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Are you going to burn a Koran?

Are you going to burn a Koran?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 6.8%

  • No

    Votes: 68 93.2%
  • Total voters
    73
Ikari said:
And thus are you willing to go to a hostile country and preach your beliefs knowing that it is your death?
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Well, I'm not religious. However, I have spent years working in dangerous crime-infested gang neighborhoods trying to reduce gang-related violence. I went to work every day knowing that I could die doing my job, and being willing to take that risk. I still have days where I work in dangerous areas, and where I am willing to take those kinds of risks to do what I believe is necessary. So, I understand a little bit about taking risks for changes that matter to me.

BTW, what freedoms of mine are currently being protected by our actions in the ME? Mine are secure, we fight not for the freedom and liberty of America.
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You know I think we should GTFO of the ME today, and let them stew in their own self-created misery. This is also why I support cutting off corporate welfare for petroleum. We need to stop supporting these regimes.
 
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VanceMack said:
Can...have...and you are becoming just as annoying as the very ferocious, snippy, yappy little mutt.

"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."

Kabul resident, Rajab Ali said, "If this (burning of the Quran) happens there will be chaos in Afghanistan, and being a Muslim, if we don't defend the Quran then what else we can do?"

Thats from one story of about 100. Is it going to happen? Yeah...almost certainly Muslim extremists out there in the world will cause others to pay for his cowardice.
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I'll take the risk if it means upholding the free exercise of our rights and liberties in America. But it's pretty piss poor blaming the actions of terrorists on this one dumbass. People are responsible for their own actions, not the actions of others.
 
Ikari said:
I'll take the risk if it means upholding the free exercise of our rights and liberties in America. But it's pretty piss poor blaming the actions of terrorists on this one dumbass. People are responsible for their own actions, not the actions of others.
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True. But this guy needs to be called out on his own hypocrisy. It's not because of his actions that he has the right to do what he's doing. In fact, I suspect that if he were calling the shots, he'd create a sort of fascism that make sharia law look like a cake walk. It's not like this guy is any great supporter of the rule of law.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Well, I'm not religious. However, I have spent years working in dangerous crime-infested gang neighborhoods trying to reduce gang-related violence. So, I understand a little bit about taking risks for changes that matter to me.
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Well very good. Would you do so in another country? One very hostile to your intervention? That's the scenario being discussed. As I said, in this country it's different because this is where we live and what we deal with daily. Making risks to enact improvement is worthwhile here, but would you risk it for something else? Something guaranteed to cost your life?

Catz Part Deux said:
You know I think we should GTFO of the ME today, and let them stew in their own self-created misery. This is also why I support cutting off corporate welfare for petroleum. We need to stop supporting these regimes.
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And I agree with that as well. It's not our job to fix the problems of the world, and our military should act in defense of our liberty and our freedom and our sovereignty alone.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
You could take this into a discussion which said only the military would be allowed freedoms as only they were prepared to shed blood for those freedoms. That certainly wasn't my thinking when I signed up as a young man. I regret that others will pay for this preacher's actions but on the other hand his actions and the blood of those who shed blood to allow such actions shows that our societies operate to higher ideals.

Not sure if I'm getting across what I mean properly.
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You were very clear and concise. I just have zero respect for this man. He's all show and no real substance in his convictions.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I don't want to derail the thread but some of us signed up to help protect the freedom of others, it went with the territory.

You could take this into a discussion which said only the military would be allowed freedoms as only they were prepared to shed blood for those freedoms. That certainly wasn't my thinking when I signed up as a young man. I regret that others will pay for this preacher's actions but on the other hand his actions and the blood of those who shed blood to allow such actions shows that our societies operate to higher ideals.

Not sure if I'm getting across what I mean properly.
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Before the queen of cartoon porn decided to make this a personal issue, no one suggested this assclown of a preacher didnt have the RIGHT to do what he intends to do. SINCE the queen of cartoon porn made it a personal issue...STILL no one has suggested he didnt have a RIGHT to do what he intends to do. What I HAVE said is that if he truly believes in his behavior then he shouldn t do it from home...he should do it where his message might have a real impact. Oh...sure...he MIGHT put himself at risk...but then...he IS putting others at risk.
 
No. It's in poor taste just like burning flags and bibles.
I hope the nut gets zero media coverage of the event. It's too late to avoid any coverage at all. It's all over the news.
 
Ikari said:
Well very good. Would you do so in another country? One very hostile to your intervention? That's the scenario being discussed. As I said, in this country it's different because this is where we live and what we deal with daily. Making risks to enact improvement is worthwhile here, but would you risk it for something else? Something guaranteed to cost your life?
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I've had clients who were extremely hostile to my work IN THIS COUNTRY, including 2 who directly threatened to kill me.

And I agree with that as well. It's not our job to fix the problems of the world, and our military should act in defense of our liberty and our freedom and our sovereignty alone.
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I wonder when we'll figure out that we simply can't afford to be the world's police force.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
True. But this guy needs to be called out on his own hypocrisy. It's not because of his actions that he has the right to do what he's doing. In fact, I suspect that if he were calling the shots, he'd create a sort of fascism that make sharia law look like a cake walk. It's not like this guy is any great supporter of the rule of law.
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Nope, he sure ain't. But he is an American citizen with all the rights and liberties contained within. He's being a dumbass, and if people want to be proded by dumbasses; that's their problem. If it somehow comes back on us, it's not his fault because he exercised his rights; it's the fault of the people who responded to it.
 
Ikari said:
I'll take the risk if it means upholding the free exercise of our rights and liberties in America. But it's pretty piss poor blaming the actions of terrorists on this one dumbass. People are responsible for their own actions, not the actions of others.
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No...you WONT take the risk. You will sit safe and snug in your little home playing video games. OTHERS will take the risk FOR this pathetic asshole.
 
Ikari said:
Nope, he sure ain't. But he is an American citizen with all the rights and liberties contained within. He's being a dumbass, and if people want to be proded by dumbasses; that's their problem. If it somehow comes back on us, it's not his fault because he exercised his rights; it's the fault of the people who responded to it.
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I think that what Vance is saying is that his gesture is a completely empty one, and that we know this because he is unwilling to take any risks personally.

Thus, he has zero credibility.

Does he have the right to act like a classless douchebag? Of course he does. But, those of us who are observing his actions have a right to comment on how hollow and self-serving they are.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I've had clients who were extremely hostile to my work IN THIS COUNTRY, including 2 who directly threatened to kill me.
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Yet you live, thankfully so, thus death wasn't guaranteed but threatened. But what about in another country where it is, that's the scenario and question at hand. Must you voluntarily die in a land not your own for your conviction to prove your resolve?

Catz Part Deux said:
I wonder when we'll figure out that we simply can't afford to be the world's police force.
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I doubt it. We seem to like mucking around in other people's business.
 
Ikari said:
Yet you live, thankfully so, thus death wasn't guaranteed but threatened. But what about in another country where it is, that's the scenario and question at hand. Must you voluntarily die in a land not your own for your conviction to prove your resolve?
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No, but in this case, this guy's flamboyant gesture costs him nothing and is completely self-serving. Thus, he's trash.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I think that what Vance is saying is that his gesture is a completely empty one, and that we know this because he is unwilling to take any risks personally.
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It's not because he won't go to SA or something to preach that we know his gesture is completely empty. It's because we can see this as a media ploy, a cry of attention, and a dumbass action which does nothing with bridging religions or community. (As I recall, he's supposed to be part of some hippie, let's all get along organization) The action itself is suspect, not the resolve.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
No, but in this case, this guy's flamboyant gesture costs him nothing and is completely self-serving. Thus, he's trash.
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Precisely. It's not that he's trash because he won't preach in areas which will guarantee his death; but rather because he himself is a dumbass.

On a personal note, I think it's really awesome that you worked in crime infested areas to help decrease gang violence.
 
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Ikari said:
It's not because he won't go to SA or something to preach that we know his gesture is completely empty. It's because we can see this as a media ploy, a cry of attention, and a dumbass action which does nothing with bridging religions or community. (As I recall, he's supposed to be part of some hippie, let's all get along organization) The action itself is suspect, not the resolve.
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The action and the resolve are both suspect.

This is a pastor. Thus, he would know about this passage:

1 Chr. 21:21 through 1 Chr. 21:24 (NKJV) 21So David came to Ornan, and Ornan looked and saw David. And he went out from the threshing floor, and bowed before David with his face to the ground. 22Then David said to Ornan, "Grant me the place of this threshing floor, that I may build an altar on it to the LORD. You shall grant it to me at the full price, that the plague may be withdrawn from the people."

23But Ornan said to David, "Take it to yourself, and let my lord the king do what is good in his eyes. Look, I also give you the oxen for burnt offerings, the threshing implements for wood, and the wheat for the grain offering; I give it all."

24Then King David said to Ornan, "No, but I will surely buy it for the full price, for I will not take what is yours for the LORD, nor offer burnt offerings with that which costs me nothing."
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That's exactly what this man is doing...offering someone else's sacrifice to the Lord, and expecting to be rewarded for it.

Karma is such a bitch sometimes.
 
Ikari said:
On a personal note, I think it's really awesome that you worked in crime infested areas to help decrease gang violence.
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I'm not going to lie, it was a great job. I used to be amazed that I got paid for doing it.
 
Redress said:
I am a liberal. What do I need with burning the Koran when I got the Constitution and flag to burn?
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This is exactly my point. Are we such a people that we feel that celebrating our freedoms means that we have to **** on the beliefs of others? Or that we have to celebrate the disrespect of foreign cultures in the name of individual liberty? Have we evolved as far as to mask absolute disrespect as a civilized right?

It's a joke. And we are evolving into a joke.
 
MSgt said:
This is exactly my point. Are we such a people that we feel that celebrating our freedoms means that we have to **** on the beliefs of others? Or that we have to celebrate the disrespect of foreign cultures in the name of individual liberty? Have we evolved as far as to mask absolute disrespect as a civilized right?

It's a joke. And we are evolving into a joke.
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Well - there is a difference between "something being a right" - and then "legitimizing that right"
(someone made this same argument in a thread concerning prostittuion legalization I think).

Like - burning the flag is a protected right - but it's not a legitimate act. The majority (and overwhelming majority) are against the action - but it's still protected by our 1st.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Well - there is a difference between "something being a right" - and then "legitimizing that right"
(someone made this same argument in a thread concerning prostittuion legalization I think).

Like - burning the flag is a protected right - but it's not a legitimate act. The majority (and overwhelming majority) are against the action - but it's still protected by our 1st.
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The funny thing is that I wear a uniform that protects these senseless rights. Funnier still is that I believe in a benevolent dictator that knows when too much liberty damages a civilization.

I don't care the argument people may present before me (because i have the tendency to turn a few heads with my opinions). Because an organized burning of Qu'rans will undoubtedly place our troops in unnecesssary danger, it is treasonous. Because a backwoods/hick nothing Christian church decides that burning books will make them feel good about their hate, a mother and father will somewhere get to bury their dead Army or Marine son. **** their "rights" and their local ignorant church.

Ironic how I am supposed to hate the Islamic extremist, but respect the rights of the Christian extremist.
 
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MSgt said:
The funny thing is that I wear a uniform that protects these senseless rights. Funnier still is that I believe in a benevolent dictator that knows when too much liberty damages a civilization.

I don't care the argument people may present before me (because i have the tendency to turn a few heads with my opinions). Because an organized burning of Qu'rans will undoubtedly place our troops in unnecesssary danger, it is treasonous. Because a backwoods/hick nothing Christian church decides that burning books will make them feel good about their hate, a mother and father will somewhere get to bury their dead Army or Marine son. **** their "rights" and their local ignorant church.

Ironic how I am supposed to hate the Islamic extremist, but respect the rights of the Christian extremist.
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Yeah, I agree with you. I still believe it does/will.

Everyone has a different view - a different angle - for different reasons.
 
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