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Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & daycares

Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuary schools & daycare

  • Total voters
    64
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

X Factor said:
As you think back, was it really a "decent number" or only a couple who posted a lot? I don't doubt what you say either way. It was never my argument though. Does it really make a difference? It seems pretty apparent that those who support mosque don't see any argument against it as being legit.
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It was a decent number
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

X Factor said:
Suggesting that Catholics shouldn't be allowed around "elementuary" schools (is that where people go to learn the basics of running a mortuary? :D) and day cares is pretty inflammatory, and I'm not even Catholic.
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No it's not. It's certainly silly and has no real basis for consideration. But it's not inflammatory.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

Ikari said:
No it's not. It's certainly silly and has no real basis for consideration. But it's not inflammatory.
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Really? I know a few atheists that are inflamed my much, much less than the suggestion that they're all potential child molesters.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

While most diocese have taken very strong step to protect children, public schools don't appear to have done much. There is much greater public awareness, however, so it is possible that public school are safer today than they where 40 years ago, but I have not seen evidence of it. Information is hard to find on the safety improvement of public schools. Other research, though, shows that even at that time priest were rarely abusive compared to others, and now are very much less likely to abuse, as in less than 1/10th as likely. So, the reality is, that Catholic schools were probably safer 40 years ago, and are certainly safer today. Yes, this is a tragic shadow in the history of the Church. Moving on, we should keep awareness up without slandering the Church so that the public school eventually come around, afterall, lawsuits aren't as lucrative.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

X Factor said:
Really? I know a few atheists that are inflamed my much, much less than the suggestion that they're all potential child molesters.
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I don't. Certainly they cannot deny the problems that they've had. But the general statement itself carries so little weight to it, that I would not find it inflammatory. It's a stupid statement and nothing more. Not worth wasting one's emotions on.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

X Factor said:
Really? I know a few atheists that are inflamed my much, much less than the suggestion that they're all potential child molesters.
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There's no evidence that any significant percentage of atheists are child molestors. That's not true of Catholic priests. We have lots and lots of evidence that statistically significant numbers of Catholic priests can and do molest children. Not all by any means, not even most, but far, far too many.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

JMJ said:
While most diocese have taken very strong step to protect children, public schools don't appear to have done much. There is much greater public awareness, however, so it is possible that public school are safer today than they where 40 years ago, but I have not seen evidence of it. Information is hard to find on the safety improvement of public schools. Other research, though, shows that even at that time priest were rarely abusive compared to others, and now are very much less likely to abuse, as in less than 1/10th as likely. So, the reality is, that Catholic schools were probably safer 40 years ago, and are certainly safer today. Yes, this is a tragic shadow in the history of the Church. Moving on, we should keep awareness up without slandering the Church so that the public school eventually come around, afterall, lawsuits aren't as lucrative.
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Research? Research by whom? The catholic church? To my knowledge the only study with any weight dealing with this issue was the John Jay Report. John Jay College did a study using people who had reported molestation incidents. The study did nothing to show the actual size of the problem, how abusive priests were, or how rare the incidents actually were. Maybe you could show us the research? If anything the study showed that the church and in general the police departments had done little to actually stop the issue. They buried it deeply with the help of what I can only assume were catholic cops. What percentage of priests were prosecuted for child molestation? Single digit percentages. The catholic church did what it has done historically and rewrote history in order to avoid its skeletons and that "s" word catholic leaders hate so much. You know which one, "scandal".

It's almost sad that the Washington Post uses the John Jay Report and says this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/16/AR2010041602026.html

Sexual abuse of minors is not the province of the Catholic Church alone. About 4 percent of priests committed an act of sexual abuse on a minor between 1950 and 2002, according to a study being conducted by John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. That is roughly consistent with data on many similar professions.

An extensive 2007 investigation by the Associated Press showed that sexual abuse of children in U.S. schools was "widespread," and most of it was never reported or punished. And in Portland, Ore., last week, a jury reached a $1.4 million verdict against the Boy Scouts of America in a trial that showed that since the 1920s, Scouts officials kept "perversion files" on suspected abusers but kept them secret.
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That's not what the study says AT ALL. 4% is the number of priests who were reported. We do not actually know how many actually abused children because unlike robbery, murder unless the victim(s) step up, it's as if the crime never happened.
 
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Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

Hatuey said:
Research? Research by whom? The catholic church? To my knowledge the only study with any weight dealing with this issue was the John Jay Report. John Jay College did a study using people who had reported molestation incidents. The study did nothing to show the actual size of the problem, how abusive priests were, or how rare the incidents actually were. Maybe you could show us the research? If anything the study showed that the church and in general the police departments had done little to actually stop the issue. They buried it deeply with the help of what I can only assume were catholic cops. What percentage of priests were prosecuted for child molestation? Single digit percentages. The catholic church did what it has done historically and rewrote history in order to avoid its skeletons and that "s" word catholic leaders hate so much. You know which one, "scandal".
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AP: Sexual Misconduct Plagues US Schools
Priests Commit No More Abuse Than Other Males - The Daily Beast
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

Ikari said:
I don't. Certainly they cannot deny the problems that they've had. But the general statement itself carries so little weight to it, that I would not find it inflammatory. It's a stupid statement and nothing more. Not worth wasting one's emotions on.
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Cephus has kinda stepped on your point here, hasn't he? Obviously he took the suggestion that Catholics shouldn't be allowed around kids quite seriously...and also quite positively, I might add.

Cephus said:
There's no evidence that any significant percentage of atheists are child molestors. That's not true of Catholic priests. We have lots and lots of evidence that statistically significant numbers of Catholic priests can and do molest children. Not all by any means, not even most, but far, far too many.
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You completely missed what I was saying. I was not at all saying atheists are molesters, I was saying that several atheists become inflamed at far less than what has been said about Catholics here. BTW, note that the thread title is not limited to only priests, but rather all Catholics.

BTW, do you think there's a "statistically significant" percentage of Islamists who engage in terrorism?
 
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Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

Cephus said:
There's no evidence that any significant percentage of atheists are child molestors. That's not true of Catholic priests. We have lots and lots of evidence that statistically significant numbers of Catholic priests can and do molest children. Not all by any means, not even most, but far, far too many.
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Priests Commit No More Abuse Than Other Males - The Daily Beast
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

X Factor said:
Cephus has kinda stepped on your point here, hasn't he? Obviously he took the suggestion that Catholics shouldn't be allowed around kids quite seriously...and also quite positively, I might add.
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It's a free country, people can have what ever opinion they want. Statistics do not back what he says, so why would you care what he thinks?
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

mac said:
AP: Sexual Misconduct Plagues US Schools
Priests Commit No More Abuse Than Other Males - The Daily Beast
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Did you read the articles before posting them? Here I'll summarize: Both source the John Jay College study. Which as I've already explained, says NOTHING about how often abuse occurs. It's a study on victims who came forward. Here is the best part:

Most of the abuse never gets reported. Those cases reported often end with no action. Cases investigated sometimes can't be proven, and many abusers have several victims.
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Please learn to understand the articles you post as if you understand the methodology any more than they do? As I've stated earlier. There is simply NO research showing the extent of the abuse because most victims simply have not come forward.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

X Factor said:
Trust me, Mac, I know from experience, it does not matter what you can prove objectively, Hatuey will steadfastly refuse to see it.
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Eyo cookie, you following me around or what? You seem to like being smacked around upstairs and then reporting people. Still blowing CC's e-nuts for that admin position? Or did they finally tell you no? Never mind. Lolz "the dark side".
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

Hatuey said:
Did you read the articles before posting them? Here I'll summarize: Both source the John Jay College study. Which as I've already explained, says NOTHING about how often abuse occurs. It's a study on victims who came forward. Here is the best part:



Please learn to understand the articles you post as if you understand the methodology any more than they do? As I've stated earlier. There is simply NO research showing the extent of the abuse because most victims simply have not come forward.
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Read the next link. There were two links there. I'm sure you're bright enough to review all of the information...
 
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Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

X Factor said:
Trust me, Mac, I know from experience, it does not matter what you can prove objectively, Hatuey will steadfastly refuse to see it.
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I don't really give a crap about him, I just want as few people that read his posts as possible to buy off on it.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

Ikari said:
It's a free country, people can have what ever opinion they want. Statistics do not back what he says, so why would you care what he thinks?
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It goes to disprove your assertion that nobody could take the statement in this thread seriously, obviously several do and are only too happy to use it as an invitation to bash Catholics. Which is all fine, btw, but you cannot say that the thread is not inflammatory.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

mac said:
Read the next study. There was two links there. I'm sure you're bright enough to review all of the information...
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Okay, I'm not even sure how to spell this out for the methodologically ignorant: The studies conducted regard reported abuses. Do you know what that means? It doesn't mean that those were the only abuses that happened. It means that those are reported cases. Now to people who know how to read, that doesn't mean that this is how often abuse happens. It means that that is how many have been reported. As sexual abuse is one of the most under reported crimes, there is even less reason to conclude that only 4% of priests have actually abused kids. That last little bit? Yeah, both your articles make what I have said explicitly clear.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

The problem is the shortsightedness of the people who never question the public school system with the same harshness as the Catholic schools. There is essentially no incentive to sue a public school, and no reason, at all, to believe they are now safer or where ever safer than Catholic schools.

I understand that abuse occurred and it was bad, and there still is some abuse. I realize that even with the new system in Catholics schools, the system still isn't perfect. What about the new system in public schools? Oh, there isn't one...
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

X Factor said:
It goes to disprove your assertion that nobody could take the statement in this thread seriously, obviously several do and are only too happy to use it as an invitation to bash Catholics. Which is all fine, btw, but you cannot say that the thread is not inflammatory.
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I think you misunderstood. I said the comment is not inflammatory because it's worthless. Someone (and given enough people, you'll surely find at least one) may make the statement earnestly, but it's obviously false and cannot be supported by statistic. There's no reason to give such utter foolishness consideration, much less waste emotional response. It's a child's statement, easily dismissed as such. Just because someone can make a statement and try to be sincere about it; if it's utter tom foolery there is no point in becoming involved. If someone claimed that gravity wasn't real, I wouldn't get pissed off at them; I'd just dismiss the comment. Same thing here.
 
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Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

JMJ said:
The problem is the shortsightedness of the people who never question the public school system with the same harshness as the Catholic schools. There is essentially no incentive to sue a public school, and no reason, at all, to believe they are now safer or where ever safer than Catholic schools.

I understand that abuse occurred and it was bad, and there still is some abuse. I realize that even with the new system in Catholics schools, the system still isn't perfect. What about the new system in public schools? Oh, there isn't one...
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Maybe people don't sue schools because teachers do not band together in solidarity to protect child molesters. Doesn't it bother you even a little bit that only 3% of priests accused of child molestation have been convicted? Why do you think that is? Luck? The power of religion? Money? The big guy's invisible hand?
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

Hatuey said:
Okay, I'm not even sure how to spell this out for the methodologically ignorant: The studies conducted regard reported abuses. Do you know what that means? It doesn't mean that those were the only abuses that happened. It means that those are reported cases. Now to people who know how to read, that doesn't mean that this is how often abuse happens. It means that that is how many have been reported. As sexual abuse is one of the most under reported crimes, there is even less reason to conclude that only 4% of priests have actually abused kids. That last little bit? Yeah, both your articles make what I have said explicitly clear.
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Let me spell this out for you, Einstein. The reporting involving the Catholic church is no more under reported than the reporting involving any other organization.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

Hatuey said:
Eyo cookie, you following me around or what? You seem to like being smacked around upstairs and then reporting people. Still blowing CC's e-nuts for that admin position? Or did they finally tell you no? Never mind. Lolz "the dark side".
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Actually, I have NEVER reported a post for flaming me or anyone else. That's the truth but I'm aware you're not familiar with the concept so you might want to look it up in a dictionary.
 
Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

Hatuey said:
Maybe people don't sue schools because teachers do not band together in solidarity to protect child molesters. Doesn't it bother you even a little bit that only 3% of priests accused of child molestation have been convicted? Why do you think that is? Luck? The power of religion? Money? The big guy's invisible hand?
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The Wiki seems to make your statistics questionable... as, at least 72% have been investigated as at least somewhat substantiated. Whatever happened from there is likely to be more legally complex.

You think that it isn't easier for an administrator to just have a teacher quit than have some huge scandal?
 
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Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayca

Ikari said:
I think you misunderstood. I said the comment is not inflammatory because it's worthless. Someone (and given enough people, you'll surely find at least one) may make the statement earnestly, but it's obviously false and cannot be supported by statistic. There's no reason to give such utter foolishness consideration, much less waste emotional response. It's a child's statement, easily dismissed as such. Just because someone can make a statement and try to be sincere about it; if it's utter tom foolery there is no point in becoming involved. If someone claimed that gravity wasn't real, I wouldn't get pissed off at them; I'd just dismiss the comment. Same thing here.
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Ikari, most inflammatory statements are worthless...often that's what makes them so inflammatory. Take name calling for example. It's worthless, it adds nothing, yet it's certainly inflammatory.
 
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