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Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

  • Total voters
    49
EnigmaO01 said:
You're blaming the civil war on Lincoln? Are you serious?
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South Carolina seceded on December 20, 1860, Major Anderson invaded South Carolina on December 26, 1860 when he moved his troops from Fort Moultrie on Sullivan's Island to Ft. Sumter in the center of Charleston Harbor. Lincoln sent the Star of the West in January of 1861 to resupply Ft. Sumter and invaded South Carolina's waters. On April 12, a fleet of US Navy ships again invaded South Carolina's waters and attempted to enter the harbor. Lincoln refused to meet with southern diplomats for a peaceful resolution in the months leading up to the defense of Charleston Harbor by the South Carolina State Guard. Lincoln stated in his first inaugural address that if he couldn't collect the taxes, under the Morrell Tariff, from southern ports he would invade and go to war.

In doing this there needs to be no bloodshed or violence, and there shall be none unless it be forced upon the national authority. The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere.
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EnigmaO01 said:
Yeah he hated non-whites so much he freed the slaves.
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What slaves did he free since the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in areas not under Union control? Proper credit for freeing the slaves goes to Andrew Johnson the seventeenth President of the United States since the 14th Amendment was ratified during his term.

Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, (except the Parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the City of New Orleans) Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth[)], and which excepted parts, are for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.
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If you notice in the above list that there are exceptions to the proclamation. Those areas, at the time of the proclamation, were under Union control. He freed not a single slave in areas where he could. Seward and others commented that the proclamation was a symbolic act since Lincoln lacked the authority to issue such a thing under the Constitution. Lincoln only issued the proclamation to keep England, France, and other European countries from recognizing the Confederacy.

EnigmaO01 said:
Much in revisionist history to suit your prejudices?
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What revisionism is it when the facts bear out what I said is true? Revisionism of Lincoln and his war began after he was assassinated. He was hated by everyone when he was alive.
 
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Kandahar said:
It astounds me that we still honor this horrible, horrible man with a holiday. He was a greedy, racist murderer. Why not commemorate someone or something worthwhile instead?
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Columbus lived an interesting life. He screwed a lot of people over and was screwed over several times after his first voyage. I can't say he was a noble or decent man, but he did set the stage of the creation of the US.
 
megaprogman said:
Our holiday should last as long as their expidition.
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That's a good idea. At least the government wouldn't be able to do anything since it would be shut down in observance of the holiday. :D
 
megaprogman said:
Columbus lived an interesting life. He screwed a lot of people over and was screwed over several times after his first voyage. I can't say he was a noble or decent man, but he did set the stage of the creation of the US.
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Wow a liberal who gets it and can understands that it's about a single event in time.
 
Kandahar said:
Isn't there a middle ground between giving the land back to the descendants of the people who were here 500 years ago, and honoring a genocidal tyrant with a holiday?
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YES - that would be 250 years ago in 1760, about the time Robert Rodgers wiped out St.Francis in what is now South of the St.Lawrence,Quebec. Really took a big notch out of a lot of Long term Enemy combatant Redskins called the Abanaki who never adjusted well to the New England British but took aome pittences from the French, and a lot of scalps from Frontier people. The Rangers burned up all those scalps.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Besides, Colombus didn't kill millions of his own people. He killed millions of aliens. I don't expect Indians to celebrate Colombus Day.
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How is that relevant? He wasn't American. He was an Italian, who was funded by the Spanish, who landed in Cuba.
 
Ned Racine said:
YES - that would be 250 years ago in 1760, about the time Robert Rodgers wiped out St.Francis in what is now South of the St.Lawrence,Quebec. Really took a big notch out of a lot of Long term Enemy combatant Redskins called the Abanaki who never adjusted well to the New England British but took aome pittences from the French, and a lot of scalps from Frontier people. The Rangers burned up all those scalps.
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:confused:
What in God's name are you talking about
 
Councilman said:
Wow a liberal who gets it and can understands that it's about a single event in time.
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Its both actually. We are right to both judge the past by our current stands and their own.
 
The_Patriot said:
South Carolina seceded on December 20, 1860, Major Anderson invaded South Carolina on December 26, 1860 when he moved his troops from Fort Moultrie on Sullivan's Island to Ft. Sumter in the center of Charleston Harbor. Lincoln sent the Star of the West in January of 1861 to resupply Ft. Sumter and invaded South Carolina's waters. On April 12, a fleet of US Navy ships again invaded South Carolina's waters and attempted to enter the harbor. Lincoln refused to meet with southern diplomats for a peaceful resolution in the months leading up to the defense of Charleston Harbor by the South Carolina State Guard. Lincoln stated in his first inaugural address that if he couldn't collect the taxes, under the Morrell Tariff, from southern ports he would invade and go to war.
South Carolina is a state, NOT an independent nation.




What slaves did he free since the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in areas not under Union control? Proper credit for freeing the slaves goes to Andrew Johnson the seventeenth President of the United States since the 14th Amendment was ratified during his term. No President does anything, they are not dictators; Congress is the acting body, forget that Lincoln was assassinated.
We are high school , movies , TV,and Glen Beck educated , its quite pathetic!


If you notice in the above list that there are exceptions to the proclamation. Those areas, at the time of the proclamation, were under Union control. He freed not a single slave in areas where he could. Seward and others commented that the proclamation was a symbolic act since Lincoln lacked the authority to issue such a thing under the Constitution. Lincoln only issued the proclamation to keep England, France, and other European countries from recognizing the Confederacy.



What revisionism is it when the facts bear out what I said is true? Revisionism of Lincoln and his war began after he was assassinated. He was hated by everyone when he was alive.
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Very similar to what President Obama puts up with.
And, I'd love to see some honesty and open-ness.
I believe that it was some character(Brown?) who tried to free the slaves, we know how that went!
 
Kandahar said:
:confused:
What in God's name are you talking about
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Some of those indigenous "People of Color" that White Liberals can't see as other Flawed potentially corrupt Human beings. This bunch was particularly Nasty.
 
earthworm said:
South Carolina is a state, NOT an independent nation.
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Treaty of Paris of 1783 and the legal definition of State says differently.

Treaty of Paris 1783 said:
His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and independent states, that he treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.
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To make it clear on the definition of viz. means to wit. The treaty was signed thirteen times, one for each of the colonies listed, since the Congress of the Confederation lacked any diplomatic authority.

I give you the legal definition of state from Bouvier's 1856 Law Dictionary.

The several states composing the United States are sovereign and independent, in all things not surrendered to the national government by the constitution, and are considered, on general principles, by each other as foreign states, yet their mutual relations are rather those of domestic independence, than of foreign alienation.
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You were saying about South Carolina not being an indepedent nation?

earthworm said:
No President does anything, they are not dictators; Congress is the acting body, forget that Lincoln was assassinated.
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Lincoln declared war without consent of Congress. He imprisoned the entire Maryland state legislature without cause to prevent them from voting on secession. He had attempted to arrest without warrant Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Roger Taney. He shut down and imprisoned anyone in the north that was critical of his policies without warrant or cause. He issued proclamations that were laws of the land without consulting Congress. Lincoln did a lot of things that was the definition of a dictatorship. All of this is a matter of public record and documented. I highly recommend the book American Bastille by John A. Marshall written in 1881.

earthworm said:
We are high school , movies , TV,and Glen Beck educated , its quite pathetic!

Very similar to what President Obama puts up with.
And, I'd love to see some honesty and open-ness.
I believe that it was some character(Brown?) who tried to free the slaves, we know how that went!
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Strawman argument so try again.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
Most holidays, besides Christmas and Thanksgiving, are only important if I get a paid day off of work.
That's really where it ends.

We don't really celebrate, any of that stuff, in my house.
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So how would one go about celebrating Columbus Day, anyway? Maybe we could symbolically enslave a Native American in his own home for a day.
 
Coronado said:
So how would one go about celebrating Columbus Day, anyway? Maybe we could symbolically enslave a Native American in his own home for a day.
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maybe we should all go and gamble at the rez casinos and give the injuns a bit of reparations. :lamo
 
OscarB63 said:
maybe we should all go and gamble at the rez casinos and give the injuns a bit of reparations. :lamo
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I always thought that was a funny trade-off.

"Sorry about killing 90% of your people, destroying your culture and stealing your land. Tell ya what, how about if we let you run all the casinoes? That ought to about even things out, right?"
 
How many actually cerbrate the man? I would be surprised if anyone actually did. I understand liking the day off, the few who actually get one, but couldn't we pick someone we actually care about? Just asking . . . .
 
Boo Radley said:
How many actually cerbrate the man? I would be surprised if anyone actually did. I understand liking the day off, the few who actually get one, but couldn't we pick someone we actually care about? Just asking . . . .
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Good point. To take it a bit further, how many really understand memorial day, labor day, veterns day or for that matter any federal holiday? IMO, it as you said it has become a "day off".
 
Kandahar said:
Christopher Columbus never even landed in this country. He landed in Cuba, the Bahamas, and Hispaniola. The first European to land in North America (excluding the Vikings) was John Cabot, in 1497. In any case, they were all interchangeable. If Columbus hadn't landed in the West Indies, some other European explorer certainly would have within the next decade.

There were people who were much more important to the United States than Christopher Columbus. We could have Einstein Day or Tesla Day instead.
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Or maybe France day? For, you know, giving you your country? XD
 
Le Marteau said:
Or maybe France day? For, you know, giving you your country? XD
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If that was to be the case then Portugal, Spain, and France should have US Day for us helping them to win their war with England that was going on at the same time. ;)
 
The_Patriot said:
If that was to be the case then Portugal, Spain, and France should have US Day for us helping them to win their war with England that was going on at the same time. ;)
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I would politely suggest to you to note the vast gap between France's contribution to the establishment of the United States, and the United States's contribution to the success of the French Revolution and the repulsion of English attacks therein. Though, I understand your point, and I agree -- though FOX News for whatever reason chooses to disregard three hundred years of history supporting this, it's still true that you'd be hard pressed to find two countries more similar in ideology and realpolitik goals than the French Republic and the US. They were born together, and for most of their history they've fought and died together. The current anti-French sentiment in the US and anti-US sentiment in France is nothing but rivalry from two of the most similar nations in the world.
 
Le Marteau said:
I would politely suggest to you to note the vast gap between France's contribution to the establishment of the United States, and the United States's contribution to the success of the French Revolution and the repulsion of English attacks therein. Though, I understand your point, and I agree -- though FOX News for whatever reason chooses to disregard three hundred years of history supporting this, it's still true that you'd be hard pressed to find two countries more similar in ideology and realpolitik goals than the French Republic and the US. They were born together, and for most of their history they've fought and died together. The current anti-French sentiment in the US and anti-US sentiment in France is nothing but rivalry from two of the most similar nations in the world.
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I would say that the contribution of the US was just as much as Spain, Portugal, and France since the American Revolution siphoned large amounts of men, material, and naval resources for 7 years.
 
The_Patriot said:
I would say that the contribution of the US was just as much as Spain, Portugal, and France since the American Revolution siphoned large amounts of men, material, and naval resources for 7 years.
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To be fair, the entirety of the American War of Independence only brought 1/14th of the British Army and 1/12th of the Royal Navy to bear -- most of the rest of those fractions were devoted to fighting France and the horrific new Dachte-Pest (idea-plague) of Republicanism (as scary and novel to the monarchs of the dying 18th century as Communism was to the nations of the 20th century).

Anyway, I think you missed the entire point of my post -- while we may disagree on the importance of the American colonies on the larger world stage at the time, the heart of my post was about Franco-American relations, in history and now.
 
Le Marteau said:
To be fair, the entirety of the American War of Independence only brought 1/14th of the British Army and 1/12th of the Royal Navy to bear -- most of the rest of those fractions were devoted to fighting France and the horrific new Dachte-Pest (idea-plague) of Republicanism (as scary and novel to the monarchs of the dying 18th century as Communism was to the nations of the 20th century).

Anyway, I think you missed the entire point of my post -- while we may disagree on the importance of the American colonies on the larger world stage at the time, the heart of my post was about Franco-American relations, in history and now.
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I agreed with your point which is why I never commented on it. France and the US are alike and shared similar experiences in their revolutions. Although, the French went overboard with the entire murdering of anyone that didn't agree with the Republicans.
 
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