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Does America Need Tariffs on US Corporations?

Should there be Tariffs?


  • Total voters
    35
To the individuals, in the thread who want to use economic theory to make us understand the benefits of the current American Trade Policy. SO! One cannot simply ignore the immediate consequences of Higher unemployment and the fact that government is replacing the private sector very quickly to fill the things it used to do. 1. Job Fairs-Usually held or hosted by the state or local employment agencies. Used to be when there was hiring to be done it was done by the Companies with no government involvement.2. Economic Development Committees- Local government used to handle that. Now its under state control -State governments now control the economic make up of an area saying where they will spend their resources and manipulating tax dollars to do so .
3. EMPLOYEE training now handled thru the state employment agencies for the companies.Example A company in our area needed employees;the requirements were an emphasis on basic computer skills- The local Employment office Did the training for the employer( No CHARGE)
4.Because government has artificially inflated their role in the free market you dont see the true measure of the free trade debacle locally.5. Cheaper Goods- Based on a model that says our economy would grow at X% annually goods produced here would be alot more expensive. Not true the goods and services would cost what the market could bare. Rents and labor are closely tied to wages - and may not change much over a generation. . People are making $8 / hr because of the governments artificial ceiling of Minimum wage ; but if not for that wages would have dropped a lot more. Labor is less in demand here because of loss of manufacturing. POINT IS The government has replaced sectors of our former free market. The reason they did it is; because there is no support for alot of the things they are doing in the private sector. I will stop here and write the rest as a blog. Thank you b.larset.
 
To the individuals, in the thread who want to use economic theory to make us understand the benefits of the current American Trade Policy. SO! One cannot simply ignore the immediate consequences of Higher unemployment and the fact that government is replacing the private sector very quickly to fill the things it used to do. 1. Job Fairs-Usually held or hosted by the state or local employment agencies. Used to be when there was hiring to be done it was done by the Companies with no government involvement.2. Economic Development Committees- Local government used to handle that. Now its under state control -State governments now control the economic make up of an area saying where they will spend their resources and manipulating tax dollars to do so .
3. EMPLOYEE training now handled thru the state employment agencies for the companies.Example A company in our area needed employees;the requirements were an emphasis on basic computer skills- The local Employment office Did the training for the employer( No CHARGE)
4.Because government has artificially inflated their role in the free market you dont see the true measure of the free trade debacle locally.5. Cheaper Goods- Based on a model that says our economy would grow at X% annually goods produced here would be alot more expensive. Not true the goods and services would cost what the market could bare. Rents and labor are closely tied to wages - and may not change much over a generation. . People are making $8 / hr because of the governments artificial ceiling of Minimum wage ; but if not for that wages would have dropped a lot more. Labor is less in demand here because of loss of manufacturing. POINT IS The government has replaced sectors of our former free market. The reason they did it is; because there is no support for alot of the things they are doing in the private sector. I will stop here and write the rest as a blog. Thank you b.larset.

One thing you have to understand first, the U.S. does not engage in actual international free trade.
Doesn't happen.
So the question from that would follow, is it really free trade that has hurt us?

2. Does the efficient allocation of resources hurt people?
I'd say no, tractors, computers, cheaper labor all allow us to take advantage of more free time.
Like we do here discussing these things.

3. As Goldenboy pointed out, most Americans have no real understanding of how much their lives have been improved by this efficient application of resources.
Before, you may have a couple of day light hours left to rest, now most people have a ton.
Not only that but it allows you to pursue other financial incentives.
 
I understand about technology making our lives easier. As for the benefit of free trade I want my manufacturing back, I want technology dominance and economic security. I want an America that is in the best possible position to lead a world with strength thru fairness.
 
Bottom Line..... should the US government provide heavy tariffs to US companies when they do outsource their jobs to another country?
Should there be heavy tariffs on MOST imported products?

Nope, only higher taxes on the US manufacturers who profit from it.

ricksfolly
 
Free trade is a level playing field.
There are no artificial barriers of trade.

Those who outsource are a greater advantage than those who do not. So it is not level. Its like giving one duelist a plastic pellet gun and the other real gun and calling a level playing field.


That assumes that the cheap labor is bad.

It is if that cheap labor is over seas,ensures that America does not produce its own goods and costs Americans their job as a result.

You may think that someone working in a sweatshop is being exploited because you're viewing it from an American perspective.

The if they do not know they are slaves then are they really slaves logic.

If you take that job away from them and they starve to death who have you helped?

I could care less about some foreigner. Besides that they did not have those jobs before outsourcing.
Tariffs only make a consumer pay more for an item than they would have otherwise.

Like what an extra 50 cents or a buck or two?
 
I agree with you 100%....I still think you are sounding like a Democrat ;-)

Wasn't it a democrat president who gave us NAFTA & WTO? Seems to me the republicans who pretend they are patriotic while supporting outsourcing and globalization are the ones acting like democrats.
 
I understand about technology making our lives easier. As for the benefit of free trade I want my manufacturing back, I want technology dominance and economic security. I want an America that is in the best possible position to lead a world with strength thru fairness.

So only manufacturing produces wealth? Then why do you tip your waiter for the work he has done?
 
Wasn't it a democrat president who gave us NAFTA & WTO? Seems to me the republicans who pretend they are patriotic while supporting outsourcing and globalization are the ones acting like democrats.

Unfortunately....yes it was. However, Clinton, in many ways was way to moderate. If you follow the tenants of the Democratic party, NAFTA would not have been passed and the bailouts....those are both much more in line with the GOP than the DNC.
 
The if they do not know they are slaves then are they really slaves logic.

In a sense, everyone who works for a boss is a slave, no matter which country or how much the pay. You can always quit, but you'll still be a slave on the next job.

ricksfolly
 
In a sense, everyone who works for a boss is a slave, no matter which country or how much the pay. You can always quit, but you'll still be a slave on the next job.

ricksfolly

In other words, a voluntary slave. :roll:
 
In other words, a voluntary slave. :roll:

A slave to the notion that life MUST be lived according to various standards.

Those standars being:
Internet access
Telephones - more importantly - a cell phone
Cable or Satellite TV
Cars and auto related things like maintenance and so forth.
Food - lots of it - because we're all very fat and need to maintain our tubby tummies.
Clothes - new ones every year, shoes too.
A decent house - mortgage
Or a decent house / appartment - rent.

You know - this is where people feel they MUST put their money and their decision to have some or all of these things, and more, is the reason why they work.

If someone didn't want ANY of those things - they could live without being gainfully employed.

People are purely slaves to their selves and their perception of society and waht society wants them to be. . . nothing more, no one else.
 
What happens away from your job has nothing to with how your boss treats you.

ricksfolly

If a boss is a dick then why do people put up with it?
There are quite a few means of dealing with such tripe - rules and regulations that help protect the employee. No one is every forced to tolerate someone else's ****. . . they just think they are or feel they're compelled to because something else is at stake.

I've never had a dick for a boss - I've always gotten along with my managers and employees. . . so I don't draw the conclusion that all bosses are assholes.

Not saying that boss' aren't assholes and don't get away with it - of course some are and some do. But most don't.
 
A slave to the notion that life MUST be lived according to various standards.

Those standars being:
Internet access
Telephones - more importantly - a cell phone
Cable or Satellite TV
Cars and auto related things like maintenance and so forth.
Food - lots of it - because we're all very fat and need to maintain our tubby tummies.
Clothes - new ones every year, shoes too.
A decent house - mortgage
Or a decent house / appartment - rent.

You know - this is where people feel they MUST put their money and their decision to have some or all of these things, and more, is the reason why they work.

If someone didn't want ANY of those things - they could live without being gainfully employed.

People are purely slaves to their selves and their perception of society and waht society wants them to be. . . nothing more, no one else.

This is definitely representative of the 1st world.
Thanks x2.
 
Those who outsource are a greater advantage than those who do not. So it is not level. Its like giving one duelist a plastic pellet gun and the other real gun and calling a level playing field.

If money only flows one way, you'd be right.
The Chinese and other countries don't take those American dollars and bury or burn them.
They spend them on the things we do here, technology, development and services.
Among other things.

It is if that cheap labor is over seas,ensures that America does not produce its own goods and costs Americans their job as a result.

Some goods are made overseas but I guarantee you that whoever makes our stuff, won't want to fight with us.
They lose money if they do.

The if they do not know they are slaves then are they really slaves logic.

Better to be a live "slave" than a dead "slave."

You're viewing there standard of living through your bias.
Everyone in the world can not live like an American can.
There isn't enough energy and stuff.

I could care less about some foreigner. Besides that they did not have those jobs before outsourcing.

What's the difference between a foreign person and an American, besides nationality?
What if the American who lost his/her job, is a criminal?
What if the foreign person is the father of a child who creates a cure for cancer?


Like what an extra 50 cents or a buck or two?

Multiply that by millions of items and our standard of living declines because we can't afford to buy as much as we used to.
 
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Uh, America is still the largest manufacturer in the world. What people mistake for the death of manufacturing is really the death of labor intensive manufacturing.

Foreign Trade: Data - Historical Series

Replacing 50 workers with 2 workers running automated machines to produce more goods does not equate to less manufacturing.
 
Uh, America is still the largest manufacturer in the world. What people mistake for the death of manufacturing is really the death of labor intensive manufacturing.

Foreign Trade: Data - Historical Series

Replacing 50 workers with 2 workers running automated machines to produce more goods does not equate to less manufacturing.

Thank you sir.
I have watched this first hand, at my place of employment.
 
Uh, America is still the largest manufacturer in the world. What people mistake for the death of manufacturing is really the death of labor intensive manufacturing.

Foreign Trade: Data - Historical Series

Replacing 50 workers with 2 workers running automated machines to produce more goods does not equate to less manufacturing.

This is very true!
And the driving power behind those innovations is *saving money.* The less people you employ, pay, provide benefits for the better off the employer is. . . that's the employer's bottom line.

The real problem, then, is:
1) When companies over-exceed their market as far as production goes - leading to a push to sell sell sell, buy buy buy (auto industry comes to mind) to maintain that business flow,
2) If people (for a variety of reasons) stop buying those excessive products,
3) Then the companies have to adjust to that drop in purchases by slowing or stopping production and other cutbacks.

This lull in production - if it happens quickly or is maintained for a while - is the problem.

Oh, gee, what's that called?
My my - a recession.
 
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the way to 'save jobs' - if one wishes to make the labor market more attractive here in the States - is to reduce the regulation and costs associated with doing business here, not increase them.
 
If a boss is a dick then why do people put up with it?
There are quite a few means of dealing with such tripe - rules and regulations that help protect the employee. No one is every forced to tolerate someone else's ****. . . they just think they are or feel they're compelled to because something else is at stake.

I've never had a dick for a boss - I've always gotten along with my managers and employees. . . so I don't draw the conclusion that all bosses are assholes.

Not saying that boss' aren't assholes and don't get away with it - of course some are and some do. But most don't.

The point was about workers being slaves to bosses, not how the bosses treat workers. I agree that some bosses can be dicks and some can be sweeties, but they are still bosses with the power to shape lives... They who must be obeyed...

ricksfolly
 
the way to 'save jobs' - if one wishes to make the labor market more attractive here in the States - is to reduce the regulation and costs associated with doing business here, not increase them.

I agree that strictly enforced regulations can hurt most business, but knowing that most business can't be trusted to do the right thing, you can't let them completely off the hook. So the only thing the government can do to keep them in line, is to give them the impression they are being watched with unscheduled spot check audits, leave them with the constant fear of being caught.

Years ago the very mention of "bank examiner" made bank owners quake in their boots.

ricksfolly

ricksfolly
 
the way to 'save jobs' - if one wishes to make the labor market more attractive here in the States - is to reduce the regulation and costs associated with doing business here, not increase them.

Eh. Not really. There's no way we are going to get Americans to work for $5 a day. Nor could anyone live on that. The better way is to simply accept the economic model of progress and innovate. Cheap labor in America is done. Just as the colonists started taking the shovel market from England, South East Asia has taken cheap manufacturing from us. Accept evolution or die.
 
The point was about workers being slaves to bosses, not how the bosses treat workers. I agree that some bosses can be dicks and some can be sweeties, but they are still bosses with the power to shape lives... They who must be obeyed...

ricksfolly

This was your statement:
What happens away from your job has nothing to with how your boss treats you.

And that netted my reply.

Work is voluntary - believe it or not - it's purely up the individual's choices in life (where to work, what vehicle to buy, how to live, what to eat) that determines how much money they need - which in turn pins them into a particular self-inflicted constraint.

Your boss' attitude has nothing to do with it.

If you're talking about government, the presidency, taxes - just say so and stop beating around the bush.
 
Eh. Not really. There's no way we are going to get Americans to work for $5 a day. Nor could anyone live on that. The better way is to simply accept the economic model of progress and innovate. Cheap labor in America is done. Just as the colonists started taking the shovel market from England, South East Asia has taken cheap manufacturing from us. Accept evolution or die.

oh the crappy jobs i have no problem with losing; but as you yourself point out; the synergy from labor and machine has made it possible for fewer people to produce more. there is no reason they shouldn't be doing so right here in the US. when everything is computerized, you want workers comfortable with and raised around computers.
 
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