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Is Taxation Slavery?

Is Taxation Slavery?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 16.7%

  • No

    Votes: 53 73.6%

  • Other (Explain)

    Votes: 7 9.7%
  • Total voters
    72
TurtleDude said:
While that would be nice that's not gonna happen so what do you want that would work? seriously. I agree with most of what you say in theory. I want the death confiscation tax gone or hit every estate with a 55% tax bill since that would get those who want the rich to get soaked should put their money where their mouthes are. I also think the progressive income tax is an improper power grab.
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I prefer apathy since unless that happens the US government will go bankrupt because it can't pay its bills.
 
The_Patriot said:
I prefer apathy since unless that happens the US government will go bankrupt because it can't pay its bills.
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Turtle is right, though. My question used the word "reasonable". What you propose is not reasonable or reality based. It's extreme. What you seem to be saying is that, unless your extreme position is in place, you will be apathetic towards anything else. Consider this. What would be the FIRST step you would take?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Turtle is right, though. My question used the word "reasonable". What you propose is not reasonable or reality based. It's extreme. What you seem to be saying is that, unless your extreme position is in place, you will be apathetic towards anything else. Consider this. What would be the FIRST step you would take?
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The first step I would take is to try every member of the government for treason for failing to uphold their oath. That would be reasonable. Actually, the most reasonable action to take is to be apathetic since the ballot box isn't working. Let the government fail and the states separate.
 
The_Patriot said:
The first step I would take is to try every member of the government for treason for failing to uphold their oath. That would be reasonable. Actually, the most reasonable action to take is to be apathetic since the ballot box isn't working. Let the government fail and the states separate.
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I like your thinking but C2 is correct

lets stick with reality. lets get more judges who take the tenth amendment seriously and strike down the health care bill as violating the tenth amendment as the Supremes held in Lopez and partially in Prinz (striking down the mandate portion of the brady background check bill forcing the states to pay for it)

rule as unconstitutional future power grabs by congress and gradually reign in the unconstitutional power grabs that have already taken place.

strike down the cap and trade nonsense if it is passed-again its clearly improper.

eliminate the death confiscation tax
 
TurtleDude said:
I like your thinking but C2 is correct

lets stick with reality. lets get more judges who take the tenth amendment seriously and strike down the health care bill as violating the tenth amendment as the Supremes held in Lopez and partially in Prinz (striking down the mandate portion of the brady background check bill forcing the states to pay for it)

rule as unconstitutional future power grabs by congress and gradually reign in the unconstitutional power grabs that have already taken place.

strike down the cap and trade nonsense if it is passed-again its clearly improper.

eliminate the death confiscation tax
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The reality is that nothing short of drastic measures will fix the problems. The only realistic solution is to be apathetic and watch the government fall apart.
 
The_Patriot said:
The first step I would take is to try every member of the government for treason for failing to uphold their oath. That would be reasonable. Actually, the most reasonable action to take is to be apathetic since the ballot box isn't working. Let the government fail and the states separate.
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OK... so you don't want to discuss what could actually occur. Good to know.
 
The_Patriot said:
The reality is that nothing short of drastic measures will fix the problems. The only realistic solution is to be apathetic and watch the government fall apart.
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watching things fall apart isn't a very good option though we have plenty of food, and more ammunition
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
OK... so you don't want to discuss what could actually occur. Good to know.
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I actually did discuss what could actually occur. Nothing is going to change, so only realistic alternative is for the government to go bankrupt and collapse.
 
TurtleDude said:
watching things fall apart isn't a very good option though we have plenty of food, and more ammunition
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Neither is turning into a place where you are taxed to death and put into prison for failing to pay taxes with the government reigning supreme.
 
TurtleDude said:
I like your thinking but C2 is correct

lets stick with reality. lets get more judges who take the tenth amendment seriously and strike down the health care bill as violating the tenth amendment as the Supremes held in Lopez and partially in Prinz (striking down the mandate portion of the brady background check bill forcing the states to pay for it)

rule as unconstitutional future power grabs by congress and gradually reign in the unconstitutional power grabs that have already taken place.
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I think some of these things will be difficult because of the "Necessary and Proper" clause. These two things are in direct opposition to each other, and SCOTUS has usually ruled towards the "Necessary and Proper" clause rather than the 10th.

strike down the cap and trade nonsense if it is passed-again its clearly improper.
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I would rather see a different kind of federal management of emissions.

eliminate the death confiscation tax
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Do you mean inheritance tax? If so... you're doing it again. I would agree, though.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I think some of these things will be difficult because of the "Necessary and Proper" clause. These two things are in direct opposition to each other, and SCOTUS has usually ruled towards the "Necessary and Proper" clause rather than the 10th.



I would rather see a different kind of federal management of emissions.



Do you mean inheritance tax? If so... you're doing it again. I would agree, though.
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we have had way too many statist judges on the supreme court

I call it a death confiscation tax because that is what it does. do you know what is the biggest cause of god awful subdivisions where I live?

the death confiscation tax.
 
TurtleDude said:
we have had way too many statist judges on the supreme court
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I'm 100% certain that you and I would disagree on whether this was a good or a bad thing.

I call it a death confiscation tax because that is what it does. do you know what is the biggest cause of god awful subdivisions where I live?

the death confiscation tax.
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What do you mean?
 
Is 100% taxation slavery? Yes and no. You're not being forced to work, but you are denied the fruits of your labor, just like a slave. So you kind of are at 100%, and less and less so at lower rates.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I'm 100% certain that you and I would disagree on whether this was a good or a bad thing.



What do you mean?
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old guy farmers

lots of land

not making much money

old man dies

estate is worth several million since land value has gone way up

children sell farm because they don't have the cash to pay the estate tax since land wasn't generating much income.

big developers buy up land
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I think some of these things will be difficult because of the "Necessary and Proper" clause. These two things are in direct opposition to each other, and SCOTUS has usually ruled towards the "Necessary and Proper" clause rather than the 10th.



I would rather see a different kind of federal management of emissions.



Do you mean inheritance tax? If so... you're doing it again. I would agree, though.
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do you think-as a GENERAL MATTER-we have too much or too little federal government?
 
TurtleDude said:
do you think-as a GENERAL MATTER-we have too much or too little federal government?
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In general, I think we have too much federal government, but only because what we have is, in a lot of cases, inefficient. I have little problem wth the groups, organizations, and departments. IMO, I think that a lot of them tend to be run inefficently, with little streamlining and with little coordination. Similar to a lot of large corporations I've dealt with.
 
"If you dont like paying income taxes, stop making an income." Super, what a smarty! If you don't make income, you are committing suicide. If you have committed suicide, you are no longer a slave. Then "You wont be whipped, beaten or hamstrung by your master
As a slave". There is one exception, however. If you don't make income by working, in America, you can force the government to force for you. Then, master, you don't even have to whip, beat, or hamstrung anyone but enjoy a tax free monthly income-the welfare check. Who said such life is not better than that of the slave owners in the old time?
 
TurtleDude said:
old guy farmers

lots of land

not making much money

old man dies

estate is worth several million since land value has gone way up

children sell farm because they don't have the cash to pay the estate tax since land wasn't generating much income.

big developers buy up land
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Inheritance taxes disgust me.
 
Is taxation slavery? It depends. If tax money is used for public safety and well being, it is not. If it is used for "rescuing" someone who does not have to work but just stays at home to pop bustards, or if it is used to pay someone who works 1/3 of a "job" but gets full time pay, you bet it is salvery.
 
Okay here is a response to whoever (I forgot).

Private Charity vs the Welfare State | P.a.p.-Blog, Human Rights Etc.

From the article/blog: " Private charitable giving to the poor, defined in narrow terms, runs in the range of $10 to $15 billion a year [in the U.S.], and few observers believe that this sum is capable of significant augmentation in the short run, regardless of government policy. Tyler Cowen (source)"

"Private charities 10 to 15 billion per year." Compare that to government aid.

That's a start. Sorry if it took so long but my posts are usually worth waiting for.

A quote from an internet social darwinist: "Charity is itself a selfish act. There is no true altruism that Ayn Rand has so much contempt for."

Of course you will probably kill the messenger.
 
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private charity doesn't result in government power increasing. "government charity" is designed to buy the votes of the dependent and to empower those who promise more government expansion and spending.
 
TurtleDude said:
private charity doesn't result in government power increasing. "government charity" is designed to buy the votes of the dependent and to empower those who promise more government expansion and spending.
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That's the way a representative government works. You vote for the people who you believe will make your life better and the people you agree with.

I am sure you will change your mind about it if the republicans gain a majority in the congress, again.

However that will do them no good because we now have a super majority factor to deal with because of the republicans abusing the filibuster. This will come back to haunt them. Karma's a bitch.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
Okay here is a response to whoever (I forgot).

Private Charity vs the Welfare State | P.a.p.-Blog, Human Rights Etc.

From the article/blog: " Private charitable giving to the poor, defined in narrow terms, runs in the range of $10 to $15 billion a year [in the U.S.], and few observers believe that this sum is capable of significant augmentation in the short run, regardless of government policy. Tyler Cowen (source)"

"Private charities 10 to 15 billion per year." Compare that to government aid.

That's a start. Sorry if it took so long but my posts are usually worth waiting for.

A quote from an internet social darwinist: "Charity is itself a selfish act. There is no true altruism that Ayn Rand has so much contempt for."

Of course you will probably kill the messenger.
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Your source is out of date by about 10 years. The paper was written in 2000 and uses cites from 1980 and earlier. Newer statistics show the following: According to Giving USA, American giving reach a record high in 2007, with donations totaling $314-billion. Giving has since dropped by 2% to $308 billion in 2008.2 Link Keep in mind that taxes and inflation went up so people had less money to spend due to the recession. There was also changes in the law regarding how much a person could donate to a charity and get a deduction. The federal government spent 415.21 billion dollars in 2007 and 485.96 billion dollars in 2008. Link
 
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The_Patriot said:
Your source is out of date by about 10 years. The paper was written in 2000 and uses cites from 1980 and earlier. Newer statistics show the following: According to Giving USA, American giving reach a record high in 2007, with donations totaling $314-billion. Giving has since dropped by 2% to $308 billion in 2008.2 Link Keep in mind that taxes and inflation went up so people had less money to spend due to the recession. There was also changes in the law regarding how much a person could donate to a charity and get a deduction. The federal government spent 415.21 billion dollars in 2007 and 485.96 billion dollars in 2008. Link
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Ok, that's cool..

Charitable contributions are a little less than half. What would happen to people without the other half?

Also the government helps private charities with tax write offs which I have no complaints about.

However, there are charitable organizations, such as Pat Robertson of the Christian Coalition who became billionaires of of non profit ventures. People who profit too much from charity often claim that God is blessing them for their good work.
 
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