Term limits would have more of a desired effect i think.
If that were true, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
How could ANYone vote "No"????? :wassat1:
Money in campaigns is the largest problem OF the election! It breeds corruption! Anyone with a understanding of the System MUST vote YES!
Term limits would have more of a desired effect i think.
You need to show that this sort of "equality" is necessary, so much so that it requires restricitng the rights of the American people.While term limits would be a blessing for our government, and "politics as usual" it doesn't address the problem of equality in election season.
That's just a function of money, which is a function of having a message that attracts supporters.Not in today's political field. Now adays it is all about drowning out the competition.
While term limits would be a blessing for our government, and "politics as usual" it doesn't address the problem of equality in election season.
Its not for the government to restrict those with the message and the support drawn to said message so that they cannot 'overwhelm' those with a weaker message and less support. The goverment is there to protect your right to free speech, not make sure that everyone has the same access to political advertising.If we want to preserve some semblance of balanced, free speech in our elections, then yes, we should level the playing field.
So what? Groups, special interest or otherwise, are just masses of individuals; groups have the same right to donate to campaigns as individuals because each individual in that group has that right.When you have single groups, single people who can hand out millions of dollars to a political party, that isn't the support of the people, its the support of a person, and more often some special interest groups, through lobbyists and what not.
Limiting how much you can give to a party/candidate limits your right to political free speech. If that speech, expressed through some media other than money, were similarly restricted, all in the interest of making thngs 'fair', you and eveyone else that supports your position here would have a cow.Your perspective would be completely valid if there were absolute limits that any one group could give to any one candidate, and even then, there would be loopholes for those groups to give more, or make it seem like more people gave to one candidate.
So what? Should a college grad be limited in his written expression of support for a candidate because someone who dropped out of school in 8th grade cannot compete with him with his writings?Again, we have single people spending huge amounts of funds to overwhelm the average person.
Well, considering how easy it is for incumbents to get elected right now, it actually does. By having term limits, once an incumbent has reached his limit, it forces both parties to run new candidates for that seat. That, in a way, provides equality every term limit.
Not necessarily. People can PERCEIVE a causal relationship even when one doesn't exist. I've never seen any evidence to indicate that spending more money generates better electoral results...just that there is a correlation between the two.
Its not for the government to restrict those with the message and the support drawn to said message so that they cannot 'overwhelm' those with a weaker message and less support. The goverment is there to protect your right to free speech, not make sure that everyone has the same access to political advertising.
So what? Groups, special interest or otherwise, are just masses of individuals; groups have the same right to donate to campaigns as individuals because each individual in that group has that right.
Limiting how much you can give to a party/candidate limits your right to political free speech. If that speech, expressed through some media other than money, were similarly restricted, all in the interest of making thngs 'fair', you and eveyone else that supports your position here would have a cow.
So what? Should a college grad be limited in his written expression of support for a candidate because someone who dropped out of school in 8th grade cannot compete with him with his writings?
None of this changes what I said - and, in fact, it worsens your position as you arent looking to level the plaing fields in terms of campaingin power, you're looking to level it in terms of election results.Again, this isn't about a weaker message and less support, it is about different types of support. Consider the current political stances. We have Republicans who favor big business, and are more likely to vote for bills that help big businesses. Then we have Democrats, who are considered "socialists" for voting to regulate business. Republicans are more likely to be given donations by big businesses right? And the potential for those donations to be larger then that of say a middle-class American is very real. So, the Democrat might have more people behind him/her, but still cannot compete with the obscenely large donations of the corporations. And therefore, the Republican will find it easier to spread all the disinformation he/she wants about the Democrat. While it is also happens with the Democrat spreading more lies, that is just as bad.
Its not for the government to restrict those with the message and the support drawn to said message so that they cannot 'overwhelm' those with a weaker message and less support.Those are limited groups, correct? You don't see S corporations with thousands of stockholders right? Because of limited liability, a corporation can have more funds to throw at politicians then the same amount of middle-class americans trying to support another candidate. This inequality is the problem.
Noen of this changes anything I said. If that speech, expressed through some media other than money, were similarly restricted, all in the interest of making thngs 'fair', you and eveyone else that supports your position here would have a cow.Limiting how much money you can give limits the candidate's ability to afford commercials, and do other things that cost money. Money is the problem in election season because of the inequalities I stated earlier. Limited liability creates this problem. And don't accuse me of something you don't know, you're just going to end up looking stupid.
This has been addressed - The goverment is there to protect your right to free speech, not make sure that everyone has the same access to political advertising.A college graduate has more education then a high school drop out, true, but you're drawing an incorrect comparison. The right comparison would be in terms of an inequality to publish their messages.
None of this changes what I said - and, in fact, it worsens your position as you arent looking to level the plaing fields in terms of campaingin power, you're looking to level it in terms of election results.
That should be clearly and utterly unacceptabe to anyone; why it isnt to you baffles me.
Its not for the government to restrict those with the message and the support drawn to said message so that they cannot 'overwhelm' those with a weaker message and less support.
Noen of this changes anything I said. If that speech, expressed through some media other than money, were similarly restricted, all in the interest of making thngs 'fair', you and eveyone else that supports your position here would have a cow.
This has been addressed - The goverment is there to protect your right to free speech, not make sure that everyone has the same access to political advertising.
These people aren't perceiving anything. You're saying these campaign experts are common fools who go by their feelings. Not a chance.
Well, that's what I thought you said, and that's the point I oroginally addressed.No, you missed the point I'm trying to make again. I'm trying to allow all politicians in any one race to have an equal oppurtunity to spread their message.
No, I'm saying that, given that campaign donations are a form of free speech, there's no imperfection to begin with.You're saying you are perfectly okay with addressable imperfection in our political system?
Again: So what? All this really means is that the supprters of side A are better organized than the supporters of side B. This isn't an issue that the federal government needs to address.It doesn't change anything because you aren't considering what I told you, even though you think you are. Limited liability is the key concept in this issue: it allows one incorporated group of people to have a larger amount of capital than a group of the same size that isn't incorporated.
teh 'inequality' of some candidtates havng more support than others?And in doing so, the government essentially condones the continuance of complete inequality in our elections.
This should be obvious, and is addressed above.I have a question for you: what is the rationale for not wanting to give every candidate in a race the same amount of opportunity to spread his/her message (regardless of what that message might be)?
Restricting free speech is restricting free speech, regardless of the medum used to convey the message. Restricting donations with the expressed intent to 'level the playing field' is no different than similarly restricting blogs, opinon columns, letters to the editors, pamplheteering or any other more traditional means of supporting a political point - you certainly object to the idea of all the latter, and thus you -should- object to the idea of the former.
I don't know about federally financed, I'd like to see people stop being able to buy elections. First, make it illegal to donate directly to any specific political campaign. If you want to donate, you donate to a general fund which gets dispensed equally to all people running in a particular election. Individual politicians cannot put a penny of their own money into their campaign. That puts everyone on an even playing field. Second, assign federal financial overseers to each campaign who keep track of every penny spent. Anyone who plays hanky panky earns a quick trip to jail for financial misconduct. Third, I'd like to see a limit on how much advertising and especially how much negative campaigning can be done. Require TV and radio stations, as a consequence of their FCC licenses, to air a certain number of 30-second political ads per day (probably under 5 ads), spread out amongst all candidates. These are done in such a way that there is equal coverage among the candidates in various times of the day.
We need to get the elections to be about issues, not money.
No, I'm not. In fact, my very first line - restricting free speech is restricting free speech, regardless of the medum used to convey the message - negates any such argument. Free speech is free speech, regardless of the medium, and so restricting it in any one medium is no different that restricting it in any other.You're comparing apples to oranges
Your failure here is your standard - "baseline equality" is a meaningless standrd, no mater how you define it. Its not the governent jo to make sure all sides of a political contest have equal maeans to access to access the vehicles they choose to use to disseminate their message.There is no baseline equality in the issue we are discussing, whereas there is equality in your examples. If there wasn't equality in those, I would also object to those as well.
That's fine. Thanks!At this point, I think we've both made our arguments known. I still disagree with you, and I'm sure you feel the same, so agree to disagree?
The same goes for individuals that fund campaigns. Everyone acts in their own self-interest.It would appear that the majority of companies funding campaigns, are only companies who will see benefits once their candidate attains office.
I'll agree to this idea so long as -I- get to make those decisions. Cool by you?Funds should be given on the basis of positive, productive, and working ideas for addressing our countries REAL issues.
This is where the problem lies, we should not even consider affiliating our country with "self-interest" but rather the interest of our country, or better yet the earth as a whole.
As for deciding what ideas are productive, and what issues are important, perhaps -YOU- are fit to make these decisions.
But my opinion is that these decisions should be made by a designated board in which the members are designed to fully understand what actually needs to be done in order for our country to prosper at 100%.
Good luck in changing human nature.This is where the problem lies, we should not even consider affiliating our country with "self-interest" but rather the interest of our country, or better yet the earth as a whole.
Then get the system set up and hand me the power.As for deciding what ideas are productive, and what issues are important, perhaps -YOU- are fit to make these decisions.
Ok then -- I get to designate the members of the board.But my opinion is that these decisions should be made by a designated board in which the members are designed to fully understand what actually needs to be done in order for our country to prosper at 100%