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Are White People an oppressed minority?

Are White People an oppressed minority in America?

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .
digsbe said:
I stand corrected. However, were they denied the position based on race?
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That's impossile to determine when the position is decided by a popular vote.

It's entirely possible that Obama only won the primary because he was up against a woman and that women are now more "oppressed" than blacks with regards to positions of political power. Perhpas Palin being McCain's running mate only served to provide more assistance for Obama on that regard. If that were true, then that wouldn't be evidecne that blacks not an oppressed people, just that they are the preffered oppressed choice between women and blacks.


Or it could just be that people just liked him better overall and there was no racism or sexism involved in the decision.

But even that doesn't provide evdiecne that there is not some lingering opression that hasn't been fully alleviated with equal rights. Think about it, we have hundreds of years of systematic oppression of minorites in this country which has led to a culture of oppression within our scoiety. While we've removed most of th ethings that were creating this oppression, the ramifications of hundreds of years doens't magically disappear overnight. It takes time. And in the 40 odd years since we've started truly changing, there have been remarkable improvements. But again, that doesn't mean that there aren't still lingering affects. Especially given the correlations betwen opportunity and socio-economic status.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Cease the personal attacks such as accusations of racism or calling people names such as "tard". Further instances will lead to unpleasant consequences
 
OscarB63 said:
reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit. I have admitted to nothing. You, on the other hand, have repeatedly implied that I am a racist. so before you squeal "personal attack" take a good long look in the mirror.
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I have never called you a racist, i just called out your racist comment.

now you are just talking gibberish. it really is quite simple. The black unemployment rate is 17%. why??? I assume it is due to some failing among blacks. you think I am incorrect. So, give me some proof that the black unemployment rate is higher due to some factor beyond their control.
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Black unemployment is where it's at due to a developmental disadvantage within that particular sub culture. Some factors include relatively younger pregnancy rates and underfunded public schools (see Gary Indiana). To label it a "behavioral problem" is to ignore reality.

yeah, which is why all these affirmative action programs are bull****. but it does give minorities OPPORTUNITY (which was what this about ). What they choose to make of that opportunity is up to them.
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You can't go back on your misuse of the word advantage. White people have a historical competitive advantage as evident in nearly all studies made on the subject. To claim that blacks have some sort of "advantage" is incorrect.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
I have never called you a racist, i just called out your racist comment.
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quibble all you want, your intent was clear



Black unemployment is where it's at due to a developmental disadvantage within that particular sub culture. Some factors include relatively younger pregnancy rates
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and whose fault is this?

and underfunded public schools (see Gary Indiana).
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generalization, not all blacks attend underfunded public schools. many "white" schools are underfunded as well.

To label it a "behavioral problem" is to ignore reality.
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and to discount the behavioral component is equally ignorant





You can't go back on your misuse of the word advantage. White people have a historical competitive advantage as evident in nearly all studies made on the subject. To claim that blacks have some sort of "advantage" is incorrect.
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historical advantage is irrelevent, we aren't living in the past. lower entrance requirements and hiring quotas for minorities give blacks an advantage today.
 
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OscarB63 said:
quibble all you want, your intent was clear
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Sure :shrug:

and whose fault is this?
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This is the type of response that brings the discussion into the realm of opinion. There is no need to assign blame; this reality has a negative impact on childhood development (necessary in obtaining an advantage).

generalization, not all blacks attend underfunded public schools. many "white" schools are underfunded as well.
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Back to the Gary, Indiana reference. Public schools are funded from the local property taxes. School districts with nice gated communities have better resources to give students. Of course, we could switch back to your logic of, "whose fault is it" that their property values are nowhere near levels to appropriate proper funding for public schools?

and to discount the behavioral component is equally ignorant
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My point is that we should attempt to understand why the behavior is what it is instead of taking the anti-intellectual route of assigning blame.

historical advantage is irrelevent, we aren't living in the past.
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It is quite relevant when we compare time frames.

lower entrance requirements and hiring quotas for minorities give blacks an advantage today.
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Again, this is a misuse of advantage; you are using it within the context of expectations which has very little (if anything) to do with an advantage. In your example, there was no disadvantage. If the black kid had higher grades or something along that line, then you could then say he had an advantage.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Back to the Gary, Indiana reference. Public schools are funded from the local property taxes. School districts with nice gated communities have better resources to give students. Of course, we could switch back to your logic of, "whose fault is it" that their property values are nowhere near levels to appropriate proper funding for public schools?
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Not all schools are funded like those in gary ind. In my state all the tax revenue goes into a general fund and the individual school systems are all alloted the same amount of $$$ based on attendance. So there is virtually no difference in funding yet for some reason, the minority schools still underachieve when compared to white schools. Why is that?


why is it so hard for people to step up and take responsibility for their own problems? why must they always try to find someone or something else to blame?

Again, this is a misuse of advantage; you are using it within the context of expectations which has very little (if anything) to do with an advantage. In your example, there was no disadvantage. If the black kid had higher grades or something along that line, then you could then say he had an advantage.
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you are confusing innate personal qualities with institutionally granted advantage.

If all other factors are equal and you give one person preference over another based on race or any other arbitrary factor you are, by definition giving that person an advantage.
 
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Goldenboy219 said:
Black unemployment is where it's at due to a developmental disadvantage within that particular sub culture. Some factors include relatively younger pregnancy rates and underfunded public schools (see Gary Indiana). To label it a "behavioral problem" is to ignore reality.
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Actually, most of the inner city schools I've worked with were funded at a higher level than comparable schools in the burbs, and still demonstrated an educational disparity. That's a common misperception, btw, that black schools get less funding. In many cities, they spend more, per pupil.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Actually, most of the inner city schools I've worked with were funded at a higher level than comparable schools in the burbs, and still demonstrated an educational disparity. That's a common misperception, btw, that black schools get less funding. In many cities, they spend more, per pupil.
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typical of those who continually want to paint minorities as "vicitms of the system". wah, wah, wah, if the poor minorities could only get treated fairly all would be well. :2bigcry:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Actually, most of the inner city schools I've worked with were funded at a higher level than comparable schools in the burbs, and still demonstrated an educational disparity. That's a common misperception, btw, that black schools get less funding. In many cities, they spend more, per pupil.
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More per pupil is a misleading statistic, as it takes into account teacher salaries, maitaince costs, etc.... But what about funding for books, computers, labs etc...?

A quality analysis:

Our findings suggest that spending differences between the inner city
schools and suburban schools in our review do exist, but these differences
for the most part depend upon the metropolitan area. In some
metropolitan areas, inner city schools spent more per pupil whereas in
others suburban schools spent more per pupil. Spending differences,
regardless of metropolitan area for the most part, seemed to be the result
of differences in salaries and student to teacher and staff ratios. However,
the very heavy concentration of poverty in inner city schools may place
them at a spending disadvantage, even when spending is equal. In addition,
the suburban schools, as well as the high-performing inner city schools we
visited, generally had more experienced teachers, lower enrollments, more
library books per child, and more parental in-school volunteer activities
than the other inner city schools in this study. These factors are important
to consider in improving the performance of inner city schools.
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source
 
and more parental in-school volunteer activities
than the other inner city schools in this study.
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the biggest determining factor right there...case closed. when parents are actively involved with their kids education, the kids do better. when parents don't give a ****, neither do the kids and no amount of "funding" is going to change that.
 
LMAO well I didn't know there were that many active posters on the forms here .. lol. Clearly there are 129 social idiots atm that actually believe that whites are a minority that is oppressed in America. What a joke.. and a stupid pole question.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
More per pupil is a misleading statistic, as it takes into account teacher salaries, maitaince costs, etc.... But what about funding for books, computers, labs etc...?

A quality analysis:source
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Yes, but spending dollars on administration versus sending those dollars to the classroom/libraries/computers are local, site-based decisions, made by predominantly black administrators. :shrug:

Your claim was wrong...own it. It is not a spending gap. The GAO report confirms this.
 
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OscarB63 said:
you are confusing innate personal qualities with institutionally granted advantage.

If all other factors are equal and you give one person preference over another based on race or any other arbitrary factor you are, by definition giving that person an advantage.
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That's a term you made up to suit your argument. The reasoning behind such preferential treatment (not your new definition of advantage) is that these students are already disadvantaged to begin with. I am not arguing with the effectiveness of such measures, only that they do not cause oppression (or a competitive disadvantage) among the majority.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
That's a term you made up to suit your argument. The reasoning behind such preferential treatment (not your new definition of advantage) is that these students are already disadvantaged to begin with. I am not arguing with the effectiveness of such measures, only that they do not cause oppression (or a competitive disadvantage) among the majority.
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But, are they disadvantaged on the basis of race, or on the basis of cultural differences (i.e., single parent homes, high levels of crime, joining gangs, etc.)? Your claim appears to be that this disadvantage occcurs as a result of racism. I would suggest that it occurs as a result of widespread cultural decisions based upon lifestyle.

See, I think we've come to a point in time where the primary issue in being disadvantaged is not RACE. It is cultural factors, such as having children out of wedlock, engaging in criminal activity, having families that are disorganized and disrupted, and not actively participating in educational pursuits.

I laugh at the idea that blacks are being held back solely by racism. That's not the issue.

But I also laugh at the idea of whites being oppressed. poor babies. :roll:
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Yes, but spending dollars on administration versus sending those dollars to the classroom/libraries/computers are local, site-based decisions, made by predominantly black administrators. :shrug:

Your claim was wrong...own it. It is not a spending gap. The GAO report confirms this.
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somehow the data just keeps coming back to the conclusion that blacks are responsible for black problems. instead of whining and crying racism, maybe they need to look more inward and see what THEY need to do to fix their own problems. this isn't the 1950s anymore, there is no "institutional" racism keeping them down.
 
OscarB63 said:
somehow the data just keeps coming back to the conclusion that blacks are responsible for black problems. instead of whining and crying racism, maybe they need to look more inward and see what THEY need to do to fix their own problems. this isn't the 1950s anymore, there is no "institutional" racism keeping them down.
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Some of the biggest obstacles to black achievement are criminally incompetent local politicians, schools that are not held accountable to provide adequate educatioanl services to students, and lifestyle choices (not attending school, not being engaged in their children's education, and not postponing having children).
 
Goldenboy219 said:
That's a term you made up to suit your argument. The reasoning behind such preferential treatment (not your new definition of advantage) is that these students are already disadvantaged to begin with. I am not arguing with the effectiveness of such measures, only that they do not cause oppression (or a competitive disadvantage) among the majority.
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please stop the quibbling and answer one simple question:

If all other factors are equal, does giving one person preference over another based on race constitute an advantage for the prefered person? (think long and hard and consider historical trends before you answer)
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Some of the biggest obstacles to black achievement are criminally incompetent local politicians, schools that are not held accountable to provide adequate educatioanl services to students, and lifestyle choices (not attending school, not being engaged in their children's education, and not postponing having children).
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exactly and in black communities who elects the local politicians?, who elects/appoints the school administrators, who makes the lifestyle choices? black people, that's who
 
OscarB63 said:
exactly and in black communities who elects the local politicians?, who elects/appoints the school administrators, who makes the lifestyle choices? black people, that's who
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Yep. It's very disheartening for do-gooders like me.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Yes, but spending dollars on administration versus sending those dollars to the classroom/libraries/computers are local, site-based decisions, made by predominantly black administrators. :shrug

Your claim was wrong...own it. It is not a spending gap. The GAO report confirms this.
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You are holding the funding needs constant; a flaw in your "statistical analysis" . The needs of inner city schools are different than suburban schools on the basis of literacy ages, after school demand, etc.... Therefore, i stand behind my statement of underfunding because of the differentials between child development, parent involvement, crowding, etc....
 
OscarB63 said:
please stop the quibbling and answer one simple question:

If all other factors are equal, does giving one person preference over another based on race constitute an advantage for the prefered person? (think long and hard and consider historical trends before you answer)
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This is a ridiculus argument....

GPA and SAT tests do not make a particular candidate more appealing to a school; there are other factors involved. That is why it is impossible for you to include the ceteris paribus label to the example, because nobody is completely similar. Personal interviews and essays are equally, if not more, important than high school grades, and they will differ between students who come from different socioeconomic backgrounds.

Therefore, preferential treatment does not impact a truly able person’s ability to go to a good school, and does not give them a competitive disadvantage.

Not sure if you are interested, but there is some serious analysis regarding college acceptance: college acceptance

This result is magnified at the most selective 4-year colleges, where the affirmative action ban is predicted to result in reduced minority representation by 10.2%
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Hence, minorities are already at a competitive disadvantage.
 
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