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FDR's Greatist Blunder

FDR's Greatest Mistakes

  • Total voters
    49
@Scarecrow Akhbar
The main point of the background information was to show that this was Europe’s problem and not America’s problem. If Hitler wanted war with America he would have taken the bait in the north Atlantic but, he refused. Hitler wanted a neo-German Empire pre-WW1. Hitler did not want war with Western civilization, Hitler said, “The blood of every single Englishman is too valuable to shed…our two people belong together racially and traditionally. That is and always has been my aim…”
Japan did not choose to attack the US! Japan was provoked by FDR who followed The McCollum memo point by point (this memo was written to plan to provoke Japan into war).
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Hitler wanted to humble the French and British. To say Hitler didn't want war in the West is ignorant.

Japan CHOSE, of thei own free will, to attack the United States. Period. That America excercised its freedom to dease selling Japan war materials after Japan sank the USS Panay in Manchuria can in no way whatsoever be construed as the US forcing Japan tostart the war. 100% of all blame for the war in the Pacific rests with Japan.
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I'm thanking your post... what is this world coming to?
 
If President Bush was our first Socialist President (per Michael Savage), I think FDR was our first totalitarian dictator. His hatred of free enterprise, military blunders during the war and outrageous assault on personal freedoms makes him one of the worst Presidents who have ever held office. I am thankful his death came in 1945 where he could do no more damage to our nation.
 
peepnklown said:
No, you forgot that in post #63 you asked me to explain, thus I explained.
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I was referring to me mentioning that Hitler only wanted Eastern Europe, and you seemingly trying to correct me on me saying Hitler wanted all of Europe or something. Try some coherency, buddy.

The problems going on in Europe had nothing to do with America. Europe’s problems go back centuries before America was founded. WW1 made this clear to the American people but, sadly the US government had other plans.
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Hitler also was invading countries right and left, including territories without a significant German population. He spelled out in his book that he wanted at least half the continent. To say nothing of the death camps.

The military staffs of the US and British secretly formulated plans to create an incident in the northern Atlantic to provoke German U-boats to attack but, Hitler refused to take the bait. When Japan finally attacked, Hitler had to declare war because of the Tripartite Pact.
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I would love to see an actual internet source on this, if you have one. Regardless though, Hitler could have reneged on the contract. He chose to follow through.

also, if what you say is true, why do you think the US would want war with Germany?



Oh please! Japan followed a similar path as Germany (hegemony ring a bell?).
Japan had no plans to attack America. Japan actually needed America because of our raw materials.
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No, I mean I couldn't make head or tails of what you had typed. Please, please, PLEASE proof read your posts.

And we had no obligation to give or trade them anything. The were a sovereign nation, they had to deal with the consequences of their actions, like invading mainland Asia

Japan only focused on Asia and had no plans to attack America. I should have started with The McCollum memo. The memo provided an eight step plan to provoke Japan into war and FDR followed each step.
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Just because Japan wasn't attacking us, doesn't mean we shouldn't have stopped them.
 
peepnklown said:
@Scarecrow Akhbar
The main point of the background information was to show that this was Europe’s problem and not America’s problem. If Hitler wanted war with America he would have taken the bait in the north Atlantic but, he refused. Hitler wanted a neo-German Empire pre-WW1. Hitler did not want war with Western civilization, Hitler said, “The blood of every single Englishman is too valuable to shed…our two people belong together racially and traditionally. That is and always has been my aim…”
Japan did not choose to attack the US! Japan was provoked by FDR who followed The McCollum memo point by point (this memo was written to plan to provoke Japan into war).
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Why should we have trust in a single word Hitler said?
 
GayLibertarian said:
If President Bush was our first Socialist President (per Michael Savage), I think FDR was our first totalitarian dictator.
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Bush wasn't a Socialist, FDR wasn't a totalitarian dictator. Realize what these things really mean before you accuse people.

His hatred of free enterprise, military blunders during the war and outrageous assault on personal freedoms makes him one of the worst Presidents who have ever held office. I am thankful his death came in 1945 where he could do no more damage to our nation.
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He did some things I disagree with, but he did great things for this country, and if you were to look at things pragmatically instead of through your ideological lenses, you'd see it
 
earthworm said:
Does the possibility exist that your hatred for FDR is even greater than than your hatred of Barack Obama, RonPaulVoter???
I'll give you an "A" for the quantity of lies and a "F" for twisting the truth, so obvious that not even I am falling for it.
And, of course, no "vote".
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I am not fond of hating anybody. But when I see leaders of my country (and your country too) committing horrendous acts that violate its fundamental Constitutional principles and lead to its destruction, I get angry.
 
I'd would say the Japanese interment camps as one of his greatness blunders in the history of America. People were fighting against Hitler who did the same thing with the people he thought were inferior, and we did the same with the Japanese Americans.

That was the stupidest move he could have made in a time of all out war with Japan, and Germany.
 
I do not "hate" FDR, I simply consider him our "First Totalitarian President". His abuses of policy and executive power are well known (outside of liberal, progressive, left-wing universities) where freedom of speech is allowed.

FDR's policies led to lengthening the Great Depression.

Not only did he illegally imprison Japanese Americans, he forcibly returned nearly 3,000,000 Vlasov Russians who were immediately *executed by firing squad* when they were handed back to the NKVD, 1945-46 on the Italian border after the close of the war. FDR was also buddy-buddy with Stalin (who executed nearly 41,000,000 human beings); his administration was pockmarked with Comunists, which "Tail Gunner Joe" McCarthy later shed light on.
 
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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Hitler wanted to humble the French and British. To say Hitler didn't want war in the West is ignorant.

Japan CHOSE, of thei own free will, to attack the United States. Period. That America excercised its freedom to dease selling Japan war materials after Japan sank the USS Panay in Manchuria can in no way whatsoever be construed as the US forcing Japan tostart the war. 100% of all blame for the war in the Pacific rests with Japan.
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Things you won't find in history books...

Hitler had to go to war for the same reason we attacked Iraq, survival Politics. Like Bush, he was probably losing his popularity and wanted to get reelected. Obama is also in the same political mess with Afghanistan and Iran and can't get out.

After FDR cut off their oil supply to punish Japan for their atrocities in China, Hiro Hito had no choice but to go to war. Honor and all that stuff... I don't think it was a conspiracy, just an angry reaction that got out of hand.

That was the first case of deliberate hubris, and we've been stuck with it ever since.

ricksfolly
 
RyrineaHaruno said:
I'd would say the Japanese interment camps as one of his greatness blunders in the history of America. People were fighting against Hitler who did the same thing with the people he thought were inferior, and we did the same with the Japanese Americans.
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You weren't there, so how could you know?

From what I remember about it, it was for the Japs own good, to save them from over-heated patriots who burned down their houses, beat them up, and worse.

Everything came to a head when the Los Angeles skies suddenly came alive with sirens, and search lights...

Of course, creditors were forced to foreclose, so the returning Japs were left out in the cold.

ricksfolly
 
the makeout hobo said:
Well what would you define as "just compensation"?
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Sentimental value would place an arbitrary limit on monetary compensation, which is why the 'public good' does not acknowledge it. Market value, as well as a certain extra % for the inconvenience, is about as good as it can get.
 
ricksfolly said:
You weren't there, so how could you know?

From what I remember about it, it was for the Japs own good, to save them from over-heated patriots who burned down their houses, beat them up, and worse.

Everything came to a head when the Los Angeles skies suddenly came alive with sirens, and search lights...

Of course, creditors were forced to foreclose, so the returning Japs were left out in the cold.

ricksfolly
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It would be a good idea to refrain from using racial epithets in DP...

The way the Japanese-Americans were treated is nothing short of disgraceful. They lost everything they had. They lost their homes, their land, and their farms. Japanese-Americans were the backbone of California's fruit industry prior to WWII and that was all lost. Absolutely disgraceful... And ironically, while Issei were often loyal to Japan (and there would have been a legitimate reason to intern them as they were still Japanese citizens) Nissei were U.S. citizens and by-in-large were loyal to the U.S. Sansei had virtually no affinity for Japan and were loyal to the U.S. as well....
 
ludahai said:
It would be a good idea to refrain from using racial epithets in DP...

The way the Japanese-Americans were treated is nothing short of disgraceful. They lost everything they had. They lost their homes, their land, and their farms. Japanese-Americans were the backbone of California's fruit industry prior to WWII and that was all lost. Absolutely disgraceful... And ironically, while Issei were often loyal to Japan (and there would have been a legitimate reason to intern them as they were still Japanese citizens) Nissei were U.S. citizens and by-in-large were loyal to the U.S. Sansei had virtually no affinity for Japan and were loyal to the U.S. as well....
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Japs is not a racial slur. I didnt know that Japanese had their own race :confused:
 
Morality Games said:
Sentimental value would place an arbitrary limit on monetary compensation, which is why the 'public good' does not acknowledge it. Market value, as well as a certain extra % for the inconvenience, is about as good as it can get.
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But it's not good enough. Offering enough money that people would voluntarily leave is the only fair method.
 
All them are horrible marks on FDR's presidency but the top would be the Japanese, German and Italian interment camps

megaprogman said:
My only problem with eminent domain is when its used to build a walmart or something. If its essential infrastructure, than its probably a good thing.
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Eminent domain is nothing but government theft of private property.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
All them are horrible marks on FDR's presidency but the top would be the Japanese, German and Italian interment camps



Eminent domain is nothing but government theft of private property.
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Amend the constitution if you don't like it
 
the makeout hobo said:
Amend the constitution if you don't like it
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Define "just compensation." I would argue that the only "just compensation" is that which the property owner voluntarily accepts.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
All them are horrible marks on FDR's presidency but the top would be the Japanese, German and Italian interment camps
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Sabotage was a real threat back then, and after he read what Japanese Americans did at Pearl Harbor, disabled all our planes on the ground, FDR had to protect against it.
Naturally the opposing party was against it (apparently still is), but the majority approved, as evidenced by his win win again in 1944.

ricksfolly
 
phattonez said:
Define just compensation. I've pointed out that market value is not just compensation since the property owner values his home more than market value minus the hassle of moving.
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That really depends on the circumstances.

If the TVA is moving hill-billies to land above the high water mark for the new damn, then "just compensation" would be the cost of acquiring equivalent or better land.

The owner of the land where the Rangers Stadium was built should have been paid his asking price for the property, since there was zero public need for a baseball stadium, and hence zero justification for George Bush to have this man's land condemned under eminent domain. If the private company that owned the Rangers wanted to build the stadium there, they should have dealt squarely with the land owners. Instead, in a classic case of abuse of power, the government intervened and stole the property. The courts later determined the owner was paid half the value of the land taken.

There's been some talk of the feds building a highway corridor north from the Texas/Mexico border to Canada through what the Democrats call "fly over country". This will naturally entail MASSIVE land grabs by local and state and federal governments. The land taken from property owners to the actual fencing on the freeway should be paid for at current local market rates, with additional compensation for properties cut into two pieces for loss of access. Furthermore...all confiscated properties that are subsequently used to construct commercial zones around the freeway access points should be valued at their expected worth at the completion of the project when the lots will be parcelled out and auctioned to commercial developers.

In other words, the state should not take more than is needed for the actual project, and the well-connected real-estate developer friends of the policians planning the project should not see a dime's profit from their political connections.
 
ricksfolly said:
Sabotage was a real threat back then, and after he read what Japanese Americans did at Pearl Harbor, disabled all our planes on the ground, FDR had to protect against it.
Naturally the opposing party was against it (apparently still is), but the majority approved, as evidenced by his win win again in 1944.

ricksfolly
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Historical Note:

Pearl Harbor was attacked from the air by carrier based aircraft.

Sabotage was not a real factor in the demage done, only fear of sabotage.

There is no justification for the racist acts against Japanese-American citizens.

There was a valid concern about the possible activities of the German-American Bundts at the outbreak of war. Which isn't to say that those people should have been interned, but they should have been watched as potential spies and sabateurs. As in all things, the Progressives made a mockery of American values and the Constitution.
 
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