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Should min wage be removed?

Should min wage be removed?

  • Total voters
    68
The_Patriot said:
Do you run a multibillion dollar company? If you don't then you have no idea what the top employees are worth.
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IF those at the top are honest and decent, they would know what they are worth better than us, BUT, I have read and concluded,over the years, that many "executives" are worthless...There is no denying this. These people are men, just like the union workers, down to the door sweep, and subject to the same shortcomings..(ignorance and fear and greed)
I am in full concurrence with Liblady's assessment.
 
The_Patriot said:
You're under the false asumption that a CEO and an entry level worker have the same basic job functions and responsibilities. This isn't the case since those at the top of the company are responsible for all of the employees under them and if they fail to do their job properly they affect everyone that is below them. An entry level worker doesn't have the same effect, since their decisions do not impact the company to the same degree as the top salaries and definitely do not impact anyone below them since there isn't anyone there.Rather obvious..
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Its high time that these so-called upper classes dismounted from their high horses and learned to respect those "below" them.. I believe that I have know floor sweeps who could contribute to the health of a company, if only the CEO had any sense.
 
earthworm said:
Its high time that these so-called upper classes dismounted from their high horses and learned to respect those "below" them.. I believe that I have know floor sweeps who could contribute to the health of a company, if only the CEO had any sense.
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Yeah like the former CEO of Home Depot, that ran the company into the ground and still recieved $18 million to be fired.
 
There is a reason labor unions began in the first place. Capitalism encouraged company executives to pay people more but only in a few cases. The reasons for that are not because of the 'free market' but trying to avoid the consequences of not doing so. Take for example the Ford Company. As revolutionary as they were in production methods and treatment of employees, by the 1920s they still had people working in their factories at wages which hadn't changed in over a decade. When workers began demanding pay raises to keep up with changing times, inflation etc, the response came in the form of government supported violence, union busters etc. Workers in turn responded by lock-outs and massive rallies. If you take a look at the global history of labor movements much more damaging consequences happened to workers in South America who tried to unionize. Capitalism, because it is a system where the only things that matter are supply and demand, is not a system where one could expect the 'free market' to actually benefit the living standards of the majority in a population or even a sizable percentage unless measures are taken to protect workers. This leads to me believe that there needs to be a government imposed minimum to what should be paid for an honest day's work also because setting such a standard(and changing it as time goes by) diffuses any kind of social upheaval which would eventually come.
 
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You people are looking at this backwards. People have a marginal level of productivity. Period. The existence or non-existence thereof does not change that fact. A minimum wage merely makes it illegal to hire those whose marginal level of productivity is below the minimum wage (unless the company decides to hire them at a loss, which would be stupid and not a substantial occurrence).

But what of the claim that supermarkets and fast-food places won't just close because they can no longer hire checkers and bag boys and shelvers, etc. To stay in business, won't they have to keep these people employed? Yes, but you're ignoring something. The law of decreasing marginal productivity states that the more of something you have, the lower your rate of return. So what does this mean? Well without a minimum wage, you'll have a certain number of businesses. With a minimum wage, because of diminishing marginal productivity, you won't see supermarkets and other businesses expand as they could. The minimum wage raises costs, and so if profit can't keep up with cost, then it's not going to happen. Raising minimum wage raises costs, so raising minimum wage decreases production.
 
tlmorg02 said:
Yeah like the former CEO of Home Depot, that ran the company into the ground and still recieved $18 million to be fired.
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Better to get rid of him at $18 million than keep him hired where he can cause more damage to the company than the $18 million payoff.
 
phattonez said:
You people are looking at this backwards. People have a marginal level of productivity. Period. The existence or non-existence thereof does not change that fact. A minimum wage merely makes it illegal to hire those whose marginal level of productivity is below the minimum wage (unless the company decides to hire them at a loss, which would be stupid and not a substantial occurrence).

But what of the claim that supermarkets and fast-food places won't just close because they can no longer hire checkers and bag boys and shelvers, etc. To stay in business, won't they have to keep these people employed? Yes, but you're ignoring something. The law of decreasing marginal productivity states that the more of something you have, the lower your rate of return. So what does this mean? Well without a minimum wage, you'll have a certain number of businesses. With a minimum wage, because of diminishing marginal productivity, you won't see supermarkets and other businesses expand as they could. The minimum wage raises costs, and so if profit can't keep up with cost, then it's not going to happen. Raising minimum wage raises costs, so raising minimum wage decreases production.
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Raising the minimum wage gives people more money in their pockets to buy stuff causing production to INCREASE.
 
Should min wage be removed?

No it should not be removed. Removing it will only lower starting wages.
 
jamesrage said:
Should min wage be removed?

No it should not be removed. Removing it will only lower starting wages.
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People don't tend towards the job where they can get the highest pay, all other things being equal?
 
One of the unintended consequences of minimum wage is that it pushes younger workers out of the labor force by the removal of entry level jobs. The younger workers are removed from the labor pool because businesses want to hire people with experience and younger workers do not have it. Minimum wage also impacts minorities more since minorities are often at a disadvantage in the market for entry level jobs. History of racism plays a role in this as well due to the stereotypes that certain races are lazy etc...
 
The_Patriot said:
Your calculation is flawed since you assume that every minimum wage worker works as a full time employee. You should have just calculated based off of one hour of work.

@7.50/hour the burger (1.09)=6.8% of the hourly wage
@3.15/hour the burger (.59)=5.3% of the hourly wage

It's roughly the same percentage wise, but it does show a distriburbing trend that the higher minimum wage goes the less buying power the earner has.
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1 hour? :lol: Who works 1 hour a week?
 
The_Patriot said:
1 hour is the baseline for figuring out the change in prices.
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Actually, its the amount one makes per year that is used for that determination, also most people work full time, so its reasonable to use a standard week.
 
megaprogman said:
Actually, its the amount one makes per year that is used for that determination, also most people work full time, so its reasonable to use a standard week.
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Source for this claim that most workers work full time. My example was not to be an extensive study on the correlation between prices and minimum wage. It was an example of how minimum wage hasn't done a damn thing except make people poorer due to the increase on the price goods since minimum wage acts as a glass floor.
 
The_Patriot said:
Source for this claim that most workers work full time.
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Lets just use the average. However, we are in a recession, so normally hours would be higher, so it tilts to your favor. But I am feeling charitable today.

The average workweek for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls was unchanged
over the month at 34.2 hours. The manufacturing workweek for all employees in-
creased by 0.1 hour to 40.2 hours, and factory overtime was up by 0.1 hour.
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Employment Situation Summary

34.2*7.50= 256.5 1.09/256.5= .42%
34.2*3.25=111.15 .59/111.19= .50%

The_Patriot said:
My example was not to be an extensive study on the correlation between prices and minimum wage. It was an example of how minimum wage hasn't done a damn thing except make people poorer due to the increase on the price goods since minimum wage acts as a glass floor.
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Except it didn't do that.
 
megaprogman said:
Lets just use the average. However, we are in a recession, so normally hours would be higher, so it tilts to your favor. But I am feeling charitable today.

Employment Situation Summary

34.2*7.50= 256.5 1.09/256.5= .42%
34.2*3.25=111.15 .59/111.19= .50%



Except it didn't do that.
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Claiming that it didn't do it and proving it are two different things. Are hamburgers at McDonalds still 59 cents?
 
pbrauer said:
Hell no it shouldn't be removed, the minimum wage protects unskilled people from being taken advantage of. The is a minimum price for human labor, if you can't afford to pay minimum wage you probably shouldn't be in business.
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So all the farmers and builders that use illegals should go out of business?
 
The_Patriot said:
Claiming that it didn't do it and proving it are two different things. Are hamburgers at McDonalds still 59 cents?
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I showed that the price of a burger did not rise as fast as wages. You are free to counter my data with some of your own if you wish.
 
megaprogman said:
Actually, its the amount one makes per year that is used for that determination, also most people work full time, so its reasonable to use a standard week.
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Not true when considering minimum wage workers. Many students will work at minimum wage part time and many full time workers supplement their income with part time MW employment.
 
phattonez said:
You people are looking at this backwards. People have a marginal level of productivity. Period. The existence or non-existence thereof does not change that fact. A minimum wage merely makes it illegal to hire those whose marginal level of productivity is below the minimum wage (unless the company decides to hire them at a loss, which would be stupid and not a substantial occurrence).

But what of the claim that supermarkets and fast-food places won't just close because they can no longer hire checkers and bag boys and shelvers, etc. To stay in business, won't they have to keep these people employed? Yes, but you're ignoring something. The law of decreasing marginal productivity states that the more of something you have, the lower your rate of return. So what does this mean? Well without a minimum wage, you'll have a certain number of businesses. With a minimum wage, because of diminishing marginal productivity, you won't see supermarkets and other businesses expand as they could. The minimum wage raises costs, and so if profit can't keep up with cost, then it's not going to happen. Raising minimum wage raises costs, so raising minimum wage decreases production.
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Realize though that over time the demand for labor will become more elastic. A supermarket could invest in physical capital (like a self checkout line) instead of another cashier. A minumum wage would encourage such a thing.
 
Phoenix said:
Not true when considering minimum wage workers. Many students will work at minimum wage part time and many full time workers supplement their income with part time MW employment.
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Whether its students, retirees or anything in between, math is math. Also, I have used the national average work week, so all that other stuff has been already accounted for.
 
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You remove the min. wage, and that just puts more people on welfare, and similar programs. I really can't think of a worse idea.
 
I think a more fair compromise to this issue, would be to lower minimum wage some.
There are some jobs which clearly don't require the present minimum wage, while others that already go over the minimum.

Most people don't stay at minimum wage that long anyway and those that do are typically temp workers or lousy employees.
 
megaprogman said:
I showed that the price of a burger did not rise as fast as wages. You are free to counter my data with some of your own if you wish.
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You did no such thing. The only thing you showed was to back up my statement that the price of a hamburger rose in relation to minimum wage.
 
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