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Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

  • Total voters
    154
Fletch said:
But you being fine with a universal curriculum doesn't give you the right to impose that curriculum on your neighbors. But that is exactly what you are doing by defending government schools. If you don't like what your kids are being taught, you should be free to seek education that is more in tune with your values and those you wish to impart upon your children, not herded like cattle into a one-size-fits-all education determined by political hacks and nameless bureaucrats.
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You can. Private schools and home-schooling exist. And if you enroll your child in a public school, get involved and help set the curriculum. Many do.
 
Fletch said:
But you had no counter to my argument, so I think it stands.
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What argument is that? That there is no abnormal? Of course there is. Psychological determinations show this with some. Goals and outcomes show it with others. These are the determinants that I mentioned. Truthfully, I have no desire to participate in a discussion where someone tries to prove that pedophilia and bestiality fit in the same category as homosexuality. That IS where you were going, wasn't it? I've had that discussion plenty of times and it's fairly boring.
 
ernst barkmann said:
well i am not after morals, i am after our schools not teaching the morals of the left or right......government out of the moral power trip
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But no proper education can be free of moral teaching. For example, there is a moral case against tyranny, fascism and communism that must be made in schools. Just as there is a moral argument for the ideals laid out in the Declaration of Independence. I don't think you want your children to receive an education that makes no moral distinction between a free society and a slave state.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Okay, I'll make it even simpler. At what level should government assert influence in education?
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I think you mean, "at what level DO I BELIEVE that government should assert influence in education". Is this correct? Just want to make sure that we know the difference between facts and beliefs, here. I'm SURE you'd want that clarity.
 
Dinner break, guys. Be back in a bit.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I think you mean, "at what level DO I BELIEVE that government should assert influence in education". Is this correct? Just want to make sure that we know the difference between facts and beliefs, here. I'm SURE you'd want that clarity.
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Just answer the damn question...
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
What argument is that? That there is no abnormal? Of course there is. Psychological determinations show this with some. Goals and outcomes show it with others. These are the determinants that I mentioned. Truthfully, I have no desire to participate in a discussion where someone tries to prove that pedophilia and bestiality fit in the same category as homosexuality. That IS where you were going, wasn't it? I've had that discussion plenty of times and it's fairly boring.
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That isn't where I was going, actually. I was simply trying to point out that the standard you used to determine the normalcy of homosexuality was way too broad and would, in fact, serve to make virtually ANY relationship out to be normal.
 
Fletch said:
But no proper education can be free of moral teaching. For example, there is a moral case against tyranny, fascism and communism that must be made in schools. Just as there is a moral argument for the ideals laid out in the Declaration of Independence. I don't think you want your children to receive an education that makes no moral distinction between a free society and a slave state.
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well i mean of a our personal social behavior.
 
AGENT J said:
your post loses and again is destroyed by facts
please continue deflecting and getting owned
so now if you will, in your next post please link/state these facts that support your failed, laughable claims or dodge and lose again

good thing others dont have the same failed logic you do

" im going to yell at my school tomorrow, i dont want them teaching that old math that 2+2=4 when i know it equals five and they better not tell my kid all the left-handed people, redheaded people, blacks and or Catholic people and jewish people are normal!

how dare they!!!!! they are taking sides!!!!"





so true
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that because i did not take a side on the issue..... you did........i didn't need any facts...you never provided any

please continue, your airing our the place in a timely manner
 
ernst barkmann said:
that because i did not take a side on the issue..... you did........i didn't need any facts...you never provided any

please continue, your airing our the place in a timely manner
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another posted LIE, you claimed what CC said isnt true, you fail again, the beating your posts took by muiltiple poster and facts in this thread one of the biggest and funniest all year.THANK YOU


please continue deflecting and getting owned
so now if you will, in your next post please link/state these facts that support your failed, laughable claims or dodge and lose again
good thing others dont have the same failed logic you do
" im going to yell at my school tomorrow, i dont want them teaching that old math that 2+2=4 when i know it equals five and they better not tell my kid all the left-handed people, redheaded people, blacks and or Catholic people and jewish people are normal!
how dare they!!!!! they are taking sides!!!!"
ernst barkmann said:
no ...i presented no facts here
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so true
 
AGENT J said:
another posted LIE, you claimed what CC said isnt true, you fail again, the beating your posts took by muiltiple poster and facts in this thread one of the biggest and funniest all year.THANK YOU


please continue deflecting and getting owned
so now if you will, in your next post please link/state these facts that support your failed, laughable claims or dodge and lose again
good thing others dont have the same failed logic you do
" im going to yell at my school tomorrow, i dont want them teaching that old math that 2+2=4 when i know it equals five and they better not tell my kid all the left-handed people, redheaded people, blacks and or Catholic people and jewish people are normal!
how dare they!!!!! they are taking sides!!!!"

so true
Click to expand...



your welcome......droning for you is fun, isn't it?. .please continue
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Information is information. If there is a class/discussion about sexuality, providing information about homosexuality is appropriate.
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I think he might mean that....all information is...relative? Or rather, what one person's definition of "information" is may differ from another's....
 
Fletch said:
Is homosexuality a "normal adaptive mechanism?" If so, how?

I don't understand how that has anything to do with what we are discussing.
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Homosexuality is a behavioral modification suspending procreation in a part of population. Functionally akin to the suppression of sexual function in eusocial insects or the same naked mole rat, although more flexible: Instead of producing children to compete with kin for limited resources, some individuals focus on "work" - helping to raise children of their siblings. Genes that favor such modification (manifested stochastically or induced by factors of environment, or both) are retained as adaptive, carried via the siblings' progeny.

In a human society, we go beyond biological imperatives, in deciding whether something is good, bad, or neutral. But there's nothing "abnormal" or "unnatural" (or, indeed, unusual, among mammals and birds) in homosexuality.
 
The Mark said:
I think he might mean that....all information is...relative? Or rather, what one person's definition of "information" is may differ from another's....
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Possible, but to be clear, information isn't relative; how and if information is used is relative.
 
Fletch said:
That isn't where I was going, actually. I was simply trying to point out that the standard you used to determine the normalcy of homosexuality was way too broad and would, in fact, serve to make virtually ANY relationship out to be normal.
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The criterion may be broad, but the specifics to meet that criteria are not.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Just answer the damn question...
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I believe that the government's influence on education should stretch as far as providing a clear, universal alternative to private schooling for the population, and should allow for factual information to be imparted without morals and values towards that information.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I believe that the government's influence on education should stretch as far as providing a clear, universal alternative to private schooling for the population, and should allow for factual information to be imparted without morals and values towards that information.
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While that manner of education works well when you are trying to pry in a behavior like homosexuality where the goal is to eliminate any moral or value judgments, it is a horrible to teach history for example. Eliminate morals and values from the conversation and what does the teaching of WWII look like? Cant say the Nazis were bad and we were good because that is a value judgment. Is tyranny a good or bad way of governing? Cant say, that would be a value judgment. The whole issue of human rights would be left untaught since rights are a moral concept in themselves. Or if you were to teach them, countrys that defend rights, like the US, and countrys that suppress them, like North Korea, would have to be viewed in an equal light without any "moral or value judgments" applied. Sorry, but that is not an education.

I could be wrong, but what I think Ernst was getting at is that when you have a school teach that homosexuality is normal, moral behavior, the school is making an argument that runs counter to the moral and value judgments that parents have imparted upon their children. So what you wind up with is a government school, to which most children are forced to go, imparting values that run counter to the values of the people who are forced to attend. The idea that homosexuality is even mentioned in public school is the result of a political agenda, thus a value judgment. So he is right in that respect.
 
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ernst barkmann said:
your welcome......droning for you is fun, isn't it?. .please continue
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please continue deflecting and getting owned

yes droning on the fact you got nthing to support your lies and your post got destroyed is fun.

so now if you will, in your next post please link/state these facts that support your failed, laughable claims or dodge and lose again

good thing others dont have the same failed logic you do
" im going to yell at my school tomorrow, i dont want them teaching that old math that 2+2=4 when i know it equals five and they better not tell my kid all the left-handed people, redheaded people, blacks and or Catholic people and jewish people are normal!
how dare they!!!!! they are taking sides!!!!"
ernst barkmann said:
no ...i presented no facts here
Click to expand...
so true
 
AGENT J said:
please continue deflecting and getting owned

yes droning on the fact you got nthing to support your lies and your post got destroyed is fun.

so now if you will, in your next post please link/state these facts that support your failed, laughable claims or dodge and lose again

good thing others dont have the same failed logic you do
" im going to yell at my school tomorrow, i dont want them teaching that old math that 2+2=4 when i know it equals five and they better not tell my kid all the left-handed people, redheaded people, blacks and or Catholic people and jewish people are normal!
how dare they!!!!! they are taking sides!!!!"

so true
Click to expand...

i am sorry you are not able to determine, that i have not taken a position on whether homosexuality is normal or abnormal....in fact i have been neutral on the subject..........that is a fact i have stated at least 2 to 3 times.

for your info again, i have stated "why you you believe you have the facts, and someone with a different point of view then yours,...are said not to have facts, what leads you to believe only you can have facts, and why should they come before anyone else whom you and others dismiss?

please continue droning
 
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ernst barkmann said:
i am sorry you are not able to determine, that i have not taken a position on whether homosexuality is normal or abnormal....in fact i have been neutral on the subject..........that is a fact i have stated at least 2 to 3 times.

for your info again, i have stated "why you you believe you have the facts, and someone with a different point of view then yours,...are said not to have facts, what leads you to believe only you can have facts, and why should they come before anyone else whom you and others dismiss?

please continue droning
Click to expand...

please continue deflecting and getting owned

so now if you will, in your next post please link/state these facts that support your failed, laughable claims or dodge and lose again

good thing others dont have the same failed logic you do
" im going to yell at my school tomorrow, i dont want them teaching that old math that 2+2=4 when i know it equals five and they better not tell my kid all the left-handed people, redheaded people, blacks and or Catholic people and jewish people are normal!
how dare they!!!!! they are taking sides!!!!"
ernst barkmann said:
no ...i presented no facts here
Click to expand...
so true
 
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