• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    Votes: 3 9.4%

  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    Votes: 29 90.6%
  • Total voters
    32
The_Patriot said:
I pay property taxes so yes this means I have a stake. Let me guess I'm not allowed to have freedom of expression and thought and that I'm to be a good little drone that follows orders without any critical thinking.
Click to expand...
I am no expert in critical thinking, but I am far enough along to recognize those who think they are....
 
The_Patriot said:
I pay property taxes so yes this means I have a stake. Let me guess I'm not allowed to have freedom of expression and thought and that I'm to be a good little drone that follows orders without any critical thinking.
Click to expand...

Wow, the attitude in your post reminds me of a 12 yearold me.
 
UtahBill said:
I am no expert in critical thinking, but I am far enough along to recognize those who think they are....
Click to expand...

Critical thinking is the ability to question everything. You don't like it that I question the existence of public schools and the history of public schools bears out that it's sole purpose is to crank out drones. This is why you keep trying to shut me up about my position. You are unable to defeat the facts I presented, so the only thing left that you do is to block my freedoms of thought and expression. Do not look behind the curtain!
 
megaprogman said:
Wow, the attitude in your post reminds me of a 12 yearold me.
Click to expand...

I noticed that you are silent when the other side told me to move because I didn't like it here. How mature of them.
 
megaprogman said:
Wow, the attitude in your post reminds me of a 12 yearold me.
Click to expand...
love your sig....seems that some people are willfully ignorant, which to me is the first stage of really stupid. And, sadly, it describes half of my siblings..
They all live in east Texas, by choice!!!!:2razz:
 
The_Patriot said:
I noticed that you are silent when the other side told me to move because I didn't like it here. How mature of them.
Click to expand...

I was also silent while Utah Bill is trying to block your freedom of thought. How cruel of him! :lol:
 
UtahBill said:
I read all I could as a child, made a big difference. I even talked my parents into buying the World Book Encyclopedia, and I read most of it. Took me about 5 years, reading off and on...
Kandahar's point that I highlighted...over which the school has control is important to consider, especially for those who think teaching in public schools is easy. The schools really don't have any control over the community, not even when we "indoctrinate" their kids....:2razz:
Click to expand...

I read a tremendous amount too. I am only 42 years old - a youngster by your standards :2razz: - but we also had an Encyclopedia (year 1053) at home. Most of it still applied. As an aside, I unfortunately don't read that much anymore, because of this internet phenomena called DebatePolitics. I am in the middle of 4 books and have a good one queued up from a recommendation by the GND I recall: A Conflict of Visions. How constrained and unconstrained outlooks conflict ideologically.

I also highlighted Kandahar's point. While the content for "indoctrination", which is all education including home schooling, comes from the school, but the impetus for being educatable comes from the home and includes the desire as well as the habit of getting educated. One thing I recall fiercely is the debate and review of knowledge we would have at dinner. Only one time have I stumped my Dad's geography knowledge and that was the capital of Moldova. Jeez.
 
Gabriel said:
In Finland the public education system employs Masters Degree level education for teachers... Guess who has the most effective education system in the world? Teachers level of education should be the primary determining factor on their pay.. of course they deserve raises just like anyone else in the job market.
Click to expand...

There are all manner of educated idiots. Teacher level means nada. My high school had a Master's Degree teacher for math, and he was ineffective. He would have been one of the first to get cut loose had I run the place as a private business.

I've got the following on my ipod... it's 20 minutes of hilarity... about schools, and kids.



.
 
Last edited:
reefedjib said:
I read a tremendous amount too. I am only 42 years old - a youngster by your standards :2razz: - but we also had an Encyclopedia (year 1053) at home. Most of it still applied. As an aside, I unfortunately don't read that much anymore, because of this internet phenomena called DebatePolitics. I am in the middle of 4 books and have a good one queued up from a recommendation by the GND I recall: A Conflict of Visions. How constrained and unconstrained outlooks conflict ideologically.

I also highlighted Kandahar's point. While the content for "indoctrination", which is all education including home schooling, comes from the school, but the impetus for being educatable comes from the home and includes the desire as well as the habit of getting educated. One thing I recall fiercely is the debate and review of knowledge we would have at dinner. Only one time have I stumped my Dad's geography knowledge and that was the capital of Moldova. Jeez.
Click to expand...
My daughter told me once that I am a master of useless information....
BTW, 1053? That has to have some serious collectors value...:2razz:
I have Parkinson's, and the spell check alert is always going off. I rarely get a whole line done without an error. the 9 and 0 are often switched, and I put in a LOT of extra L's. The L finger has a mind of its own..
 
megaprogman said:
I was also silent while Utah Bill is trying to block your freedom of thought. How cruel of him! :lol:
Click to expand...
I try to use my powers righteously, but sometimes I just feel like sinning...
 
zimmer said:
There are all manner of educated idiots. Teacher level means nada. My high school had a Master's Degree teacher for math, and he was ineffective. He would have been one of the first to get cut loose had I run the place as a private business.

I've got the following on my ipod... it's 20 minutes of hilarity... about schools, and kids.
Click to expand...

BCTF > Finland

Finland’s education system is tops: Here’s why
by Mike Lombardi

Finland, a country with a population of five million, has once again scored at the top in international tests in math, science, and reading literacy. This article summarizes policy directions that have made Finland the international academic star. Policy makers, educators, and the media can take a lesson from Finland.
Click to expand...

Highly qualified teachers and pedagogical autonomy

In Finnish culture, teaching is one of the most important professions of society, and substantial resources are invested in teacher education.
Teachers are trusted to do their best as true professionals of education. They are entrusted with considerable pedagogical independence in the classroom, and schools have likewise enjoyed significant autonomy in organizing their work within the national curriculum.
All Finnish teachers complete a master’s degree, either in education or in a teaching subject. They are considered pedagogical experts.
Additionally, the profession of classroom teacher is greatly valued and popular among post-secondary students. Only 10% of the applicants for teacher-education programs are admitted.
Finnish teachers set high standards for students’ literacy skills and interests.
Regarded as educational experts, Finnish teachers are relied on when it comes to student assessment, which usually draws on students’ class work, projects, teacher-made exams, and portfolios. In Finland, teacher-based assessment is all the more important because at Finnish comprehensive schools students are not assessed by national tests or examinations during the school years or upon completing school.
Teachers are vested with considerable decision-making authority as concerns school policy and management. They have almost exclusive responsibility for the choice of textbooks and have more say than their counterparts in the OECD countries in determining course content, establishing student assessment policies, deciding which courses the school should offer, and allocating budgets within the school.
Click to expand...
 
UtahBill said:
My daughter told me once that I am a master of useless information....
BTW, 1053? That has to have some serious collectors value...:2razz:
I have Parkinson's, and the spell check alert is always going off. I rarely get a whole line done without an error. the 9 and 0 are often switched, and I put in a LOT of extra L's. The L finger has a mind of its own..
Click to expand...

Whoops, you're right - 1953. The L finger does have a mind of its own! It is supposed to be the ring finger, but since I type with just 4 fingers, it turns out it is my middle finger.
 
zimmer said:
There are all manner of educated idiots. Teacher level means nada. My high school had a Master's Degree teacher for math, and he was ineffective. He would have been one of the first to get cut loose had I run the place as a private business.

I've got the following on my ipod... it's 20 minutes of hilarity... about schools, and kids.




.
Click to expand...
TED is great. Last weekend I spent nearly all the weekend listening to TED, and WIMP.COM.....
 
The_Patriot said:
Why should I move from my country when I'm quite happy with the people? The government is not the country, but the people are. My dad taught me the best bit of advice, which is I love my country, but I hate my government. This is coming from a Vietnam vet that lost 62 of his best friends in the Mekong Delta. Besides there is such a thing as freedom of thought and expression. Are you saying that I'm not allowed to enjoy my freedoms just because you disagree with me?
Click to expand...

No, you're allowed your freedoms. You're allowed to complain constantly. I am allowed to state that you constant complaining is hypocritical.
 
The_Patriot said:
What about the schools in New York City where children as young as 5 are arrested for failing to listen to the teachers? What about schools that lose accredidation from the state? Should they still be allowed to teach when they have demonstrated that they cannot?
Click to expand...

Could you provide some proof of this happening. It sounds crazy.
 
Kandahar said:
A good teacher can certainly change the proportion of those who are listening. Of course kids are going to be falling asleep in class if the teacher drones on in a monotone voice, spending the entire class facing the whiteboard with his back to his students. Furthermore, a good teacher can change how much the good students excel, and how far behind the bad students fall. There will always be some students who do better than others, but the teacher absolutely does have an effect on how much they are learning. It's about much more than student involvement, and in any case, student involvement is not a constant. If it was, we could just replace all the teachers with a recording of the lesson and save a lot of money on salaries.

Research has shown that a good teacher can cover 1.5 years of material in a single school year, whereas a bad teacher may cover as little as 0.5 years. In other words, the quality of the teacher determines an entire year's worth of material each and every school year.
Click to expand...

Your link is one authors opinion. They are trying to sell a book. Hardly a definitive comment on education.
 
Mellie said:
Simple question. Maybe a simple answer.

Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

If so, why?
If not, how would you revamp the salary schedules if you were in charge?
Click to expand...

i think teacher salaries should be based on a few things:

1. merit
2. education
3. years of service
4. grades taught

it's important for new and younger teachers to have older teachers as mentors. continuing education is paramount, and results, obviously, are primary.
 
UtahBill said:
Most of the Scandinavians have an advantage over us....just learning to speak their language reasonably well, they have already developed their brains more than most of us...
Click to expand...

lol, dear lord.
 
The_Patriot said:
That's part of being allowed into the school and to see how close you are to the school's academic level. Tests were instituted because of the failure of public schools to teach. However, I do know that Catholic and many church schools will not turn away a student.
Click to expand...

Nope two of them were a Catholic school and my brother was turned down because he was 1% under what they wanted. In fact growing up church schools were the hardest to get into because you had to take a test and do an interview for the high schools.
 
Layla_Z said:
Your link is one authors opinion. They are trying to sell a book. Hardly a definitive comment on education.
Click to expand...

Huh? It's a compilation of research from several academic sources. And I don't see anything about a book...at least not as it relates to these sources. If your attitude is that it can't be trusted because the researchers might make money, the same could be said about ANY scholarly research (didn't you just cite a bunch of those yourself?)
 
Last edited:
liblady said:
i think teacher salaries should be based on a few things:

1. merit
2. education
3. years of service
4. grades taught

it's important for new and younger teachers to have older teachers as mentors. continuing education is paramount, and results, obviously, are primary.
Click to expand...
and subject taught. Grading papers is fairly easy in a math class, for english, you have to read all of the papers.
PhsEd should not be paid near as much as core subjects.
 
The_Patriot said:
Critical thinking is the ability to question everything. You don't like it that I question the existence of public schools and the history of public schools bears out that it's sole purpose is to crank out drones. This is why you keep trying to shut me up about my position. You are unable to defeat the facts I presented, so the only thing left that you do is to block my freedoms of thought and expression. Do not look behind the curtain!
Click to expand...
How are we blocking you? by not agreeing with you? We think you are wrong, and I personally think you have brainwashed yourself...
You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.
 
UtahBill said:
Most of the Scandinavians have an advantage over us....just learning to speak their language reasonably well, they have already developed their brains more than most of us...
Click to expand...

It's only Finland that is doing well. The other Scandinavian countries aren't doing well in international surveys at all and in general people are pretty stupid and uninformed. Although they think they are inteligent. They all got the same system as Finland (so it's not the system US should adopt), but the difference is the teachers.
 
UtahBill said:
How are we blocking you? by not agreeing with you? We think you are wrong, and I personally think you have brainwashed yourself...
You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.
Click to expand...

Declaring me wrong and proving it with facts are two different things. Sadly, you haven't been able to prove that I am wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom