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Should min wage be removed?

Should min wage be removed?

  • Total voters
    68
liblady said:
nope.....but i work for one that has been run into the ground by our ceo.
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Then you have no idea what decisions your CEO has to make to keep the business running profitably. Does an entry level worker have the same responsibilities as a CEO?
 
The_Patriot said:
I believe you're confusing a for profit business with a charity. If a company doesn't make a profit then it won't be able to employ people. One of the nasty side effects of the minimum wage is that when it increases jobs actually decrease in order to maintain a company's profitability. If you're for minimum wage you hate the poor and workers everywhere.
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And workers have to work for a living wage. I think people can barely make it working full time on minimum wage. Employees are people with lives and expenses. If a for profit company can't afford $7.45 an hour, then there is something wrong with them. Having a higher minimum wage puts more money in the pockets of employees, who also pay and circulate their wealth in our economy.
 
The_Patriot said:
Then you have no idea what decisions your CEO has to make to keep the business running profitably. Does an entry level worker have the same responsibilities as a CEO?
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no, nor do i believe an entry level worker should be paid the same as a ceo. i said the gap is too large, and it is, imo.

and clearly, my ceo has no idea what it takes to keep a company running profitably, since he hasn't been up to the task.
 
The_Patriot said:
Your chart is meaningless since it doesn't include a key to understand what the two columns mean. Minimum wage hasn't decreased in real terms. It has increased as evidenced by the fact that the amount has increased. The buying power of the wage has decreased due to inflation. What would have cost to purchase before minimum wage increased should have remained constant with the increase, but due to inflation eroding the value of the dollar has decreased what the same amount of money could buy.
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When the buying power of their wage is decreases, then their wage is decreasing in real terms. Real wage is adjusted for inflation and can't get eroded by inflation.

Here is inflation asjusted minimum wage. it has decreased.
800px-History_of_US_federal_minimum_wage_increases.svg.png
 
digsbe said:
And workers have to work for a living wage. I think people can barely make it working full time on minimum wage. Employees are people with lives and expenses. If a for profit company can't afford $7.45 an hour, then there is something wrong with them. Having a higher minimum wage puts more money in the pockets of employees, who also pay and circulate their wealth in our economy.
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As evidenced by the figures I posted concerning minimum wage increases can you say that minimum wage has actually helped them make a living wage? What is a living wage in your definition? I've already disproven your assertation that a higher minimum wage puts more money in the pockets of the employees. In fact, it has removed more money from their pocket when combined with inflation.
 
Camlon said:
When the buying power of their wage is decreases, then their wage is decreasing in real terms. Real wage is adjusted for inflation and can't get eroded by inflation.

Here is inflation asjusted minimum wage. it has decreased.
800px-History_of_US_federal_minimum_wage_increases.svg.png
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Inflation is an indication of buying power of money. According to your chart, inflation has decreased the buying power of wages, which isn't in dispute. Wages have increased as evidenced by the increase in minimum wage. Buying power is not =/=wages. Buying power is how much goods can a single dollar purchase, which according to your chart it can't really purchase anything nowdays.
 
liblady said:
no, nor do i believe an entry level worker should be paid the same as a ceo. i said the gap is too large, and it is, imo.

and clearly, my ceo has no idea what it takes to keep a company running profitably, since he hasn't been up to the task.
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The gap is big, because the CEO is very important to keep profits up. A bad employee may cost the company 30-40K US dollar. A bad CEO will bancrupt the company and cost them houndreds of million dollar. That's why the CEO has higher wage. Of course, you may have bad luck and get a bad CEO even if you pay a lot of money. But the chance of that is less if you pay more.
 
The_Patriot said:
As evidenced by the figures I posted concerning minimum wage increases can you say that minimum wage has actually helped them make a living wage? What is a living wage in your definition? I've already disproven your assertation that a higher minimum wage puts more money in the pockets of the employees. In fact, it has removed more money from their pocket when combined with inflation.
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It's common sense that higher wages put more money in the pockets of employees. If we lowered minimum wage back to $5.50 an hour would that mean those workers have more money and wealth? So give people less and they will have more? I can say that minimum wage helps people in their living expenses. Do you really think inflation will go down and workers will have more wealth if we lower minimum wage?
 
liblady said:
no, nor do i believe an entry level worker should be paid the same as a ceo. i said the gap is too large, and it is, imo.

and clearly, my ceo has no idea what it takes to keep a company running profitably, since he hasn't been up to the task.
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But you do right? Stating that he doesn't and providing examples are two different things.
 
The_Patriot said:
Inflation is an indication of buying power of money. According to your chart, inflation has decreased the buying power of wages, which isn't in dispute. Wages have increased as evidenced by the increase in minimum wage. Buying power is not =/=wages. Buying power is how much goods can a single dollar purchase, which according to your chart it can't really purchase anything nowdays.
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Yes, the minimum wage has imcreased, but you wrote this
The_Patriot said:
Minimum wage hasn't decreased in real terms.
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That's wrong!
 
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The_Patriot said:
But you do right? Stating that he doesn't and providing examples are two different things.
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i can't give you the name of my company, but the ceo is ultimately responsible for our financial condition.

no, i don't have the skills to run this company.......but neither does he. i never claimed i did, so stop putting words in my mouth.
 
digsbe said:
It's common sense that higher wages put more money in the pockets of employees. If we lowered minimum wage back to $5.50 an hour would that mean those workers have more money and wealth? So give people less and they will have more? I can say that minimum wage helps people in their living expenses. Do you really think inflation will go down and workers will have more wealth if we lower minimum wage?
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Yet, I've shown that increases in minimum wage have not translated into employees having more wealth and money. In fact, the opposite is true. The cost of my sample shows that the value of the dollar has dropped more with an increase in minimum wage from $3.15 an hour to $7.50 an hour. This is a net loss in value of 1.5% for wages when combined with inflation. Prices go up and the amount of what the dollar can buy goes down when minimum wage goes up. How is that putting more money and wealth into the hands of the worker?
 
liblady said:
i can't give you the name of my company, but the ceo is ultimately responsible for our financial condition.

no, i don't have the skills to run this company.......but neither does he. i never claimed i did, so stop putting words in my mouth.
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I never asked for the name of your company. I didn't even ask you to provide examples. Your argument is that the entry level worker should earn more money while bosses should earn less. I disagree since they do not have the same responsibilities nor effect to the company.
 
The_Patriot said:
Yet, I've shown that increases in minimum wage have not translated into employees having more wealth and money. In fact, the opposite is true. The cost of my sample shows that the value of the dollar has dropped more with an increase in minimum wage from $3.15 an hour to $7.50 an hour. This is a net loss in value of 1.5% for wages when combined with inflation. Prices go up and the amount of what the dollar can buy goes down when minimum wage goes up. How is that putting more money and wealth into the hands of the worker?
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the data Camlon posted disproves that assertion. There are more factors to inflation than minimum wage. The value of the dollar has constantly dropped, when has it raised? I think the value of the dollar dropping and minimum wage increasing is not causation, but correlation. There are other factors like national debt and printing money that determine inflation.
 
Camlon said:
Yes, the minimum wage has imcreased, but you wrote this


That's wrong!
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Yes, because we all know that Buying Power=/=Minimum Wage.
 
digsbe said:
the data Camlon posted disproves that assertion. There are more factors to inflation than minimum wage. The value of the dollar has constantly dropped, when has it raised? I think the value of the dollar dropping and minimum wage increasing is not causation, but correlation. There are other factors like national debt and printing money that determine inflation.
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Let's go back to my original figures.

@7.50/hour the burger (1.09)=6.8% of the hourly wage
@3.15/hour the burger (.59)=5.3% of the hourly wage

Increasing minimum wage hasn't put more money into the pockets of the worker. In fact, minimum wage has removed more money from workers. I never brought up inflation, but Camlon did.
 
The_Patriot said:
Yet, I've shown that increases in minimum wage have not translated into employees having more wealth and money. In fact, the opposite is true. The cost of my sample shows that the value of the dollar has dropped more with an increase in minimum wage from $3.15 an hour to $7.50 an hour. This is a net loss in value of 1.5% for wages when combined with inflation. Prices go up and the amount of what the dollar can buy goes down when minimum wage goes up. How is that putting more money and wealth into the hands of the worker?
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So you're actually saying that minimum wage increases will only cause inflation to increase faster than the minimum wage?

That's for certain not true. There are many countries that has increased their minimum wage faster than inflation. For instance New Zealand under labour from 1999-2008. Actually the majority of the countries have done so. The reason the minimum wage has dropped in the US in real terms, is because the minimum wage hasn't been increased very much. None of the republicans bothered to increased it and Clinton didnt increase it very much either.

The_Patriot said:
Yes, because we all know that Buying Power=/=Minimum Wage.
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You're digressing. You said the real minimum wage has increased. That's wrong.

BTW: Real minimum wage is equal to buying power for minimum wage earners.
 
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The_Patriot said:
I never asked for the name of your company. I didn't even ask you to provide examples. Your argument is that the entry level worker should earn more money while bosses should earn less. I disagree since they do not have the same responsibilities nor effect to the company.
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you posted this:

But you do right? Stating that he doesn't and providing examples are two different things.
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i can't provide an example, and i never posted that i could run my company. i also posted that the gap was too large. as to effect on the company, clearly our ceo has been detrimental, so he should make less.
 
Camlon said:
So you're actually saying that minimum wage increases will only cause inflation to increase faster than the minimum wage?

That's for certain not true. There are many countries that has increased their minimum wage faster than inflation. For instance New Zealand under labour from 1999-2008. Actually the majority of the countries have done so. The reason the minimum wage has dropped in the US in real terms, is because the minimum wage hasn't been increased very much. None of the republicans bothered to increased it and Clinton didnt increase it very much either.
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I never said anything of the sort. I did say that minimum wage and inflation are an indication of buying power. Yes, it's well known that inflation erodes the buying power of money. The only cause for inflation is the printing of fiat currency. Minimum wage affects the base cost of a good. When combined together minimum wage has increased, but the buying power of the money has decreased due to inflation. That is what I said.
 
liblady said:
you posted this:



i can't provide an example, and i never posted that i could run my company. i also posted that the gap was too large. as to effect on the company, clearly our ceo has been detrimental, so he should make less.
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I asked you for an honest answer. I'm not much for using the theory of the value of labor, but a worker has every right to refuse a wage that they think is unfair. They can also demand a wage that is higher. It doesn't mean that they'll get it though. It just means that their labor is up for sale and they are the ones that can determine its value.
 
No, the minimum wage is necessary to prevent an America that transforms into Mexico.
 
Hell no it shouldn't be removed, the minimum wage protects unskilled people from being taken advantage of. The is a minimum price for human labor, if you can't afford to pay minimum wage you probably shouldn't be in business.
 
Remove minimum wage? Might as well bring back slavery then...
 
The minimum wage is an important hedge for how the economy actually works. Although theoretically an employee can negotiate themselves a market-driven value for their pay, reality is never that simple. Financial desperation, localized economic distortions and imperfect information all make it easy to get away with paying substandard wages. As we can see from the 19th century, that tends toward poverty, riots, strikes and communism. Accepting a certain amount of economic inefficiency for social stability is a fair trade.
 
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