30, 1887 there were 230 phones installed; in July, there
were 750; and in August there were 1,300. (SIT-23) Within ten years, 167,000 phones would create a disorganized maze of overhead wires in cities across the northeast. The early adopters of the telephone were mostly businessmen who could afford to pay for the rather expensive service.
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Airports needs to come off too. The first commercial airports were privately built, owned and operated.

The electric 'grid' was private enterprise too...
History of electric power transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The idea of investing in a central plant and a network to deliver energy produced to customers who pay a recurring fee for service was familiar business model for investors: it was identical to the lucrative gaslight business, or the hydraulic and pneumatic power transmission systems. The only difference was the stuff being delivered was electricity not gas, and the "pipes" doing the delivering were flexible. The California Electric Company (now PG&E) in San Francisco in 1879 used two direct current generators from Charles Brush's company to supply multiple customers with power for their arc lights. This San Francisco system was the first case of a utility selling electricity from a central plant to multiple customers via transmission lines.
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Certainly, the government helped in some areas, some more than others, but to say 'EVERY' is simply incorrect. To defend the error out of partisanship, is immature.
 
to further clarify for those who appear ot to comprehend...

The government played an important role in SOME areas of important discoveries, inventions and ideas over the last few hundred years. No one here has said otherwise.

What we HAVE said, is that PRIVATE ENTERPRISE has been and always will be the driving force behind MOST important discoveries, inventions and ideas. Only a few here seem to think otherwise.
 
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