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Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

Does water have a taste?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 68.0%

  • No

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • Total voters
    25
rivrrat said:
Atheism has no belief. It's a lack of belief.
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Again religion is not necessarily about belief in a supreme being.

There is no "set of beliefs" or "practices"
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You believe in evolution, the big bang theory and that God does does not exist?
 
jamesrage said:
Again religion is not necessarily about belief in a supreme being.


You believe in evolution, the big bang theory and that God does does not exist?
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Atheists lack the belief that a personal god exists. They may or may not believe in evolution, or the big bang. Even if they did both, that's hardly a "set of beliefs or practices" There are as many atheist beliefs as there are atheists.
 
jamesrage said:
You believe in evolution, the big bang theory and that God does does not exist?
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Belief in evolution is not required to be an athiest, nor is it unique to athiests. Its completely possible for religious people to believe in evolution.

Similarly the big bang theory isn't necessarily required to be believed for someone to be athiest.

Athiesm in and of itself doesn't pass the muster for a "religion"
 
Zyphlin said:
So you're saying that athiesm is the denial of a "god" not necessarily of the divine?
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Everyone is atheist regarding *some* deity. I just haven't found any evidence for the existance of any deity, fairies, or leprechauns.


So you have belief that unless something can be proven it doesn't exist.
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Dear ****ing god, no. That's completely illogical. I can't even believe that you even typed those words and attributed something so completely nonsensical to me. As if I think I am so powerful that my mere belief in something causes it to exist? As if.

I simply do not believe without some evidence as a basis. Whether or not it exists is a different matter altogether and completely independent of my belief one way or another.

Or more, that everything that exists can be proven to.
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Not necessarily, no. Only that I cannot make myself believe in something without some evidence as a basis for that belief.


Oh look, I'm amazed, a self proclaimed athiest immedietely reverting to condenscention. I'm shocked, shocked I say.

Wow, didn't realize all religions believed that a "man in the sky" is "orchestrating our lives".
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I wasn't aware there were any that didn't. Except for some Buddhists. Even they believe in a "power" that does the orchestrating, they just don't consider it a divine entity.

natrual suggests something that follows natural laws. Something that violates natural laws would then be unnatural or supernatural.
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No, we consider things unnatural when we cannot explain them with our current knowledge. I argue that EVERYTHING is natural. Just because we lack the means to explain it doesn't make it "supernatural".

Yay, more athiest sarcasm and belittling. I love that all the traits that I hate in evangelical religious people are right there in the militant athiests as well...amaizng that.
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Actually, it was a reference to Die Hard with a Vengeance. But whatever. (I actually got it a bit wrong anyway, since it's actually "shove a lighting bolt up your ass") But hey, typical "believer" who lacks a sense of humor.

Oh look! More generalizations!


And that in and of itself is belief. To believe that something does not exist is a belief.
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But I don't believe they do not exist.

You're not saying "I don't think gods exist because they've not been proven to me" you're going "Gods don't exist".
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No, I'm not saying the latter at all. I'm saying I don't believe in any gods because I see no evidence of them. In no way am I saying "gods don't exist". Simply, "I lack belief in gods, goddesses, fairies, and leprechauns". And I will contiue to lack belief in all of those things (and more, like unicorns, dragons, and spaghetti monsters) until I am given evidence of their existence.



Agnostics simply lack belief in whether or not its there, they hold no belief in either way. Athiests BELIEVE that they do not exist.
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Wrong, we simply do not believe they do.
 
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jamesrage said:
Again religion is not necessarily about belief in a supreme being.


You believe in evolution, the big bang theory and that God does does not exist?
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I see evidence of evolution. That it happens is indisputable.
The big bang theory... meh.
I lack belief in any god or goddess. They may well exist, but until they have given me a reason to believe, I will continue to lack belief.
 
Zyphlin said:
Possibly because so many athiests go "There is no god" not "There may be a god/something divine, but until I have proof I don't think there is".
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The reason atheists don't say things like ""There may be a god/something divine, but until I have proof I don't think there is," is because that is what agnostics say/believe.

Atheist =/= Agnostic.

Zyphlin said:
I've rarely seen any athiest who routinely acknowledges that there's the potential that such exists but we don't have proof yet and thus that's why they don't think there is.
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The reason you haven't come across atheists who "routinely acknowledge that there's the potential that such exists but we don't have proof yet and thus that's why they don't think there is," is because that is what agnostics say/believe.

Atheist =/= Agnostic.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
SO you believe there to be no god.


thanks


/thread
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No, I lack belief in any god, goddess, fairy, bigfoots (or are they bigfeet? :shock:), santas, leprechauns, little green men, titans, creatures of the abyss, vampires, werewolves.

They all may well exist but I see no evidence of them so I simply do not believe.
 
Glinda said:
The reason atheists don't say things like ""There may be a god/something divine, but until I have proof I don't think there is," is because that is what agnostics say/believe.

Atheist =/= Agnostic.
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Thank you for proving my point Glinda. That's what I've been arguing the whole time. Athiests have belief, Agnostics are the closest to "no belief".

The reason you haven't come across atheists who "routinely acknowledge that there's the potential that such exists but we don't have proof yet and thus that's why they don't think there is," is because that is what agnostics say/believe.
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Thanks, you're making my argument for me.
 
rivrrat said:
No, I lack belief in any god, goddess, fairy, bigfoots (or are they bigfeet? :shock:), santas, leprechauns, little green men, titans, creatures of the abyss, vampires, werewolves.

They all may well exist but I see no evidence of them so I simply do not believe.
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I think he was talking about Glinda, not you. She basically took my post that was trying to clarify if you were saying unquestionably that gods don't exist or stating that you have never seen proof that gods exist and thus until such time that you don't think there are any but don't discount the possability, and proceeded to tell me what I was arguing originally. IE, that the former is athiesm and the later is agnostic.
 
rivrrat said:
No, I lack belief in any god, goddess, fairy, bigfoots (or are they bigfeet? :shock:), santas, leprechauns, little green men, titans, creatures of the abyss, vampires, werewolves.

They all may well exist but I see no evidence of them so I simply do not believe.
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I believe that there is no bigfoot. :thumbs:
 
I believe there may be a bigfoot, but unlikely. I believe that there are not fairies or lepruchans. I believe there are not or is not a "god/gods" as man terms it.

If I believe that the Redskins are the best team in football that is a beleif. If I don't believe the Redskins are the best team in football that is still a belief. It would only be if I don't have a feeling any particular way with regards to the Redskins and theirs tature in the NFL and acknowledge they could possibly be the best or not could it be said I don't have any belief about them.

NOT believing something is a belief. Its not the absence of belief. If someone reaches a conclussion about something that in and of itself IS a belief. You can't have a conclussion and not have a belief.
 
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Zyphlin said:
Possibly because so many athiests go "There is no god" not "There may be a god/something divine, but until I have proof I don't think there is".

I've rarely seen any athiest who routinely acknowledges that there's the potential that such exists but we don't have proof yet and thus that's why they don't think there is. Its almost always simply stated as an absolute, unquestionable fact, usually with uppity sarcastic condenscending tones and insults.
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The absolutes generally come into play when referencing a specific "version" or claimed knowledge of a God.

There is a slim possibility that there is a god (or higher power), there is a virtually non existent possibility that any of the thousands of human conceptualizations all claiming their own version and specific knowledge of this higher power as a entity is correct.
 
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Zyphlin said:
I think he was talking about Glinda, not you. She basically took my post that was trying to clarify if you were saying unquestionably that gods don't exist or stating that you have never seen proof that gods exist and thus until such time that you don't think there are any but don't discount the possability, and proceeded to tell me what I was arguing originally. IE, that the former is athiesm and the later is agnostic.
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Wrong. It's not one or the other. But, if you're going to go all black and white, agnostics, by common defintion, determine it to be unknowable. Whereas atheists certainly do think it's knowable.

At best, many of us are agnostic atheists. /shrug.

Doesn't really matter to me. There are MANY flavors of atheists. But none of them constitute a religion.
 
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Zyphlin said:
Thank you for proving my point Glinda. That's what I've been arguing the whole time. Athiests have belief, Agnostics are the closest to "no belief".
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But agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive, there are agnostic atheists, and there are gnostic atheists.
 
Zyphlin said:
I believe there may be a bigfoot, but unlikely. I believe that there are not fairies or lepruchans. I believe there are not or is not a "god/gods" as man terms it.

If I believe that the Redskins are the best team in football that is a beleif. If I don't believe the Redskins are the best team in football that is still a belief. It would only be if I don't have a feeling any particular way with regards to the Redskins and theirs tature in the NFL and acknowledge they could possibly be the best or not could it be said I don't have any belief about them.

NOT believing something is a belief. Its not the absence of belief. If someone reaches a conclussion about something that in and of itself IS a belief. You can't have a conclussion and not have a belief.
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Yes, for many of us, it IS an absence of belief.

I do not say, "I BELIEVE there are no gods"
I say, "I DO NOT BELIEVE there are gods".
I LACK belief. Lacking belief cannot logically be the same as having belief. If I don't have a belief, that is not a belief.
 
marduc said:
But agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive, there are agnostic atheists, and there are gnostic atheists.
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However if someone believes that its impossible to prove that a god/the divine does or doesn't exist, but they are athiests so they state that no god/the divine exists, then that most assuredly IS a belief. Its accepting that something that is improvable and unknownable as truth.

And if one believes that it is possible to know it, but claims that without knowing it that it doesnt' exist, they're still presenting a belief as they're stating something that is not proven as if its fact.

Even if they're NOT claiming it as fact, but simply claiming it as their own belief....THAT'S BELIEF. Its no less belief than someone saying "I don't know for a fact that God exists, but I believe it does". Going "I don't know for a fact that a god exists, but I believe it doesn't" isn't any different. You're coming to a conclussion of what you think about something, that is a belief. It is a thought you hold as true. That is a belief.

A belief does not equal a religion.
 
rivrrat said:
Yes, for many of us, it IS an absence of belief.

I do not say, "I BELIEVE there are no gods"
I say, "I DO NOT BELIEVE there are gods".
I LACK belief. Lacking belief cannot logically be the same as having belief. If I don't have a belief, that is not a belief.
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No, you're lacking belief in there being gods, but you're having faith in that there are no gods.

Truly lacking beleif in gods would be stating I do not know if there is a god or not. Or there may be gods or there may not be. THAT is truly lacking belief.

Saying "I lack belief in a god" is exactly the same as saing "I believe there is not a god", you're just switching how you say it, but those are two equal statements.

You are forming a conclusion about an idea, that is a belief.
 
So... in china and north korea where they have no religion and have hardly heard of god to the point it doesnt qualify as a iota of consideration for their entire lifes. You imply that a thought occupying some sort of positive space in their minds exists that the purposefully choose to not believe in a concept theyve never been introduced to.

Seriously, foundations of logic here... not subscribing to your fantasy of some ungraspable thing in the sky makes us some sort of faithful believers. Talk about religionists grasping and the dying end of the argument. You're just trying to even the ground.
 
Zyphlin said:
No, you're lacking belief in there being gods, but you're having faith in that there are no gods.
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I have faith in no such thing. I simply don't give a ****.

Truly lacking beleif in gods would be stating I do not know if there is a god or not. Or there may be gods or there may not be. THAT is truly lacking belief.
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I don't know. And because of that, I lack belief. I don't know that there aren't unicorns or fairies, or creatures of the abyss either. And, I lack belief in them as well.

Saying "I lack belief in a god" is exactly the same as saing "I believe there is not a god", you're just switching how you say it, but those are two equal statements.
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Absolutely not. I'm not "switching how I say" anything. I'm stating the truth with regard to MY beliefs and lack thereof. I DO NOT BELIEVE in any gods. I would never say that I "believe there are no gods".

You are forming a conclusion about an idea, that is a belief.
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No, I'm forming no conclusion. Only stating a lack of a belief.
 
Zyphlin said:
And if one believes that it is possible to know it, but claims that without knowing it that it doesnt' exist,
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NO ONE is saying that. Who says that? Only completely delusional narcissists who think they're all powerful.
 
rivrrat said:
I have faith in no such thing. I simply don't give a ****.
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No, you DO give a ****.

If you didn't give a **** you wouldn't make a claim for you personally either way about gods.

But you DO make a claim as to what is true in regards to your views on it personally at this time, which means you DO give a ****, and is a belief.

I don't know. And because of that, I lack belief. I don't know that there aren't unicorns or fairies, or creatures of the abyss either. And, I lack belief in them as well.
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And that is a belief.

Absolutely not. I'm not "switching how I say" anything. I'm stating the truth with regard to MY beliefs and lack thereof. I DO NOT BELIEVE in any gods. I would never say that I "believe there are no gods".
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Yes, you are. I'm not suggesting intentionally. I'm saying that stating "I lack the belief in [x]" is the same as saying "I believe in [y]" where [x]=something and [y]=not something. Simply because you say it one way more often because it makes your mind feel better in convincing yourself that its not a belief doesn't mean its not one. There is an issue, whether or not gods exist, and you have a view on it one way or another, that they don't.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but explain to me what the difference between not believing there are gods and believing there are no gods?

No, I'm forming no conclusion. Only stating a lack of a belief.
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But you are, you ARE forming an opinion. You're not going "I don't know if there is gods or not" you're going "I don't believe that there are gods"
 
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