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Gay people are hardwired

Gay people are born/hardwired to be gay

  • I watched the videos, and I agree

    Votes: 6 18.2%

  • I didn't watch the videos, and I agree

    Votes: 13 39.4%

  • I watched the videos, and I disagree

    Votes: 1 3.0%

  • I didn't watch the videos, and I disagree

    Votes: 1 3.0%

  • I still don't know

    Votes: 1 3.0%

  • Don't know, and further don't care

    Votes: 7 21.2%

  • Other (there's always one ....)

    Votes: 4 12.1%
  • Total voters
    33
Rightwingnutjob said:
You clearly define sexual different than I do.



Innate behavior that isn't sexual.



I guess it depends on what you consider sexuality.



It's just a comparison that came to mind. I'm comparing a females chest to sexuality. You can choose to see the comparison or not to see it. Whether you agree or not is another story.

We are. I could say the same about you. We clearly don't agree on what sexuality is.
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Oh lord, will you just let it go already?

It's not what "I think" sexuality is, it is what it is. Do some research and enlighten yourself. These aren't recently established facts. Childhood sexuality has been a topic of academic discussion for a long time now.

You may want to start with this very easy-to-google link:
Child sexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
WHAT?! This is NOT normal. Sure once children hit puberty I'm sure masturbation occurrs. Same with sex play. Unless a child has been abused in some way these are NOT usual behaviors. Are you just yanking my chain (pardon the pun)?
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You are just ignorant and that is not your fault, but if you don't research and increase your knowledge, that is your fault.
 
Orion said:
Oh lord, will you just let it go already?

It's not what "I think" sexuality is, it is what it is. Do some research and enlighten yourself. These aren't recently established facts. Childhood sexuality has been a topic of academic discussion for a long time now.

You may want to start with this very easy-to-google link:
Child sexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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From Wikipedia:
This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.

* It needs additional references or sources for verification. Tagged since December 2008.
* It is in need of attention from an expert on the subject. WikiProject Psychology or the Psychology Portal may be able to help recruit one. Tagged since March 2009.
* It may need copy editing for grammar, style, cohesion, tone or spelling. Tagged since December 2008.
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Rightwingnutjob said:
From Wikipedia:
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Also, I just read that whole article. I found nothing that indicates "sexual" behavior that resembles anything at all like adult sexuality, which was my original thoughts (remember my comparison to a young girls breasts?)
You are just ignorant and that is not your fault, but if you don't research and increase your knowledge, that is your fault.
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According to the article you posted. I was correct when i said childhood masturbation and sexual play are not normal.
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
I found nothing that indicates "sexual" behavior that resembles anything at all like adult sexuality, which was my original thoughts (remember my comparison to a young girls breasts?)
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Can you please get it through your head already?

Childhood sexuality is not like adult sexuality. I have said this TWO TIMES already.

Your original thought was in your mind and your mind only. No one claimed that children are having sex like adults are.
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
Also, I just read that whole article. I found nothing that indicates "sexual" behavior that resembles anything at all like adult sexuality, which was my original thoughts (remember my comparison to a young girls breasts?)


According to the article you posted. I was correct when i said childhood masturbation and sexual play are not normal.
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That's not what these children's medical sites and research say.

Childrens Medical Office -  of North Andover, P.C.
Child Sexual Behaviors: What Is Considered "Normal" Sexual Development and Behavior? | Articles
Masturbation: Your Child: University of Michigan Health System
Masturbation in Young Children | DrGreene.com
 
roguenuke said:
That's not what these children's medical sites and research say.

Childrens Medical Office - *of North Andover, P.C.
Child Sexual Behaviors: What Is Considered "Normal" Sexual Development and Behavior? | Articles
Masturbation: Your Child: University of Michigan Health System
Masturbation in Young Children | DrGreene.com
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Simply touching your 'peepee' is not what I consider to be masturbation. My claim that young children do not masturbate still stands. Maybe I need to specify "masturbate until orgasm"?
Is that what you want.


Orion said:
No one claimed that children are having sex like adults are.
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Children masturbate; children engage in secretive sex play with other children.
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The quote above puts that to rest.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to assert that children had sexuality at a young age while quoting me. I simply said that a 1st grader giving another child an "I <3 you" note didn't really count and that I never felt attracted to anyone until puberty...
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
The quote above puts that to rest.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to assert that children had sexuality at a young age while quoting me. I simply said that a 1st grader giving another child an "I <3 you" note didn't really count and that I never felt attracted to anyone until puberty...
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I'm not sure why you continue to willfully obfuscate points that are simple and clear. It probably has something to do with the fact that you have a hard time accepting child sexuality. That is not really my problem. You can cling to intentional obtuseness all you like and continue to refute clear evidence, but it doesn't make you correct, just willfully ignorant. You are assuming that the child versions of sexuality we are talking about are explicitly referring to similar adult acts. For the last god damn time, they are not the same thing.

You can lead a horse to water...
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
Simply touching your 'peepee' is not what I consider to be masturbation. My claim that young children do not masturbate still stands. Maybe I need to specify "masturbate until orgasm"?
Is that what you want.
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How do you know that toddlers wouldn't masturbate until orgasm, if allowed to physically do so? In fact, that first article said that it is possible that a toddler or slightly older child, can discover orgasm on their own, by accident. Most of the time, we use distraction to discourage masturbation, since it is not acceptable in our society to masturbate in public.

It also says that many children discover orgasm on their own around upper elementary school. Puberty usually hits around junior high/middle school years, possibly later for boys. That means that, at least some prepuberty children do masturbate to orgasm.

It also states that most children won't realize that they aren't the only ones who find masturbation or other sexual stimulations pleasurable. Clues to sexual abuse are more on the lines of if this realization has dawned on them and/or if there are behavior changes or indications that they feel that it is acceptable to have sexual experiences with someone else.
 
roguenuke said:
It also says that many children discover orgasm on their own around upper elementary school. Puberty usually hits around junior high/middle school years, possibly later for boys. That means that, at least some prepuberty children do masturbate to orgasm.

It also states that most children won't realize that they aren't the only ones who find masturbation or other sexual stimulations pleasurable. Clues to sexual abuse are more on the lines of if this realization has dawned on them and/or if there are behavior changes or indications that they feel that it is acceptable to have sexual experiences with someone else.
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I don't think it's possible to orgasm before puberty. I don't care to look it up however. Am I wrong? And I don't believe I ever said I knew they wouldn't if they were physically able. I personally don't believe they would, however.

I personally never had such experiences. Sure I touched my penis as much as the next boy when I was younger. I received no pleasure from it, it was more of an absent minded thing.
 
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Orion said:
You are assuming that the child versions of sexuality we are talking about are explicitly referring to similar adult acts. For the last god damn time, they are not the same thing.

You can lead a horse to water...
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What I'm saying and what I have said is children do NOT have sexuality like adults. I understand what you are saying and for the most part I think I agree. Things I don't agree on are children don't masturbate 'til orgasm until puberty. I never said that children had NO sexuality (I don't think I did, but I'm not going back to look) simply that it was NOTHING like the adult version of sexuality.

You can lead a horse to water...
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True enough.
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
I don't think it's possible to orgasm before puberty. I don't care to look it up however. Am I wrong? And I don't believe I ever said I knew they wouldn't if they were physically able. I personally don't believe they would, however.

I personally never had such experiences. Sure I touched my penis as much as the next boy when I was younger. I received no pleasure from it, it was more of an absent minded thing.
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According to those articles I posted, it is possible. And according to those doctors and researchers, it is pleasurable, for most children, when they touch themselves.
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
What I'm saying and what I have said is children do NOT have sexuality like adults. I understand what you are saying and for the most part I think I agree. Things I don't agree on are children don't masturbate 'til orgasm until puberty. I never said that children had NO sexuality (I don't think I did, but I'm not going back to look) simply that it was NOTHING like the adult version of sexuality.
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Definition of masturbation: manual stimulation of the genital organs (of yourself or another) for sexual pleasure.

Orgasm is not a pre-requisite for masturbation. Children gratify themselves and explore their own bodies as well as the bodies of one another. Just because they lack the physical apparatus and adult level of understanding does not mean they lack a base sense of sexuality. They simply don't have the terms with which to identify it, or the intense drives that will be developed later on.

I think you are too busy being outraged at the idea that children masturbate to really listen to reason. The point of this discussion is not to sexually objectify children because our society has determined that's wrong; we are simply talking about psychology and the nature of child behavior. Sexuality is definitely part of that, even if rudimentary.
 
Goshin said:
No gay gene has been found, and it has been looked for.

No proof has been offered of any intrinsic physiological difference, present at birth, that distinguishes gay from straight consistently.

Experts in the field are divided in their opinions on causes.

We have Orion, who is homosexual, rightfully noting that that any attempt to say "all gay people are gay because of this one cause" is to ignore a massive amount of individual variation, and to ignore that individuals have the capacity to choose or change in at least some cases. I agree. Pointing to any one thing and saying "this is the source of the gayness" is probably ridiculous.
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But Orion also made that very UN PC comment about people who "look" gay. Keep that in mind.
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
I'm pretty sure that doesn't count. That's more of a thing where children want to be 'grown-up'.
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I know that when I was in elementary school I liked both males&females and enjoyed holding hands with both sexes(sp?) very much:)
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
I'm pretty sure children aren't sexually attracted to eachother. Evolutionary there would be no reason for it and I certainly didn't experience it as a child. Sure, I could tell which kids looked more like tree stump than an actual human being but I don't consider that sexuality. If by underdeveloped you mean not yet present or noticed or acted upon, sure I'll agree with you.
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So you never felt tingling feelings towards a parent as a small child? I sure did for my Dad. Not for my mother but I was pretty much in love with my Dad.
 
Kali said:
So you never felt tingling feelings towards a parent as a small child? I sure did for my Dad. Not for my mother but I was pretty much in love with my Dad.
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I'm not sure I would consider love for one's parent sexuality. I'm not saying it's not part of a developing sexuality albeit in a round-a-bout way, though. I've always cared for both my parents. I was truly blessed to have such great parents.
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
WHAT?! This is NOT normal.
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Yes it is.

Sure once children hit puberty I'm sure masturbation occurrs. Same with sex play.
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No. Toddlers. Preschoolers. Early elementary-schoolers. Then there's often a latency period for a few years, until puberty.

Unless a child has been abused in some way these are NOT usual behaviors.
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Yes, they are usual behaviors. Symptoms of abuse are markedly different.

Are you just yanking my chain (pardon the pun)?
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I'd never do that.
I get that the concept freaks you out, but really, I'm not trying to. :)
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
I don't think it's possible to orgasm before puberty. I don't care to look it up however. Am I wrong? And I don't believe I ever said I knew they wouldn't if they were physically able. I personally don't believe they would, however.

I personally never had such experiences. Sure I touched my penis as much as the next boy when I was younger. I received no pleasure from it, it was more of an absent minded thing.
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I think it's possible for females to masturbate to orgasm- some sort of orgasm- at a very young age.
Although I personally did not have an intentional orgasm until I was 20, I have many female friends who claim to have had their first orgasm at five or six.

:shrug:

These are women I trust; if they say it's so, it's so. They've got no reason to lie about it.

Although males do not of course produce sperm until puberty, I would not be surprised if they were capable of reaching some sort of non-ejaculatory climax before then.
I mean, I don't know for sure; it just seems possible.
 
1069 said:
These are women I trust; if they say it's so, it's so. They've got no reason to lie about it.
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Unfortunately I don;t have the luxury of trusting people who've I've never met regarding people they know. I'm not saying it ain't so, just not sure, yo. (had a rhyme going there and didn't want to spoil it)
 
Rightwingnutjob said:
Unfortunately I don;t have the luxury of trusting people who've I've never met regarding people they know. I'm not saying it ain't so, just not sure, yo. (had a rhyme going there and didn't want to spoil it)
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Well, you could always start a poll about it in the sex and sexuality section.
In fact, I'm pretty sure there's already a thread like that, if not half a dozen of them.
You could always use the search feature and look them up.
 
1069 said:
Well, you could always start a poll about it in the sex and sexuality section.
In fact, I'm pretty sure there's already a thread like that, if not half a dozen of them.
You could always use the search feature and look them up.
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I'm not sure I would find that much more reliable. This is a political site where everyone has their own agenda on issues that most of them have at least somewhat informed opinions on. In addition to the fact that the people attracted to such as site are of a particular sub-sect of the world population, they're also a very small percentage of the world population.
 
Kali said:
So you never felt tingling feelings towards a parent as a small child? I sure did for my Dad. Not for my mother but I was pretty much in love with my Dad.
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Puke, no. Not every little girl has an Oedipus complex.
I didn't have a mom.
I wanted to be my dad, not to @#$! him. :lol:
I don't think I realized until I was about five that me and him were not the same person.
 
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