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Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?

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    22
Never, really, allocation of goods and addressing product demand with control has never been achieved. I like Khayembii's analogy of the lightbulb having been an idea before it was achieved. If it works its good. Countries such as Russia had no chance in engineering an economy top down. Except the economy of miltiary defense.
 
SE102 said:
Never, really, allocation of goods and addressing product demand with control has never been achieved. I like Khayembii's analogy of the lightbulb having been an idea before it was achieved. If it works its good. Countries such as Russia had no chance in engineering an economy top down. Except the economy of miltiary defense.
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Except that a lightbulb could possibly have one day worked (and now it does). Communism is nice to theorize about, but I don't see human nature changing anytime soon.
 
snbl11225 said:
I disagree with your premise. There are some people who can rise to the top within our system. But please don't tell me that they can do it without the others below them who are providing the labor, products, etc.
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They also need trusted friends with mutual interests, a good business plan, being at the right place at the right time with the right kind of experience and connections, and plain old good luck.

ricksfolly
 
SE102 said:
In reality a communist society is only as poor as the economy is badly managed.
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Communism works fine for a while, and then the leaders get over ambitious and greedy.

What they needed from the start was a locked-in computerized plan that couldn't be altered until a group representing the people approved it.

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
Communism works fine for a while, and then the leaders get over ambitious and greedy.

What they needed from the start was a locked-in computerized plan that couldn't be altered until a group representing the people approved it.

ricksfolly
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That doesn't change the Economic Calculation Problem.
 
phattonez said:
That doesn't change the Economic Calculation Problem.
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Depends on how many contracts they have, how much money they gross, the kind and number of facilities and labor needed, balanced sliding rate scales, and thorough programmers.

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
Communism works fine for a while, and then the leaders get over ambitious and greedy.

What they needed from the start was a locked-in computerized plan that couldn't be altered until a group representing the people approved it.

ricksfolly
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What are you talking about? Communist countries can be democracies or anarchies if they wished :shrug:
 
SE102 said:
What are you talking about? Communist countries can be democracies or anarchies if they wished :shrug:
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Nope, I'm only saying that socialism might work if the the corruption can be kept out of it, nothing about politics or other methods.

ricksfolly
 
ricksfolly said:
Depends on how many contracts they have, how much money they gross, the kind and number of facilities and labor needed, balanced sliding rate scales, and thorough programmers.

ricksfolly
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A small communist state could work, but it would never work on a world-wide scale.
 
earthworm said:
Good post.
The poll is obviously fixed and controlled.
Balance is the key, and we need more socialism to restore a good balance.
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Listen to the independent mind!
 
There will be poverty, despair, and whatever within any system. It is less pronounced in capitalist societies because we herd our poor all to one side of a city so that we may ignore that they exist. Regardless, true communism is utopian and not possible to actually obtain. Some people will not pull their share, some will be greedy, thus human nature interferes.
 
tlmorg02 said:
There will be poverty, despair, and whatever within any system. It is less pronounced in capitalist societies because we herd our poor all to one side of a city so that we may ignore that they exist. Regardless, true communism is utopian and not possible to actually obtain. Some people will not pull their share, some will be greedy, thus human nature interferes.
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Communists have to many poor people to shove to one side of town.
 
American said:
Communists have to many poor people to shove to one side of town.
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The countries that claim to be communist are only so in name. They are rather dictatorships that are only designed to benefit the leadership.
 
tlmorg02 said:
The countries that claim to be communist are only so in name. They are rather dictatorships that are only designed to benefit the leadership.
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Because Communism is impossible? Classless society can only exist if enforced from above?
 
phattonez said:
Because Communism is impossible? Classless society can only exist if enforced from above?
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Yes...

There will always be someone who attempts to raise themselves above others, be it through violent or non-violent means.

Until all humans start teaching their offspring to avoid such things, which will likely only happen via – some kind of enforced training from above…

Barring that, I can’t see it happening.

But perhaps I am wrong.
 
phattonez said:
Because Communism is impossible? Classless society can only exist if enforced from above?
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It may exist in small groups of like-minded individuals. But on a national or global scale? Not a chance.
 
ricksfolly said:
Not with a third of the world living in abject poverty. The History channel said the UN dropped 500 million care packages last year.

ricksfolly
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Then maybe we should do something about their corrupt governments and anti-trade policies that detract foreign investment.
 
No, of course not, communism is pure and good. It is people who use the Marxist ideal as a means to gain control of the masses with their perceived morally superior intellect, cause most of the population to live in poverty, and why not as most of the population, through their superior lens is not worthy to be in their inner circle. Only through oppression, re-education through force can stamp out the inferior scoundrel known as capitalism. When this is completed, when the inferior scoundrel known as capitalism, aka materialism and greed can crushed, then the new human will start to do good and live in harmony with only things they need. In the mean time, proponents of communism can bitch at reality....
 
funny how the anti communist rigged poll nearly reflects the 'democratic posers' of most communist parties
 
I can't believe I wasted a few minutes of my time reading through the trash posted in the last few pages of the thread. "Communism is utopian" is not an argument. Neither is "it goes against human nature". You people aren't even making arguments.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I can't believe I wasted a few minutes of my time reading through the trash posted in the last few pages of the thread. "Communism is utopian" is not an argument. Neither is "it goes against human nature". You people aren't even making arguments.
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Well, it may be that I am incorrect, but I truly think that the variances in human nature prevent Communism from ever becoming the dominate political structure in the world – or even a large minority of it.. It could be that my definition of communism is too broad, including some forms you might not agree with, which might invalidate this theory.

As too the “Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?” question, I think it depends on the form of communism in question.

Personally, I don’t like the idea of communism (although I’ve never made a detailed study of it so my understanding may be wrong) because it seems to downplay competition and individual achievements.
 
SE102 said:
Never, really, allocation of goods and addressing product demand with control has never been achieved. I like Khayembii's analogy of the lightbulb having been an idea before it was achieved. If it works its good. Countries such as Russia had no chance in engineering an economy top down. Except the economy of miltiary defense.
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The failure of the Soviet planned economy was due to two main reasons: the planning apparatus being implemented by a state bureaucracy isolated from the people as a whole, effectively isolating demand from supply; and the fact that the economy was subject to a declassed bureaucracy and thus subject to the blind and contradictory whims of the bureaucrats as a whole as well as the antagonisms between various sections of the bureaucracy.

The Mark said:
Well, it may be that I am incorrect, but I truly think that the variances in human nature prevent Communism from ever becoming the dominate political structure in the world – or even a large minority of it.
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And I would argue that the idea of your "human nature" is absurd and therefore this isn't an argument. But thanks for making a coherent post; this thread needed reviving.
 
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Khayembii Communique said:
And I would argue that the idea of a "human nature" is absurd and therefore this isn't an argument.
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Hmm.

Why would you argue so?

I'm thinking of "human nature" in terms of the decisions and choices humans make during their lifetimes.

The variances seem great, and unless my understanding as to the definition of communism is completely incorrect, some of those choices/decisions would seem to cause issues in a communist governing system.
 
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