Do You Support the DREAM Act?

mac said:

Filipinos got the best deal, they pay no taxs whatsoever. I know many that retired as 3 year Master Chiefs then when back to Pi and lived like kings on their retirements.

Part of the SOFA agreement with many countries allows their citizens to join and earn breaks towards citizenship, such as waiver of fees, removal of some of the red tape, etc. Beyond AFN commercials I never had to look to deep into it since my specialty requires US citizenship and I've never had to pursue it for any of my sailors.

As I understand it this applies to anyone of the SOFA countries, most of the Americas, and any of our territories and protectorates. Samoa, PR, etc.

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That's 30, not 3. pardons.

digsbe said:

However, they still remained here as adults when they could have gone back to their native country. This is still criminal.

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No, it isn't.

I support giving them a chance to become citizens, but I don't support the military option for the reason RightinNYC mentions. It would effectively give many of them a choice between serving in the military and being deported.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Change the poll to you must serve in the military for the standard four year contract.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

Just kick em out is not the only solution. There is entice them to deport themselves by enacting laws similar to those in Oklahoma and Arizaona. We can enact tougher fines and punishments for those who hire illegals like prison time, make assets seizure and forfeiture laws apply to those who hire illegals and enact a mandatory 6 month jail sentence for illegals who are caught. You never allow illegals to walk freely into a government office when the government is supposed to arresting and deporting illegals.

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There are some MAJOR probelms with the 'just kick em out' strategy.
1-Never will you get enough political support to make it happen, so nothing will change
2-You will spend GAZILLIONS in arresting, housing, trying, legal challenges, appeals, and lose.
3-Nothing long term will change.

Look...I dont endorse or embrace illegal immigration and I absolutely get something HAS to change. But the hard line arrest and deport position simply is never going to happen. So as long as the hard line is the only line...nothing changes.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

VanceMack said:

There are some MAJOR probelms with the 'just kick em out' strategy.
1-Never will you get enough political support to make it happen, so nothing will change

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States are starting to follow Oklahoma and Arizona's lead.So it is gaining political support.

2-You will spend GAZILLIONS in arresting, housing, trying, legal challenges, appeals, and lose.

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Not if you get most of the illegals to deport themselves.

3-Nothing long term will change.

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Fed up Americans are pushing for change on the local level.

Look...I dont endorse or embrace illegal immigration and I absolutely get something HAS to change. But the hard line arrest and deport position simply is never going to happen. So as long as the hard line is the only line...nothing changes.

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If you cause illegals to deport themselves it will not cost much. If you remove incentive to hire illegals you dry up illegal alien employment then you encourage illegals to leave, if you deny tax payer funded benefits and services to illegals you encourage illegals to leave. If you require police officers to verify the legal status of anyone they pull over for a traffic offense you make it less safe for illegals to drive on the road. If you repeal part of the INS Act of 1965 that allows for chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children you remove an incentive for someone to come here illegally.


You do not say screw it and allow some form of amnesty, that just makes the problem worse.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Yes. I fully support this. You can beat your chest and say this is rewarding illegal activity, but this is a practical way to give hard working people who want to be in this country a way in. It would only help America, and this should be law.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I don't see how it is awarding illegal activity. They will have to work hard in order to stay, completing high school and then at least partially completing college, or joining the military. All of those require work and dedication. If they meet the criteria and the criteria are actually enforced then it's going to turn people into citizens who have the most potential to contribute to the nation.

The Giant Noodle said:

I oppose it! Period!

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Why do Libertarians not like Mexicans?

They never complain when they get a cheap quote on a kitchen demolition.

They never complain about low-priced produce, hamburger, or any other business that cuts overhead by hiring illegals.

Not saying businesses should do that, just saying, cut the demand and the supply will go elsewhere. Go after big produce and big food companies that use illegal labor. Make hiring illegals a hefty fine, with possible jail time.

The HBO Documentary on the fence showed it doesn't work.

hazlnut said:

Why do Libertarians not like Mexicans?

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Im a Libertarian and Puerto Rican descent, I dont like people who are illegally here. Amnesty and any other forum of their of is nothing but a slap in the face to legal immigrants who poored their blood and sweat to go through the cluster**** process of coming to this country.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

Just kick em out is not the only solution. There is entice them to deport themselves by enacting laws similar to those in Oklahoma and Arizaona. We can enact tougher fines and punishments for those who hire illegals like prison time, make assets seizure and forfeiture laws apply to those who hire illegals and enact a mandatory 6 month jail sentence for illegals who are caught. You never allow illegals to walk freely into a government office when the government is supposed to arresting and deporting illegals.

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For me...I think I can see myself in the position of many of those illegal immigrants. If I had to live in that ****hole, I would do everything I could to escape it and find a way to provide for my family. The reality is that we have made the way here very easy and very enticing. We have given lip service to immigration laws and have certainly contributed to the problem. Im not taking the blame from illegals. Im not taking the responsibility from them. But there has to be a solution sooner than later...one that can actually work. The solution isnt a simple one. it takes a willingness to work with mexico, a unified national effort to make hiring illegal immigration an enforced criminal activity. The solution cant create a civil war. The solution has to be workable.

But I DO understand the opposition. I guess agree to disagree...

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

States are starting to follow Oklahoma and Arizona's lead.So it is gaining political support.



Not if you get most of the illegals to deport themselves.





Fed up Americans are pushing for change on the local level.



If you cause illegals to deport themselves it will not cost much. If you remove incentive to hire illegals you dry up illegal alien employment then you encourage illegals to leave, if you deny tax payer funded benefits and services to illegals you encourage illegals to leave. If you require police officers to verify the legal status of anyone they pull over for a traffic offense you make it less safe for illegals to drive on the road. If you repeal part of the INS Act of 1965 that allows for chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children you remove an incentive for someone to come here illegally.


You do not say screw it and allow some form of amnesty, that just makes the problem worse.

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I agree that you dont just say screw it and allow amnesty. I think there are SEVERAL very real changes that HAVE to occur to secure border and effect long term change. Thats been the problem with the past amnesty efforts...it didnt do anything to prevent future problems.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Your Star said:

Yes. I fully support this. You can beat your chest and say this is rewarding illegal activity, but this is a practical way to give hard working people who want to be in this country a way in. It would only help America, and this should be law.

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You do realize that most military jobs are civilian equivalent jobs not combat jobs. So you would be basically saying get a regular job and you can stay.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

VanceMack said:

I agree that you dont just say screw it and allow amnesty.

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Are you not basically saying screw it heres amnesty all you got to do is get a job or go to college to get it, two things illegals should not be doing in the first place?

I think there are SEVERAL very real changes that HAVE to occur to secure border and effect long term change. Thats been the problem with the past amnesty efforts...it didnt do anything to prevent future problems.

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Securing the border is only part of the solution. You have to discourage illegal immigration as well. You do not need amnesty or any other reward that allows illegals to jump ahead of the line of everybody else. You have crack down on the traitors who hire illegals by making them subject to the same laws any other criminal who profited from illegal actives would be subject to. Which is prison time, heavy fines, assets seizure and forfeiture. If an illegal is caught toss his or her ass in jail for six months plus additional time for other crimes and then deport their ass. Deny tax payer funded services such as tuition, driver's licenses, welfare,section 8 housing, food handlers permits, IDs and etc. Require that parents provide proof of residency and State issued ID or drivers license in order to enroll their children into school. Require that money wiring services, banks and check cashing places require their customers to show a valid state ID and proof of residency. Require police to verify the legal status of anyone they pull over for traffic offenses or some other form of legal contact. Require law enforcement verify the legal status those arrested. Require auto dealerships to verify that the individual buying,renting or leasing a car has valid state driver's license. Illegals who are caught should have their biometric data stored in a database and used to permanently deny entry into the US.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

I don't see how anyone would oppose someone that want's to be an American and is willing to work for it. Anyone that does this is obviously trying to do the right thing, why not support that?

Why punish the child for the "sins" of the parents?

I voted that I support it but I think some flaws could develop, I mean this could provide an incentive for parents to illegally cross the border with their children just to give them a chance to take part in the dream act. It possibly would be better to take out college all together and just leave the military as the only option.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

jamesrage said:

You do realize that most military jobs are civilian equivalent jobs not combat jobs. So you would be basically saying get a regular job and you can stay.

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So? They are still in the military, or in college bettering themselves. If someone is willing to do this why wouldn't we want them in our country?

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Your Star said:

So? They are still in the military, or in college bettering themselves. If someone is willing to do this why wouldn't we want them in our country?

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Because they are breaking our laws. Personally I think they should make it illegal for them to join the military. They shouldn't be accepting admitted offenders of the law who have not been to trial or deported for their crime. It's just not right.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

mac said:

I don't see how anyone would oppose someone that want's to be an American and is willing to work for it. Anyone that does this is obviously trying to do the right thing, why not support that?

Why punish the child for the "sins" of the parents?

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If they wanted to be an American and wanted to work for then they would do the same thing as legal immigrants.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Your Star said:

So? They are still in the military, or in college bettering themselves. If someone is willing to do this why wouldn't we want them in our country?

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You create another incentive for people to come here illegally.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

digsbe said:

Because they are breaking our laws. Personally I think they should make it illegal for them to join the military. They shouldn't be accepting admitted offenders of the law who have not been to trial or deported for their crime. It's just not right.

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But look at what law are they breaking? They are not hurting anybody, and do you really blame them. If you had a choice between living in Mexico or the US, and you tried to get here legally, but you can't because it's a pain in the royal ass to get in here legally, don't even tell me you wouldn't consider crossing the border.

jamesrage said:

You create another incentive for people to come here illegally.

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It's a practical way of dealing with the problem of illegal immigration, and it would help our country.

We also need to make it easier to come in legally so that programs like this won't even be needed much.

VanceMack said:

I absolutely OPPOSE this only because harry Reid is tying it to the defense spending bill. What a ****ing piece of **** he is.

The CONCEPT...I actually support. i know the arguments...it rewards illegal immigration...OK...I get that. But the reality is we have 20-30 million illegal immigrants here and no real solutions. This type of solution would do a few things...one...encourage them to come forward, two, address the problem in a realsitic manner, and three it would quite possibly create some very solid contributors to our country.

Perfect in and of itself? I dont know enough about the specific legislation to say...but some type of a solution along these lines is going to HAVE to be found.

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I agree, especially with the part about Harry Reid. They also put the Don't ask don't tell, in there.
One thing I would love to see changed is this kind of crap stopped.
These things should be debated and voted on individually.
Then they need to be put online for all to see for 5 days before they are signed into law.
I think the Rep. are going to have something like that in their Contract with America to be released tomorrow.

We really do need Immigration reform, but it needs to be discussed and discussed thoroughly. We don't need the likes of Harry Reid or anyone else writing something up and sticking it in another bill. It's just too important.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Your Star said:

It's a practical way of dealing with the problem of illegal immigration, and it would help our country.

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How would more illegal immigration help this country? A practical way of dealing with illegal immigration is to discourage illegal immigration which is follow Oklahoma and Arizona's example.

We also need to make it easier to come in legally so that programs like this won't even be needed much.

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I disagree. There should be standards like passing a health screening, criminal back ground check, must be able to provide for him or herself, come here and stay here legally, know english or be in the process of learning english, must swear loyalty only to the US in other words no dual citizenship, not be affiliated with any terrorist or anti-American groups, and must accept and honor all our constitutional rights.

Barbbtx said:

We really do need Immigration reform, but it needs to be discussed and discussed thoroughly. We don't need the likes of Harry Reid or anyone else writing something up and sticking it in another bill. It's just too important.

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They deliberately stuck those things in because they did not want those things to pass. While at the same time they can claim they tried to pass it and put blame it on others for it not passing.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

VanceMack said:

There are some MAJOR probelms with the 'just kick em out' strategy.
1-Never will you get enough political support to make it happen, so nothing will change
2-You will spend GAZILLIONS in arresting, housing, trying, legal challenges, appeals, and lose.
3-Nothing long term will change.

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That's like saying we ought to allow murder because we'll never eradicate it entirely. One of the jobs of the government is to enforce the laws, period. Whether or not we'll ever run out of laws that need enforcement is irrelevant, so long as people are violating the laws of this nation, those laws need to be enforced, whether against one person or against millions.

Re: Do You SUpport the DREAM Act?

Cephus said:

That's like saying we ought to allow murder because we'll never eradicate it entirely. One of the jobs of the government is to enforce the laws, period. Whether or not we'll ever run out of laws that need enforcement is irrelevant, so long as people are violating the laws of this nation, those laws need to be enforced, whether against one person or against millions.

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It is inane to equate the two crimes. We dont treat them equally in our enforcement currently, do we? I havent suggested ignoring the problem, I have suggested a reasonable and rational and realistic solution that might actually work.