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Mandatory military service?

Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?

  • Total voters
    88
Goshin said:
I respect that. I respect it a whole lot more than the idea of forcing people into the military when there is no national-security need to do so, simply someone's notion of what is "fair" or "this'll be good for those young punks!". :roll:
As someone else said, I'd support 6 or 8 weeks of mandatory militia training (infantry basic) at age 18. That is far less onerous and burdensome, and the "unorganized militia", in the words of the Founders, "consists now of the whole of the people."
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Would you support making military service of some kind (or something related to government service) a prerequisite for voting?
 
Model T Spruce said:
You're a ****ing idiot.

Typical asshat donkey.

Wealth redistro. should be outlawed and myriad problems are solved.
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you plan on being around here more than say a few more minutes? chill man. Repeter might be wrong but repeter is almost always polite/.
 
repeter said:
Would you support making military service of some kind (or something related to government service) a prerequisite for voting?
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Sounds like Starship Troopers--SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP. Being a net tax payer is plenty service IMHO
 
TurtleDude said:
LOL its Bron

SYL dude:mrgreen:
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Turtle, you continue to prove you are the smartest person here, especially with a certain other poster now banned.

Peace, and keep on fightin' the fight.
 
TurtleDude said:
Sounds like Starship Troopers--SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP. Being a net tax payer is plenty service IMHO
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Well we very well can't just let all the ignorant people keep voting can we? They're the ones who keep the politicians in office for decades, and they're the ones who haphazardly vote for the stupidest reasons you can imagine.
 
MaggieD said:
Do you actually think that a volunteer army wants to be in the heat of battle? The best they can say is, "Well, I asked for it." And, in fact, most of them didn't ask for it. IMO volunteer forces enlist for very practical reasons. The very least of which is to lay down cover fire for you.

There's a fairness about a draft. And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men, combat aside.
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my nephew was ROTC. HE went to AIT because he wanted combat. Then to the Rangers because he wanted to be in the thick of things in the big offense in Tikrit and Falluja (sp). Now he's in the SF. I met some of his buddies. these guys wanted action

but I think the trade school enlistees were pissed when we went to war.
 
repeter said:
Well we very well can't just let all the ignorant people keep voting can we? They're the ones who keep the politicians in office for decades, and they're the ones who haphazardly vote for the stupidest reasons you can imagine.
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Ever see that great Wizard of Id Cartoon (can't find it right now) where the wizard is asked what happens when more stupid than smart people vote

Then the democrats win was the response from the wizard.

I believe that those who pay more taxes ought to have more say but ignorance is a tough call-I know some very well educated people who vote for the most idiotic reasons
 
Model T Spruce said:
Turtle, you continue to prove you are the smartest person here, especially with a certain other poster now banned.

Peace, and keep on fightin' the fight.
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subtlety is an art
 
TurtleDude said:
Ever see that great Wizard of Id Cartoon (can't find it right now) where the wizard is asked what happens when more stupid than smart people vote

Then the democrats win was the response from the wizard.

I believe that those who pay more taxes ought to have more say but ignorance is a tough call-I know some very well educated people who vote for the most idiotic reasons
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Then we should at least make sure that the voters know the issues a given politician stands for, by way of test. I just don't see how our country can become better if everyone can vote.
 
Hell no! My home country, (not New Zealand) had the draft for guys, and I had to pretend I had mental problems to get away from the draft. I'm sure it could be nice to get some military training, but the social environment in the military, at least in my country is not nice. I would have been miserable. Also most of the training is up north where it's really cold and dark in the winter. And I would lose one year of university.

It will never be fair, because it's not fair that someone who has bad sight will get away from the military while someone who doesn't have to spend one year up north. And I believe the environment will be much better if the soldiers actually want to be there.
 
megaprogman said:
Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?
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Would I support a mandatory military service? Absolutely not.

Would I support a mandatory military or civil service? Absolutely.

I don't think military service is the only way a person can serve their country. I also don't think everybody is cut out for military service. And I would bet that those who would agree with that the most are those who have volunteered for it.
 
repeter said:
Would you support making military service of some kind (or something related to government service) a prerequisite for voting?
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I've thought about it. It has a certain appeal.

Sometimes I think that franchise should not be a birthright. People take it too lightly. If you had to EARN it somehow, pay in blood or sweat, you'd treasure it and likely treat it better.

But honestly I don't know. There are a lot of ramifications to that. It seems to be a substantial departure from the American philosophy of government, that all those who are governed should have a say in the formation of the government.

You can put me down as "intrested but with serious reservations" on that idea.
 
Darn you Mega! I wanted to vote "no", but you knew I could not resist voting "Rootebega"!! :lamo
 
samsmart said:
Would I support a mandatory military service? Absolutely not.

Would I support a mandatory military or civil service? Absolutely.

I don't think military service is the only way a person can serve their country. I also don't think everybody is cut out for military service. And I would bet that those who would agree with that the most are those who have volunteered for it.
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Thank you, I was trying to think of the term civil service.
 
Goshin said:
I've thought about it. It has a certain appeal.

Sometimes I think that franchise should not be a birthright. People take it too lightly. If you had to EARN it somehow, pay in blood or sweat, you'd treasure it and likely treat it better.

But honestly I don't know. There are a lot of ramifications to that. It seems to be a substantial departure from the American philosophy of government, that all those who are governed should have a say in the formation of the government.

You can put me down as "intrested but with serious reservations" on that idea.
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Yeah, its a huge change from traditions, but honestly, look at where things are going, and why they're going that way. The American people are becoming less and less interested in politics, and they are (from what I can tell) becoming more and more stupid. And as with all future generations, when you have something from the time you were born, you start to take it for granted. As you said, we should make it something you have to earn to use. Its like with children, if you give them the world on a platter, they become used to it.
 
repeter said:
Yeah, its a huge change from traditions, but honestly, look at where things are going, and why they're going that way. The American people are becoming less and less interested in politics, and they are (from what I can tell) becoming more and more stupid. And as with all future generations, when you have something from the time you were born, you start to take it for granted. As you said, we should make it something you have to earn to use. Its like with children, if you give them the world on a platter, they become used to it.
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Dude, are you ****ing kidding me? With the rise of the internet, there hasn't been this amount of spreading of political thought since the printing press became widely available and allowed pamphlets to be spread like wildfire. Do you know when that was? Just before the American Revolution.

People are more involved and interested in politics now than ever before. So much so that, if you ask me, people are starting to think that too many things are a political issue. Everybody thinks that by getting their party elected they can sign pieces of paper that will change human behavior and natural laws. Everything is politicized now. But the truth of it is that people are people, not issues. If you ask me, the polarization and punditry for profit of politics is dehumanizing us.

I could only wish people were less involved in politics. Then people wouldn't make a political issue out of everything.
 
samsmart said:
Dude, are you ****ing kidding me? With the rise of the internet, there hasn't been this amount of spreading of political thought since the printing press became widely available and allowed pamphlets to be spread like wildfire. Do you know when that was? Just before the American Revolution.

People are more involved and interested in politics now than ever before. So much so that, if you ask me, people are starting to think that too many things are a political issue. Everybody thinks that by getting their party elected they can sign pieces of paper that will change human behavior and natural laws. Everything is politicized now. But the truth of it is that people are people, not issues. If you ask me, the polarization and punditry for profit of politics is dehumanizing us.

I could only wish people were less involved in politics. Then people wouldn't make a political issue out of everything.
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Gosh I feel stupid now, I didn't realize the statistics in voter turnout.

Let me put it this way, the wrong people (the people who don't know crap about the issues) are voting. Civil service, or military service should be requirements to vote. Like a poll tax that anyone can pay for when they turn 18. The only think required is will, and motivation.
 
If everyone has to do an equal term of involuntary servitude then everyone should pay an equal amount of taxes. If you expect some to pay more than others, than those who don't pay as much ought to give more in terms of service.

after all, righ now more than a third of my time in my office is servitude for the government. yet many do almost no work that is taken in taxes for the state
 
TurtleDude said:
If everyone has to do an equal term of involuntary servitude then everyone should pay an equal amount of taxes. If you expect some to pay more than others, than those who don't pay as much ought to give more in terms of service.
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Yeah, because it's not like there are a disproportionate number of poor people serving the military... :roll:
 
megaprogman said:
Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?
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Neither. I want our military to remain voluntary. I don't know about you, but I were of enlistment age and the country went to war, I wouldn't want some pissed off draftee in a foxhole, with a gun, next to me.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Yeah, because it's not like there are a disproportionate number of poor people serving the military... :roll:
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actually its mainly middle class people. the real poor kids rarely can meet the standards. THere have been more than a couple dozen KIA's from the cincinnati area. one, the highest ranking KIA (a colonel whose helicopter was set up for an attack by a spy) was the cousin of one of my best friends. Another, a marine, was the cousin of girls I coached. but the bottom line, none of them came from the poorest areas of the greater cincinnati area-several came from top rated public schools in rather prosperous areas. now maybe the poor kids from cincinnati who served aren't getting killed but I pay close attention to those from my area who are killed (the most famous-other than that colonel was Matt Maupin, the guy who was MIA for several years) and its not the poor kids who are dying
 
TurtleDude said:
If everyone has to do an equal term of involuntary servitude then everyone should pay an equal amount of taxes. If you expect some to pay more than others, than those who don't pay as much ought to give more in terms of service.

after all, righ now more than a third of my time in my office is servitude for the government. yet many do almost no work that is taken in taxes for the state
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I've disputed with you on this before, TD. Income taxes are only one form of tax; there remain property taxes, SS/medicare taxes, sales tax, and increased costs to various goods due to corporate/value-added taxes, including on such essentials as food and fuel (those necessities usually take up more of the budget of lower-income persons than higher-income persons, btw).

Practically everyone pays taxes. Only a relative few actually recieve more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Focusing on income taxes alone does not give a complete picture of how things work.

The problem I have with flat tax, is you can't come up with a flat tax rate that would support current government spending that wouldn't drive the less-prosperous 1/3rd of the population into bankruptcy. Even if you cut the current budget by an enormous amount, say 30% (and that is probably unrealistic anytime soon), you'd still end up with a flat tax rate that a quarter of the population could not pay, not without losing their home or having nothing to eat but boiled rat.

Pardon me, too much thread drift probably...
 
Goshin said:
I've disputed with you on this before, TD. Income taxes are only one form of tax; there remain property taxes, SS/medicare taxes, sales tax, and increased costs to various goods due to corporate/value-added taxes, including on such essentials as food and fuel (those necessities usually take up more of the budget of lower-income persons than higher-income persons, btw).

Practically everyone pays taxes. Only a relative few actually recieve more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Focusing on income taxes alone does not give a complete picture of how things work.

The problem I have with flat tax, is you can't come up with a flat tax rate that would support current government spending that wouldn't drive the less-prosperous 1/3rd of the population into bankruptcy. Even if you cut the current budget by an enormous amount, say 30% (and that is probably unrealistic anytime soon), you'd still end up with a flat tax rate that a quarter of the population could not pay, not without losing their home or having nothing to eat but boiled rat.

Pardon me, too much thread drift probably...
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do you admit or deny that the current system promotes a scenario where politicians buy the votes of the many by promising them that "others" will bear the burden of paying for the increased spending?

and its income taxes that serve as the basis of most of the political discussion.

right now its a house of cards that is gonna collapse and the only way to stop that is to make increased government spending painful for everyone, not just the 2% who cannot outvote the people who continue to enable expansion of the government
 
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