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What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit to?

What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit to?

  • Total voters
    41
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

jallman said:
I am not doing anything to stop them from doing just that. All I am doing is trying to weed through job candidates to find the best one for my purposes. And since their pay comes out of my budget, I am going to use every means available to find the very best of the best. :shrug:



Well see, here's the thing...I wouldn't even take note of a possession charge older than 3 years on a person's background check. An assault charge, however, is a deal breaker especially if it's in concert with domestic violence (I might reconsider if it was a REALLY old charge and it was a bar fight situation). Any kind of sexual offense is going to find their file in the trash; I don't care if it was just urinating in public. It's too much of a liability to hire someone who has that kind of record if something were to happen while they were at work. It would immediately come back on our organization that we knew he was a sex offender. You can blame the litigious nature of our society for that one, not the background check.

It's not my concern how society treats a candidate. It's my concern to pick the best candidate possible while considering things like liability issues. Criminal background checks will ALWAYS be done as long as I am in charge at work.
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So milquetoast and wallflowers are the best of the best? Hardly, they're job security people. The don't share knowledge at work, and they're scared to death to try something new and different. I'd hire the more 'colorful' people if I were you. Innovation is often the key to greater company success.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Mickey Shane said:
So milquetoast and wallflowers are the best of the best? Hardly, they're job security people. The don't share knowledge at work, and they're scared to death to try something new and different. I'd hire the more 'colorful' people if I were you. Innovation is often the key to greater company success.
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Criminality =/= innovation.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Tucker Case said:
Are you talking about charges or convictions?
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Convictions. I am a firm believer that if the justice system couldnt convict you, neither should I.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Mickey Shane said:
So milquetoast and wallflowers are the best of the best? Hardly, they're job security people. The don't share knowledge at work, and they're scared to death to try something new and different. I'd hire the more 'colorful' people if I were you. Innovation is often the key to greater company success.
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Colorful personalities abound within our organization. None of those colors are the prison jumpsuit orange variety and never will be. It makes me wonder what kind of life you lead if you think law abiding citizens have to be "milquetoast and wallflowers". :shrug:
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Mickey Shane said:
So milquetoast and wallflowers are the best of the best? Hardly, they're job security people. The don't share knowledge at work, and they're scared to death to try something new and different. I'd hire the more 'colorful' people if I were you. Innovation is often the key to greater company success.
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WTF?

I work with four software developers who don't have criminal records. One of them is a roller derby gal who is also a scuba diver. Another one is a drummer in a band and actually just got back from 2 weeks of touring with them. A third one wanders around here from time to time with Mickey Mouse feet and hands on just for ****s and giggles. He was also at the same Dead concert I was at in '95 right before Jerry died. Our project manager is an Irishman (need I really say more? ;) ) And then there's me. I'd say we're a pretty damn 'colorful' bunch, hardly wallflowers but yet not ex-convicts.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

jallman said:
Convictions. I am a firm believer that if the justice system couldnt convict you, neither should I.
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Thanks. I wanted to clarify that becuase it would seem out of character for you if it was charges that mattered.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Tucker Case said:
The "Two parts hyperbole with a dash of 'because I said so' argument" isn't a particularly compelling one, to be honest.

It doesn't present a case for your vehemently held opinion in any way.

In truth, it damages your position because it makes it appear to have no legitimate logical basis.
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I enjoyed where you make others people mind up that I damagaed my position. :roll:
FURTHERMORE, you are focusing on what I said simply because you dont have anywhere to go with your discussion. You know what I said is rock solid so you cant attack that. You just stuck out your tounge and basically did a "I know what YOU are, but what am I" shuffle across the dance floor. ;)
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

jallman said:
The only thing I care about is a criminal background check. Once I pay you, I don't care what you do with the money so I don't care about your credit, I don't care what you do with your body away from work (just don't do it at work), and I don't care what you do or where you go.

I do care if you have a history of violent crime or sexual misconduct in a criminal way. Barring that, whatever. Do your job and we will get along fine.
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I agree with you. Drug Tests are acceptable if the job involves being around drugs or operating potentially dangerous equipment. And I think credit checks are okay for financial services workers.

Otherwise, I don't see how anything else should be an employers business.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

FilmFestGuy said:
I agree with you. Drug Tests are acceptable if the job involves being around drugs or operating potentially dangerous equipment. And I think credit checks are okay for financial services workers.

Otherwise, I don't see how anything else should be an employers business.
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I shall agree with you. And add that anyone that is around children have a psyc test done and a criminal background check.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Weird questions.
 
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Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

The Giant Noodle said:
I enjoyed where you make others people mind up that I damagaed my position. :roll:
FURTHERMORE, you are focusing on what I said simply because you dont have anywhere to go with your discussion. You know what I said is rock solid so you cant attack that. You just stuck out your tounge and basically did a "I know what YOU are, but what am I" shuffle across the dance floor. ;)
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What you said wasn't "rock solid" by any stretch. It was merely a vehemently held, but wholly unsubstantiated opinion.

There was nothing to refute in your post because there was nothing of substance contained within it. You are claiming that your opinion is fact when it isn't. Aside from pointing out that it is actually just your opinion and that you haven't even tried to support it with anything but more opinion, there is little I can do with it.

If you actually wish to discuss the topic, then you have to present a case of some sort for WHY you hold the opinion that these things are wrong. Simply saying "These things are WRONG!!!1111!!" isn't supporting that opinion. It's merely restating it.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Tucker Case said:
What you said wasn't "rock solid" by any stretch. It was merely a vehemently held, but wholly unsubstantiated opinion.

There was nothing to refute in your post because there was nothing of substance contained within it. You are claiming that your opinion is fact when it isn't. Aside from pointing out that it is actually just your opinion and that you haven't even tried to support it with anything but more opinion, there is little I can do with it.

If you actually wish to discuss the topic, then you have to present a case of some sort for WHY you hold the opinion that these things are wrong. Simply saying "These things are WRONG!!!1111!!" isn't supporting that opinion. It's merely restating it.
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I dont know how many OTHER ways to explain simple points that Im making. My freakin' CAT understands already. I dont want companies chosing anyone because of their personal finance, whether it be good or otherwise. *cat is nodding* *slipping sheet of seaweed to cat*
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

The Giant Noodle said:
I dont know how many OTHER ways to explain simple points that Im making. My freakin' CAT understands already. I dont want companies chosing anyone because of their personal finance, whether it be good or otherwise. *cat is nodding* *slipping sheet of seaweed to cat*
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Well when your cat takes up the responsibility of having to run a company, I will be inclined to take its opinion into consideration.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

jallman said:
The only thing I care about is a criminal background check. Once I pay you, I don't care what you do with the money so I don't care about your credit, I don't care what you do with your body away from work (just don't do it at work), and I don't care what you do or where you go.

I do care if you have a history of violent crime or sexual misconduct in a criminal way. Barring that, whatever. Do your job and we will get along fine.
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I believe in giving felons a second chance, but like you, not violent or sexual crimes.
I also picked drug testing. Not saying I wouldn't hire a pot smoker but I wouldn't hire an addict.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

jallman said:
Well when your cat takes up the responsibility of having to run a company, I will be inclined to take its opinion into consideration.
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Youre just mad you didnt get any seaweed :roll:

And I dont have to run a company to know when someone isnt being treated ethically, professioanlly or fairly based on their skills.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Barbbtx said:
I believe in giving felons a second chance, but like you, not violent or sexual crimes.
I also picked drug testing. Not saying I wouldn't hire a pot smoker but I wouldn't hire an addict.
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The good thing about that is that it doesn't take much to spot an addict. The work habits of an addict usually put them on the chopping block quicker than you can say "tweaker".
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

rivrrat said:
WTF?

I work with four software developers who don't have criminal records. One of them is a roller derby gal who is also a scuba diver. Another one is a drummer in a band and actually just got back from 2 weeks of touring with them. A third one wanders around here from time to time with Mickey Mouse feet and hands on just for ****s and giggles. He was also at the same Dead concert I was at in '95 right before Jerry died. Our project manager is an Irishman (need I really say more? ;) ) And then there's me. I'd say we're a pretty damn 'colorful' bunch, hardly wallflowers but yet not ex-convicts.
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I really like this post!

I mean come on, software geeks are stereotypically known for being the most introverted people on the planet. I fear that your co-workers might be telling you some tall tales. Except of course, the guy at the Grateful Dead concert. lolz!
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

jallman said:
Colorful personalities abound within our organization. None of those colors are the prison jumpsuit orange variety and never will be. It makes me wonder what kind of life you lead if you think law abiding citizens have to be "milquetoast and wallflowers". :shrug:
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I didn't say that milquetoast and wallflowers applied to all law abiding citizens. I was simply noting that that is what you would have left if all of the employment checks listed in the OP were applied.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Companies should be allowed by law to filter their employees how they see fit.

Having said that, testing for drugs but not alcohol or speeding tickets is hypocritical. Especially since most hard drugs are out of the system in a couple of days so you won't even detect them anyway.

If you're concerned about people being intoxicated then you should test for alcohol as well, and for the same reason.

If you're concerned about the person's respect for the law, then you should check for speeding and parking tickets as well, and for the same reason.

Otherwise you're a damn hypocrite.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

(please delete me)
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Mickey Shane said:
I didn't say that milquetoast and wallflowers applied to all law abiding citizens. I was simply noting that that is what you would have left if all of the employment checks listed in the OP were applied.
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Not even close to accurate....
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Binary_Digit said:
Companies should be allowed by law to filter their employees how they see fit.

Having said that, testing for drugs but not alcohol or speeding tickets is hypocritical. Especially since most hard drugs are out of the system in a couple of days so you won't even detect them anyway.

If you're concerned about people being intoxicated then you should test for alcohol as well, and for the same reason.

If you're concerned about the person's respect for the law, then you should check for speeding and parking tickets as well, and for the same reason.

Otherwise you're a damn hypocrite.
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I do check for traffic violations for positions that drive on the job.

Alcohol is legal. Cocaine is not. I am not going to enforce prohibitions on my guys that the government doesn't. There's nothing hypocritical about it.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

Mickey Shane said:
I really like this post!

I mean come on, software geeks are stereotypically known for being the most introverted people on the planet. I fear that your co-workers might be telling you some tall tales. Except of course, the guy at the Grateful Dead concert. lolz!
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Stereotypically, yes. But it's been my experience as a "software geek", that said stereotype is just that: A stereotype with only a fragment of the "software geeks" fitting said description.

My point was that I have had most of the aforementioned pre-employment checks (drug tests, credit checks, background checks, criminal record checks, etc) and I'm hardly what one would call a wallflower. Additionally, I have worked with a number of other software folks who have had the same checks and they were also not what people would call wallflowers.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

The Giant Noodle said:
I dont know how many OTHER ways to explain simple points that Im making. My freakin' CAT understands already. I dont want companies chosing anyone because of their personal finance, whether it be good or otherwise. *cat is nodding* *slipping sheet of seaweed to cat*
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The part in bold has been totally understood. That is your opinion on the matter, and you are free to have that opinion.

But the simple fact that you hold that opinion is not enough to make the claim that it is the correct opinion and dissenting opinions are "wrong". In such instances, something must be presented to defend the veracity of said opinion and to show the falsehood of the dissenting opinion. One must either present a logical argument in favor of the opinion or some sort of fact-based evidence which supports that opinion over the other one. Repeatedly saying "I'm right and you're wrong" doesn't do that, and offers nothing worthy of rebuttal.
 
Re: What should an employer be able to have an employee or potential employee submit

jallman said:
I do check for traffic violations for positions that drive on the job.
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If the position requires driving, do you also test for alcohol use? Why not? They might drive while drunk on the job. I mean, that's the exact same reasoning you use to justify drug testing isn't it? OMG they might get stoned on the job!1!11 So where's the test for alcohol use? If you think you need to know whether they smoked a joint over a week ago, why wouldn't you need to know that they drank a 12-pack last weekend also??

jallman said:
Alcohol is legal. Cocaine is not.
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So what? It's not your job to enforce the laws. You might say you care about a perspective employee's respect for the law, but of course that goes out the window if you don't also check for driving violations (even if the position doesn't require driving). If you care about recreational habits but you don't care about other ways they break the law, you're a hypocrite. The point still stands.
 
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